RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:22 am
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:46 am
Rights to what? What do you think anyone has a right to?
Inalienable rights - per written documents are the usual: (usually 3 items - and in order from most basic to less so - IMO)
1. Right to Live (not to be killed by other men)
2. Right to Liberty (note a slave - though a slave had the right of the above - so had a partial inalienble right - the right to live (but still a slave, so denied #2 liberty) - yes there were "slave laws" in the South - from the 1820-1860 (basically animal crualty laws) - and so it was illegal to kill your slave - per the Laws of the land - enforcement? well that is another matter, i doubt they were enforced very often (I don't know, just assuming they were not - but yes there were laws for slavers, and it was illegal to kill or beat beyond measure your slave (as you horse/etc). just sayin here, we (US ahd laws on the matter)
3. Property (Declaration of Ind susbtitutes this with Happiness) - the lowest inalienable right per conventional understanding.
This is what I agree to:
1. It is wrong for anyone to intentionally take the life of another human being (except in defense).
2. It is wrong to interfere in anyone else's life in any way that limits how they choose to live their life.
not always so, per the above, if ones actions threat the life/liberty/etc of others, then they forfeit protection of their same said liberties.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
3. It is wrong to seek anything one has not acquired by producing it themselves or purchasing it with what they have produced in willing exchange with other producers.
No one's life, freedom, or property is in any danger from those who live by these principles.
This is what is disagree with:
1. That anyone is obligated to provide anyone else with protection of their life.
agreed.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
2. That anyone is obligated to prevent others form oppressing others.
dissagree, as an Arian blond nordic via my "blood", i would have been "Safe" - had i been born 70 yrs earlier and in Germany.
My conscience would be the same - and so seeing Jews being rounded up via cattlecars for "re-location" (ya sure relocated - of course to the next life - not to lands beyond). what's left is would i play pussy and look the other way? (I probably would have - being honest with myself and lack of true character - knowing right from wrong, but too pussy to put my life on the line) or do right?
so, no i disagree with the concept that one does not have the moral obligation to stop thugs oppressing others when one is a witness to injustice.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
3. That anyone is obligated to provide protection of anyone else's property.
agreed.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
The problem with the idea of rights is they imply one has a claim on what they have not earned or produced themselves, just because they exist,
existance is the primary right - not granted by any men. that of life.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
which automatically means someone else is supposed to provide them.
the right to live/be alive/to exist, is a right outside of any men claiming otherwise - men do not give life, only remove it.
only "God/s" give life.
and so, no, no "Someone" "gives" life to anyone.
plenty of someones line up to take it though.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
The concept of rights is self-contradictory.
how so?
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
You cannot demand that one's life, freedom, and property be protected by violating individual's life, freedom, and property to provide that protection.
?? I don't follow.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
If that protection is to be provided by a government,
the argument - 3 -centuries now - is that inalienable rights are outside of any Government!
I'm not sure of 2 of the 3 primary rights per that, but the 1st - right to be alive is for sure outside of gov, gov is not god/s, did not create life nor me. of course gov (or even me myself - via suicide) can end the same said life, but that is for another discussion.
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:25 pm
someone is going to have to pay for it, whether they choose to or not.
I don't get you Sir!
what do you mean about "paying for inalienable rights?
????........??.......................?????
....................................................................?
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:46 am
There'll just be another one, and probably worse, to take its place. Government is like fungus, ubiquitous and impossible to extirpate. Just keep it out of your own life and house.
ya, sadly power corrupts even though in the ideal - a goverment that governs by consent of the governed - even in the ideal there must be an informed puplic that is educated and gives a shit.
and sadly there is not.