FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:20 pm
Then they are concpetually resolved, their claims are context bounded, and thus they don't amount to a claim the other is false in its own context.
But they DO amount to a claim that the other is false in a universal context!
From the lens of classical logic Time is either absolute or it's relative. It can't be both! Good thing I am not a classical logician. But you are!
It's only fair that I ask of you the same that you ask of Veritas and Henry,
So as per your insistence that demonstrations can resolve factual incompatibility - - either demonstrate that the absoluteness of time is wrong, or the relativity of time is wrong.
Here. Let me refresh your memory.
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:13 am
If your facts don't demonstrate that Vertical Octopus is clearly wrong, then we have a problem because that's pretty much what facts are for, showing what we should hold as true and false.
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:20 pm
IFF Veritas and Henry beleive their moral fact claims are similarly context bounded, then they will stop arguing that there isn't some standard messy context where morality is not fact at all.
Isn't that precisely the point Veritas is making all along?
Asserting the factuality of a claim outside the bounds of its context/system is nonsensical.
It's precisely the problem of asserting the absoluteness of time through the relative lens of GR!
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:20 pm
Also they will accept some rule whereby, in Vertias's case all killing is wrong but only if viewed in such and such a manner, while otherwise revenge killing is ok.
Yes. It's called a reference frame in physics. "objectivity" is only possible IF all observers agree upon some initial values in some abstract reference frame.
That is (as Veritas insists) you have to do your measurements WITHIN a system/framework. Consensus across systems is not possible.
You know this, right? That's why we have legal systems within which we determine "guilt" "crime" "wrongness" and all such stuff.
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:20 pm
Otherwise, they understand the concpet of a fact in the normal way.
Which way is the 'normal way'?!?
Is that the contextual way, or the context-free (universal?) way? Or all the equivocations in between?
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:20 pm
You do as well, when you arent lying to yourself, you believe I am wrong entirely, not that I am wrong in some limited context.
I am sure that you can't explain what you mean by "wrong" beyond some normative ideal that you just never seem to be able to express.