How to deal with a friend who thinks COVID 19 is a hoax

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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henry quirk
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Re: B

Post by henry quirk »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:42 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 pm Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

the hell you say!
No one is forcing you to do it. Funny how your 'every man is an island free to do as he pleases' stance only applies when it suits you.
not about me...I'm not a doc

will docs be forced to assist?
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henry quirk
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Re: B

Post by henry quirk »

Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:46 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 pm Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

the hell you say!
Yes, I have seen statistics show most people in favour of doctor assisted dying . It is not always needed of course as many people die peacefully, quickly, and not too painfully.
I've seen polls and stats for all kinds of things: one set of polls and stats sez 'muricans overwhelmingly support, for example, socialism while at the same time as an equally reputable set of polls and stats say the opposite

meaningless snapshots; skewed malarky

my view: if you wanna off yourself, do it yourself

no need in muddyin' someone else's soul with it
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: B

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:52 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:42 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 pm Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

the hell you say!
No one is forcing you to do it. Funny how your 'every man is an island free to do as he pleases' stance only applies when it suits you.
not about me...I'm not a doc

will docs be forced to assist?
FFS. Your entire position is illogical, unworkable and just plain ridiculous which is why you never have a valid response to ANYTHING.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: B

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:57 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:46 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 pm Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

the hell you say!
Yes, I have seen statistics show most people in favour of doctor assisted dying . It is not always needed of course as many people die peacefully, quickly, and not too painfully.
I've seen polls and stats for all kinds of things: one set of polls and stats sez 'muricans overwhelmingly support, for example, socialism while at the same time as an equally reputable set of polls and stats say the opposite

meaningless snapshots; skewed malarky

my view: if you wanna off yourself, do it yourself

no need in muddyin' someone else's soul with it
A bit fucking difficult if you are incapacitated or don't have a handy train to walk in front of. Or I suppose there could be a method where you use your head or another part of your body that you can still use to push a button or some other trigger--but the set-up would have to be by someone else. You do realise that the whole ant-choice movement is about the kristian fetish for suffering and belief that the more you suffer the closer you get to jebus don't you?
The irony is that you, the one who obsesses over his 'freedom' (or lack of it thereof), are in agreement with the anti-choicers, whose agenda is solely about control over the lives of every one of us. They too don't care about suicide or illegal abortions. It's the safeness, legality and lack of 'christian' suffering that they have a problem with.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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henry quirk
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Re: B

Post by henry quirk »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:18 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:52 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:42 pm

No one is forcing you to do it. Funny how your 'every man is an island free to do as he pleases' stance only applies when it suits you.
not about me...I'm not a doc

will docs be forced to assist?
FFS. Your entire position is illogical, unworkable and just plain ridiculous which is why you never have a valid response to ANYTHING.
veg, you don't know jack shit about my position (but you comment on it like you do), you can't even answer a simple question (preferrin' instead to poke with a sharp stick)

go, sit in my penalty box with the other keister ache
Last edited by henry quirk on Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: How to deal with a friend who thinks COVID 19 is a hoax

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:02 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:19 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:25 pm

ya, to contain the virus America should have shut down - not for 6 weeks as we did - but for 6 months. We did not, and now will have to go through another shutdown eventually - and a longer one. and the economic cost will be 4 times what it would have been had we done it right the first time last March - shutdown for 6 months. instead we will now be stuck with parital shutdowns via the many states - for the next 2 years!, unlike we have a vacine.

and ya Trump's lack of leadership is to blaime - and why his pole numbers are in the toilet today.
Why lock down at all? When you look at the figures it really does work out to be a very similar death rate to the flu--and the flu is much worse because it kills children. Covid kills mainly old people in rest homes who are at death's door anyway. Why are we shutting down the whole planet to save some old people who could die from a cold? It makes no sense.
I am old , 88 , and although I don't specially want to die right now I am more concerned for my sons in theirs 60s than for myself. I think the pain of bereavement is worse than one's own dying and that is why old people who are near the end of their lives are not sacrificed.
88 and still interested enough in the world to comment on here. I'm impressed.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: B

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:51 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:18 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:52 pm

not about me...I'm not a doc

will docs be forced to assist?
FFS. Your entire position is illogical, unworkable and just plain ridiculous which is why you never have a valid response to ANYTHING.
veg, you don't know jacks shit about my position
I know what you write, which is all need to know.
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henry quirk
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now, back to what's at hand....

Post by henry quirk »

B sez: Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

I sez: the hell you say!

one of the keister aches in my penalty box sez: No one is forcing you to do it. Funny how your 'every man is an island free to do as he pleases' stance only applies when it suits you.

I sez: not about me...I'm not a doc...will docs be forced to assist


will they?

Joe Paraplegic don't wanna live no more

his quality of life is awful

he wants to shuffle off to buffalo, er, I mean, he wants to shuffle off this mortal coil

is anyone obligated to help him do so?

is a physician obligated to help him do so?

should anyone be legally compelled to help old Joe take a dirt nap?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: now, back to what's at hand....

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 am B sez: Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

I sez: the hell you say!

one of the keister aches in my penalty box sez: No one is forcing you to do it. Funny how your 'every man is an island free to do as he pleases' stance only applies when it suits you.

I sez: not about me...I'm not a doc...will docs be forced to assist


will they?

Joe Paraplegic don't wanna live no more

his quality of life is awful

he wants to shuffle off to buffalo, er, I mean, he wants to shuffle off this mortal coil

is anyone obligated to help him do so?

is a physician obligated to help him do so?

should anyone be legally compelled to help old Joe take a dirt nap?
There are plenty of compassionate doctors who would do it and they should be able to do it without having to break the law. If doctors are anti choice then they would need to let their patients know this.
Belinda
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Re: B

Post by Belinda »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:57 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:46 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:35 pm Doctor assisted dying would please most people.

the hell you say!
Yes, I have seen statistics show most people in favour of doctor assisted dying . It is not always needed of course as many people die peacefully, quickly, and not too painfully.
I've seen polls and stats for all kinds of things: one set of polls and stats sez 'muricans overwhelmingly support, for example, socialism while at the same time as an equally reputable set of polls and stats say the opposite

meaningless snapshots; skewed malarky

my view: if you wanna off yourself, do it yourself

no need in muddyin' someone else's soul with it
Some people do so. The final act of swallowing the poison is done by the clients themselves. As far as I know there is no legal facility for involuntary euthanasia. Possibly that best argument against legalising doctor asssisted dying is as folllows: a terminally ill and helpless patient puts his welfare in the hands of the doctor. the doctor can as a matter of fact, sub rosa, play God and end the sufferer's intractable pain. I had an older friend who as a VAD nurse and educated woman knew this went on in the very respectable hospital where she worked. An eldely geriatrician friend also explained to me this went on and was why he was opposed to legalising doctor assisted dying.

In past times this worked well enough in a lot of cases. Nowadays people generally don't want doctors to be such high status they can decide such matters according to their individual consciences, so significally many people support the legalisation of doctor assisted dying.

I don't know where you source your statistics from, Henry. There is good and bad practice in selection of info sources. I have been trying to put the case for impartiality to Immanuel Can who doesn't seem to get the point.I am sure a trained police detective, or an honest historian would get the point!
Belinda
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Re: B

Post by Belinda »

Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:14 am
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:57 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:46 pm

Some people do so. The final act of swallowing the poison is done by the clients themselves. As far as I know there is no legal facility for involuntary euthanasia. Possibly that best argument against legalising doctor asssisted dying is as folllows: a terminally ill and helpless patient puts his welfare in the hands of the doctor. the doctor can as a matter of fact, sub rosa, play God and end the sufferer's intractable pain. I had an older friend who as a VAD nurse and educated woman knew this went on in the very respectable hospital where she worked. An eldely geriatrician friend also explained to me this went on and was why he was opposed to legalising doctor assisted dying.

In past times this worked well enough in a lot of cases. Nowadays people generally don't want doctors to be such high status they can decide such matters according to their individual consciences, so significally many people support the legalisation of doctor assisted dying.

I don't know where you source your statistics from, Henry. There is good and bad practice in selection of info sources. I have been trying to put the case for impartiality to Immanuel Can who doesn't seem to get the point.I am sure a trained police detective, or an honest historian would get the point!

"Muddying someone else's soul" is especially interesting moral question. There is plenty of folk knowledge that deals with this problem. One that comes to mind is 'You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs'. Another is 'I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden.'
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henry quirk
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B

Post by henry quirk »

I ask a simple question: should a doc be obligated or compelled to assist in suicide?

ain't got a straight answer yet
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Lacewing
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Re: Whatever the title should be

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:16 pm I ask a simple question: should a doc be obligated or compelled to assist in suicide?

ain't got a straight answer yet
No. But they should be FREE to.

We euthanize suffering animals.
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:57 pm I've seen polls and stats for all kinds of things...

meaningless snapshots; skewed malarky
Simple question: Do you think your sources are LESS skewed malarky?

You know... all that you perpetuate... and all that you use to make and justify your claims. Not skewed? Not malarky?
Impenitent
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Re: How to deal with a friend who thinks COVID 19 is a hoax

Post by Impenitent »

swear to do no harm... unless you're harming a fetus or ending a "less than productive" or "less than pleasurable" human life...

just think of all the money saved by the government

-Imp
Belinda
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Re: B

Post by Belinda »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:16 pm I ask a simple question: should a doc be obligated or compelled to assist in suicide?

ain't got a straight answer yet
Henry, at this time some states permit doctor assisted dying , and I understand there must be three doctors who each endorse assisting the individual patient in that way. If the patient has claimed their freedom to die it would at least be odd if any doctor disregarded the law in those states.
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