Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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seeds
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Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by seeds »

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Now I realize that there aren’t many Christians or Muslims participating in this forum, nevertheless, perhaps some lurkers might chime in.

The question I am going to pose by way of a thought experiment is primarily based on the Christian belief that many (indeed, most) humans are going to end up in a literal hell of torture and suffering after death.

With that in mind, the question is: would you, Christian or Muslim,...

(or anyone else who believes in the existence of the heaven/hell scenario)

...be willing to relinquish your eternal life of bliss in heaven if - by reason of some kind of divine law - it would extricate a loved one from an eternity of torture in hell?

In other words,...

(at least in terms of this hypothetical situation)

...if you understood that your sacrifice would forever erase you and your loved one from the “Book Of Life,” would you be willing to do that if it would end the eternal suffering of someone dear to you?

And to extend the question a little further: would you do it for a stranger?
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gaffo
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by gaffo »

seeds wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:27 pm _______

Now I realize that there aren’t many Christians or Muslims participating in this forum, nevertheless, perhaps some lurkers might chime in.

The question I am going to pose by way of a thought experiment is primarily based on the Christian belief that many (indeed, most) humans are going to end up in a literal hell of torture and suffering after death.

With that in mind, the question is: would you, Christian or Muslim,...

(or anyone else who believes in the existence of the heaven/hell scenario)

...be willing to relinquish your eternal life of bliss in heaven if - by reason of some kind of divine law - it would extricate a loved one from an eternity of torture in hell?

In other words,...

(at least in terms of this hypothetical situation)

...if you understood that your sacrifice would forever erase you and your loved one from the “Book Of Life,” would you be willing to do that if it would end the eternal suffering of someone dear to you?

And to extend the question a little further: would you do it for a stranger?
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not a Christian, so not my place to reply. sorry for reply.

will have my 2-cent upon the view of Hell if you are interested, your invitation did not include me as an Atheist so will not say more on this matter until i'm invited by you.

per your post - fully wise and i commend your understanding of "hell" and sacrifice for those finding themselves dead and in the other place.

worthy/thoughful post Sir.
seeds
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by seeds »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:17 pm not a Christian, so not my place to reply. sorry for reply.

will have my 2-cent upon the view of Hell if you are interested, your invitation did not include me as an Atheist so will not say more on this matter until i'm invited by you.

per your post - fully wise and i commend your understanding of "hell" and sacrifice for those finding themselves dead and in the other place.

worthy/thoughful post Sir.
Thank you, gaffo, and you (just like anyone else) are more than welcome to toss in your 2-cents regarding your view of hell.
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gaffo
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by gaffo »

seeds wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:43 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:17 pm not a Christian, so not my place to reply. sorry for reply.

will have my 2-cent upon the view of Hell if you are interested, your invitation did not include me as an Atheist so will not say more on this matter until i'm invited by you.

per your post - fully wise and i commend your understanding of "hell" and sacrifice for those finding themselves dead and in the other place.

worthy/thoughful post Sir.
Thank you, gaffo, and you (just like anyone else) are more than welcome to toss in your 2-cents regarding your view of hell.
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thanks for the invite Sir!

since you welcomed Atheists (or me at least) - my 2-cents.

I have no problem with Hell as a place to serve a sentence for sins.

but not a place to "live" forever in torment.

I'm fine with a just punishment for sins (in this life) - for correction in the next.

but not FOREVER.

but sadly Apocoplyse of Peter(that the work - i think so but not fully sure) - which affirmed my view of Hell - was not accepted as Conon in "The Bible" so per the Canon, all damned souls (due to being dicks, or just for believing in the wrong god/s - or none of them) - sit in hell, tormented forever due finite evil/wrong acts/or just beleiving in the wrong god as a moral person- F-O-R-E-V-E-R.

that i have a problem with - as i have for 40 yrs now. IMO if there is a Just God (I make assumption that if there is a god he has to be just - not even talking about if there is God), then Hell is a place not of correction/time servered, but simply a place to torchure folks for the amusment of an immoral god/s,

IMO.

I see a valid reason for Hell - to place me in - not due to my Athiesm, but for my immoral actions - and for a time served, i'm ok with serving my sentence for my evil actions, but not ok with not being allow salvation from Hell and excepting Christ/YHWH/Vishu/Zeuss/etc................For sure after still seeing "i'm alive" after my death as an Athiest, it would be clear to me that i was wrong in my Athiesm and would become a "beleiver" upon finding myself in hell.

so again i have no prob with serving a just sentence, but not with eternity in Hell.

...............

I think Christians limit their God - Jesus - when they deny me repentance from Hell (and they do limit Jesus "love").....I make no claime on Jesus nor YHWH or any other Gods i deny them all in this life, just saying if they are of love they would allow me to repent from Hell - after serving my time - and grant me heaven afterward (assuming i would repent in the 3rd secend of an afterlife i find myself in - as an athiest).
Age
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by Age »

The term 'after-life' is in relation to this 'life' here, on earth, in the Universe, after a human body stops breathing, or "living" as some call it.

The term 'after-life' has absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER AT ALL to do with a person after that body stops "living".

'Heaven' and 'hell' are just words in reference to how human beings are living, on earth, in this One (eternal) Universe.

Depending on how adult human beings are behaving or misbehaving, then this influences the 'life' 'after' they go, when their bodies stop "living", and how their children, which who are really part of the SAME 'human being' race and how they will be living, for seemingly eternity. Either the actions of adult human being are making 'life', itself, a 'heaven' or a 'hell'.

Human beings have become so egotistical that they have and do interpret the term the 'after-life' in relation to them 'self' only. Surely, it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, no matter what one wants to think or believe, that there is NO other 'life', other than the only one that exists NOW, HERE?

Also, if, as some people believe, a person was going to end up in eternal hell for doing wrong, (in some place), after their body stops "living", then OBVIOUSLY EVERY adult is going there anyway.

'Being condemned to eternal hell' just means that if human beings continue on the way that they have been hitherto, up to the days of when this is being written, then they will be 'condemned to eternal hell'.

However, if they change their ways, and become much better human beings, then 'after' - this very stressful, greedy, war-torn, and pollution-riddled - 'life' ends, then the next or the 'after-life' will be a much better 'life', of a 'heaven' compared to this one.

The 'after-life' can remain more or less as it is now, or it can change, for the better. What human beings do now, results in where they will go, or in what 'life' they will go to, and eternally be in. But again, this happens here in this 'life', on earth, (as it is in 'heaven', or not, depends on if adults what to change for the better or not).
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Dontaskme
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by Dontaskme »

seeds wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:27 pmHere’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:
You're thread topic will have no actual foundation or validity, or place in reality, until you can properly answer the questions ...WHO questions it's reality - and WHO is the believer of such ideas?

Until you can do that with genuine sincerity and honesty, all you are doing is spinning fictional fairy stories from out of the ethers, which is kind of what barking dogs and parrots do all the time.

Also, it might be helpful if you can inform the forum as to whether you yourself have personally ever experienced the existence of HELL. Instead of projecting such ideas onto others as if it is an actual bona-fide legitimate experience that can be known.

And if that is TRUE, can you share your own personal experience by describing what HELL means to you, and what does the actual place of HELL look and feel like?

.
seeds
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by seeds »

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In response to gaffo, Age, and DAM...

According to Wiki:
Wiki wrote: In religion and folklore, Hell is an afterlife location in which evil souls are subjected to punitive suffering, often torture as eternal punishment after death. Religions with a linear divine history often depict hells as eternal destinations, the biggest examples of which are Christianity and Islam...
(Note that according to religious dogma, a hell-bound “evil soul” is anyone who rejects Jesus as their personal savior, or rejects the teachings of Islam.)

The OP question was directed at the Christians and Muslims (or anyone else) who ACTUALLY BELIEVE in the existence of Heaven and Hell as they are often depicted in the ancillary lore of their corresponding religions.

The OP sets-up a very simple premise that asks what one who was lucky enough (pious enough) to make it into Heaven would do if they were given the option of sacrificing their eternal life in Heaven in order to save a loved one who is suffering in Hell.

Unfortunately, all of the contributors to the thread thus far appear to be neither Christians nor Muslims nor anyone who believes in the existence of Hell, and are therefore sidetracking the purpose of the OP with their comments.

Now if someone wants to create a thread where we can all debate the absurdity of Hell, then I will be at the top of the list of those who will offer arguments as to just how ridiculous the idea of Hell actually is, as is depicted in one of my personal illustrations below...

Image

And just in case the dialogue in the caption bubbles is too small or blurry to read, then here is a rundown of what is being said:

Little girl: “Please help me daddy, they’re hurting me! Please daddy, help me!”

Dad: “Sorry punkin, but daddy’s in heaven now and heaven wouldn’t be ‘perfect’ if I had to worry about you....Besides, we told you what would happen if you didn’t believe in ‘our’ concept of God....By the way, how’s your grandma doing?...Oh never mind, why should I care?...I’m in heaven.”

God: “After she has suffered a billion years of unspeakable burning agony, she’ll be sorry she ignored me....I will then continue her torture throughout all eternity....Does anyone doubt the fairness of my judgment?”

1st angel: “Your fairness and mercy are without equal.”

2nd angel: “In the name of love she’s getting exactly what she deserves.”

And, of course, beneath the daughter and the demons is not Satan, but God; the creator and sustainer of all realities - including Hell.

And yes, all of that is utterly ridiculous, yet it is precisely what all of the hellfire and brimstone preachers of Christianity and Islam must accept as being possible if Heaven and Hell are real destinations of the human soul.

Clearly, I am still waiting for a Hell-believing Christian or Muslim to demonstrate the courage of their convictions and chime-in on this subject.
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henry quirk
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by henry quirk »

I agree with gaffo...

I have no problem with Hell as a place to serve a sentence for sins.

...the catholics have such a penalty box: limbo I think they call it.

Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle wrote a couple of novels wherein hell was much like the catholic limbo. You could leave when ready to.

Hell, as last stop, irrevocable end point: nah.
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henry quirk
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by henry quirk »

the catholics have such a penalty box: limbo I think they call it.

I'm wrong.

Limbo is where unbaptized infants go.

Purgatory is the penalty box.
seeds
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by seeds »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:40 pm I agree with gaffo...

I have no problem with Hell as a place to serve a sentence for sins.

...the catholics have such a penalty box: limbo I think they call it.

Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle wrote a couple of novels wherein hell was much like the catholic limbo. You could leave when ready to.

Hell, as last stop, irrevocable end point: nah.
That’s fine, henry.

However, yours and gaffo’s belief does not fit the criteria laid out in the OP.

Just out of curiosity, though, name a few “sins” that you think warrant a stint in Hell.

And while you’re at it, how about describing what you imagine the ontological conditions of Hell might be?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by Dontaskme »

Unfortunately, all of the contributors to the thread thus far appear to be neither Christians nor Muslims nor anyone who believes in the existence of Hell, and are therefore sidetracking the purpose of the OP with their comments.
Ok that’s fair enough.

I can see that humans like to discuss their story telling about ideas that don’t actually exist except as imaginings.

So there’s nothing wrong with this apparent activity...
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henry quirk
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by henry quirk »

Just out of curiosity, though, name a few “sins” that you think warrant a stint in Hell.

There's only one, as I reckon it: deprivin' a person of his life, liberty, or property without just cause.


And while you’re at it, how about describing what you imagine the ontological conditions of Hell might be?

Well, my religion has no hell, but, if I were to drum one up, it would probably be the metaphysical version of the stockade.
seeds
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:58 pm Just out of curiosity, though, name a few “sins” that you think warrant a stint in Hell.
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:26 pm There's only one, as I reckon it: deprivin' a person of his life, liberty, or property without just cause.
Well then, henry, considering the fact that just our particular nation of America - which consists of approximately three hundred and thirty million persons who collectively look the other way as our leaders...

(who are the metaphorical equivalent of a hierarchy of mob bosses running a self-serving crime syndicate, complete with hired thugs and hit men [military personal] who murder whomever the bosses want them to murder)

...deprive the life, liberty, and property of millions of other persons around the world as the rest of us enjoy the bounty of what the mob bosses steal for us...

...then I’m guessing that it’s safe to assume that we are all going to do a good long stint in Hell.

I’m trying to picture the size of that “stockade” you mentioned. :D
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henry quirk
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seeds

Post by henry quirk »

our leaders

We have employees: we ought to treat them as such. When they overstep: fire 'em. When they dis-embed themselves from their job descriptions: fire them. When they commit crime: punish them.


we are all going to do a good long stint in Hell.

Well, as I say, my religion has no hell, but even if there were a hell: there's no collective guilt, only individual responsibility.


I’m trying to picture the size of that “stockade” you mentioned.
B612BB9D-83AB-4D18-83E1-70C774B1121E.jpeg
B612BB9D-83AB-4D18-83E1-70C774B1121E.jpeg (72.07 KiB) Viewed 332 times
couldn't find a shot of a spook in a stockade
Dubious
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Re: Here’s a question for anyone who believes in the existence of HELL:

Post by Dubious »

seeds wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:27 pm
...be willing to relinquish your eternal life of bliss in heaven if - by reason of some kind of divine law - it would extricate a loved one from an eternity of torture in hell?

In other words,...

(at least in terms of this hypothetical situation)

...if you understood that your sacrifice would forever erase you and your loved one from the “Book Of Life,” would you be willing to do that if it would end the eternal suffering of someone dear to you?
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Not at all and not in the least. Assuming god to be a just judge, anyone who by ITS criteria have committed the kind of crimes which deserve hell is not anything one would love in the first place whether it be family, friend or stranger. Screw 'em, let them burn!

That would be my conclusion IF I believed in hell.
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