Happy Birthday America

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Nick_A
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Happy Birthday America

Post by Nick_A »

https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/2016/09/ ... n-keep-it/
“A Republic, If You Can Keep It”
September 8, 2016 by Danna Bell
This post was written by Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Educational Outreach at the Library of Congress.

re-pub-lic

ri-pə-blik

noun

a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

(definition courtesy of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

In anticipation of Constitution Day, our “Sources and Strategies” article in the September 2016 issue of Social Education, the journal of the National Council for the Social Studies, suggested provoking student interest in civic responsibility with an 18th century diary entry. The featured entry was that of James McHenry, written on September 18, 1787.

McHenry was an Irish immigrant who served as an aide to Washington, and later to Lafayette, during the Revolutionary War. He was selected to serve as a delegate to the federal convention (that became known as the “Constitutional Convention”) from Maryland and upon his arrival in Philadelphia began keeping his personal journal. Due to an unexpected illness of his brother, however, McHenry returned home and missed much of the convention—from June 1 to August 4—but the information he included when he was present was quite detailed.

For example, the day after McHenry and the other delegates signed the Constitution and officially adjourned—he recorded the following exchange:

“a lady asked Dr. Franklin

well Doctor what we got

a republic or a monarchy—

A republic replied the Doctor

if you can keep it.

The lady here aluded [sic] to was

Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia”

We suggested sharing this page with students, confirming that they know what a monarchy and a republic are, and then asking them what they think Benjamin Franklin meant by “if you can keep it.”

We then proposed recording student responses and generating a class list of specific behaviors required to maintain a republic, and finally providing students with an opportunity to conduct original research about the Constitutional Convention, the delegates, Eliza Powel, and their understanding of a republic.

If you tried these suggestions, or a variation of them, with your students, please tell us about your experience!
What did Franklin mean by if we can keep it? Is it worth keeping? If we value living as a republic, why can't we do it and find statist slavery to be the better alternative? What do you believe would be necessary for American citizens to do in order to sustain the Republic?

If such ideas are not taught in schools the gradual descent into statist slavery seems inevitable.

HB America even if you are a dying society with no comprehension of what will be lost.
Last edited by Nick_A on Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Some dipshit over the back has an American flag on a flagpole. It had better not be permanent.
Nick_A
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by Nick_A »

For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
commonsense
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by commonsense »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
Rush starts out well enough, but quickly gets bogged down by his loosely appropriate metaphors (e.g. finger, body). If the mission is to preserve the American way of life, then the first priority must be to preserve life. Rush says, no, there are too many restrictions on Americans in response to COVID 19, restrictions designed to preserve life. If these restrictions are getting in the way, then how is the way of living upheld without upholding life?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
I thought it was built on slavery. Silly me.
Nick_A
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by Nick_A »

commonsense wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:31 pm
Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
Rush starts out well enough, but quickly gets bogged down by his loosely appropriate metaphors (e.g. finger, body). If the mission is to preserve the American way of life, then the first priority must be to preserve life. Rush says, no, there are too many restrictions on Americans in response to COVID 19, restrictions designed to preserve life. If these restrictions are getting in the way, then how is the way of living upheld without upholding life?
Two questions:

Would you consider yourself a pacifist or one willing to sacrifice freedom for a promised safety and security.
The mission I propose is shorthand for “securing the conditions necessary to pursue a worthy life.” “A worthy life” is what the founders meant by “happiness” in the Declaration of Independence. The most essential “conditions” are the beliefs and values that must be held by society at large in order that each American can pursue a worthy life. These beliefs and values support the American way of life; hence the short form version of the mission: To “preserve the American way of life.”
Did America offer what was necessary for a worthy life? Did America offer The most essential “conditions”: the beliefs and values that must be held by society at large in order that each American can pursue a worthy life.
Are they worth sacrificing for a promised safety and security?
commonsense
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by commonsense »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:01 am
Two questions:

Would you consider yourself a pacifist or one willing to sacrifice freedom for a promised safety and security.
The mission I propose is shorthand for “securing the conditions necessary to pursue a worthy life.” “A worthy life” is what the founders meant by “happiness” in the Declaration of Independence. The most essential “conditions” are the beliefs and values that must be held by society at large in order that each American can pursue a worthy life. These beliefs and values support the American way of life; hence the short form version of the mission: To “preserve the American way of life.”
Did America offer what was necessary for a worthy life? Did America offer The most essential “conditions”: the beliefs and values that must be held by society at large in order that each American can pursue a worthy life.
Are they worth sacrificing for a promised safety and security?
Before I can go on, I have a few questions about what you posed:

1. Why do you ask what I consider myself to be?

2. By “promised safety and security” are you indicating that safety and security are unrealized?

3. Briefly, what is a worthy life?

4. By “freedom” are you allowing for some restrictions or must it be complete and absolute?

Thank you in advance for your answers.
RickLewis
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by RickLewis »

It is probably a really good idea for all of us British to read more now about the US Constitutional Convention of 1787, and about the kinds of things that were asked and said within it.

The British constitution - which has developed organically over centuries, sometimes changing gradually, sometimes rapidly in response to different crises - is looking pretty out of date, lop-sided and shaky as a result of various innovations of the last 25 years, particularly devolution to national assemblies in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (but not in England). Some bits still work well, others not. Quite a lot of people have been saying we need a constitutional convention to thrash out the sort of structure we want for the future. Nobody so far seems keen to actually get the ball rolling, though.
Nick_A
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by Nick_A »

Commonsense.

First to clarify. Rush didn’t write the article. He just posted Thomas Klingenstein’s article
1. Why do you ask what I consider myself to be?
You raisaed the question of sacrificing freedom as in the covid question. Simone was once a pacifist but her dediction to truth made her realize she was mistaken. So I asked if you consider yourself a pacifist

Give me liberty or give me death. Some prefer death.

Rush starts out well enough, but quickly gets bogged down by his loosely appropriate metaphors (e.g. finger, body). If the mission is to preserve the American way of life, then the first priority must be to preserve life. Rush says, no, there are too many restrictions on Americans in response to COVID 19, restrictions designed to preserve life. If these restrictions are getting in the way, then how is the way of living upheld without upholding life?
2. By “promised safety and security” are you indicating that safety and security are unrealized?
How can they be? In a slave state safety and security are defined by the state. In a free society safety and security require personal voluntary efforts to preserve it. They are being sacrificed for statist slavery
3. Briefly, what is a worthy life?
A worthy life is striving TO BE. A free society believes this human need and provides the “metaxu” futhering this essential need.

A slave state considers the need “to be” as getting in the way of the governments role to tell you what TO DO
4. By “freedom” are you allowing for some restrictions or must it be complete and absolute?
There are two kinds of freedom: inner freedom and outer freedom. Inner freedom is striving to be free of negative emotions, fears, and inhibitions, which keep a person in inner slavery and impossible to experience objective conscience. Outer freedom is freedom from the physical effects of mother nature.

Inner freedom is the goal of freedom with the aim TO BE . Statist slavery has the goal of Making people willing to sacrifice freedom by intensifying and directing negative emotions and fears. Then people will accept being told what TO DO.

The two goals of society: TO BE and TO DO. Can they ever be reconciled? Maybe in several hundred years but we have too much arguing to do first
commonsense
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by commonsense »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:01 am
Would you consider yourself a pacifist or one willing to sacrifice freedom for a promised safety and security.
I am a pacifist and a killer. I sacrificed my freedom for the safety and security of others.

Nick_A wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:01 am
Did America offer what was necessary for a worthy life? Did America offer The most essential “conditions”: the beliefs and values that must be held by society at large in order that each American can pursue a worthy life.
Are they worth sacrificing for a promised safety and security?
America was founded on essential beliefs and values that encouraged its people to live worthy lives. There’s nothing worth sacrificing your beliefs and values for except for stronger beliefs and values.
gaffo
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by gaffo »

Nick_A wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:59 am https://blogs.loc.gov/teachers/2016/09/ ... n-keep-it/
“A Republic, If You Can Keep It”
September 8, 2016 by Danna Bell
This post was written by Lee Ann Potter, the Director of Educational Outreach at the Library of Congress.

re-pub-lic

ri-pə-blik

noun

a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

(definition courtesy of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

In anticipation of Constitution Day, our “Sources and Strategies” article in the September 2016 issue of Social Education, the journal of the National Council for the Social Studies, suggested provoking student interest in civic responsibility with an 18th century diary entry. The featured entry was that of James McHenry, written on September 18, 1787.

McHenry was an Irish immigrant who served as an aide to Washington, and later to Lafayette, during the Revolutionary War. He was selected to serve as a delegate to the federal convention (that became known as the “Constitutional Convention”) from Maryland and upon his arrival in Philadelphia began keeping his personal journal. Due to an unexpected illness of his brother, however, McHenry returned home and missed much of the convention—from June 1 to August 4—but the information he included when he was present was quite detailed.

For example, the day after McHenry and the other delegates signed the Constitution and officially adjourned—he recorded the following exchange:

“a lady asked Dr. Franklin

well Doctor what we got

a republic or a monarchy—

A republic replied the Doctor

if you can keep it.

The lady here aluded [sic] to was

Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia”

We suggested sharing this page with students, confirming that they know what a monarchy and a republic are, and then asking them what they think Benjamin Franklin meant by “if you can keep it.”

We then proposed recording student responses and generating a class list of specific behaviors required to maintain a republic, and finally providing students with an opportunity to conduct original research about the Constitutional Convention, the delegates, Eliza Powel, and their understanding of a republic.

If you tried these suggestions, or a variation of them, with your students, please tell us about your experience!
What did Franklin mean by if we can keep it? Is it worth keeping? If we value living as a republic, why can't we do it and find statist slavery to be the better alternative? What do you believe would be necessary for American citizens to do in order to sustain the Republic?

If such ideas are not taught in schools the gradual descent into statist slavery seems inevitable.

HB America even if you are a dying society with no comprehension of what will be lost.
September 3, 1783 via Treaty of Paris is the birthday of my Nation as a sovereign land.

thanks for playing though.
gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by gaffo »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:29 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
I thought it was built on slavery. Silly me.
Actually - assuming you may be interested in historical fact/over invective toward America - historically speaking Slavery was not very relevant from 1780 to 1840 - ya it was useful for some in the South, but not a cashcow.

Slavery really took off from 1840-1865, not sure why it was not so central to profit prior to 1840 (any historians here on this forum? - educate me please) but is was a minor issue prior to 1840, yes really.

not minor enough to outlaw it via my Constitution, but nonetheless it was not central to economic survival for the colonies, and the northern 1/2 allowed it to remain unified to the 1/2 southern half against the commen enemy


BTW just curious, when did New Zealand become fully independant from England? same time as Australia or a little latter (Aussies always seemed a little more spunky than Kiwis and so assumed they become independant before you fellows,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


but - school /educate me.

honestly asking here.
gaffo
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by gaffo »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:29 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm For those who still value the principles America was founded upon we have to admit the party is over. I'll post this link for anyone who still remembers. America was a good idea. The people weren't ready for it. Statist slavery here we come.

https://americanmind.org/features/prese ... y-of-life/
I thought it was built on slavery. Silly me.
you do know that the United Kingdom - that includes your nation at that time - had slavery until 1840/41 (only 20 yrs before America).

so note the speck/beam madam.

BTW Portugal was the last nation to outlaw slavery - 1889 - via Brazil (and no Portugal was not Racist (just opportunist), they enslaved and worked to death American Indians from 1500-1700, they just worked them to death and had to import more folks to work the mines - and West Aftricans were there to fill the need).
gaffo
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Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by gaffo »

RickLewis wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:57 pm particularly devolution to national assemblies in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland
yes, as an American ignoramous. i have noted via YT docs that your NI parlement has not conveined in like - how many years now?

why not? i do not understand.

NI parlement building is pretty! does it just stand there empty for the last decade? (i assume there are janitors to keep the building clean at least)

please school me as an ignorant American, what the fuck is the deal with NI parlement not conveining/pretty buidling being empty - for what? 10-15 yrs now?

school me!!!!!!!!!!!!

please, no really school me!!!! i value learning!
commonsense
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Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Happy Birthday America

Post by commonsense »

Gaffo,
If you’d like to ignore the anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, then I suggest using the date the U.S. Constitution was ratified as the birthdate of the country:
9/17/1787.
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