Portrait of an American Hero

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Impenitent
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Impenitent »

prejudice in the minds of the jury

join the posse boys, we'll lynch 'em back in the name of "progress"

-Imp
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Sculptor
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:00 pm Americans are:
... celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise. Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species.
From: Anonymous letter from UC Berkeley professor concerning BLM/recent events
Public and summary execution are not the correct reward for misogyny, if that were the case then the President of the US would be hanging from a tree.
Gary Childress
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Gary Childress »

I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
Impenitent
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Impenitent »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
president? ask Monica...

how? ask your liberal democrat professors and teachers

god remains dead

utopia

-Imp
Gary Childress
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Gary Childress »

Impenitent wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:31 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
president? ask Monica...

how? ask your liberal democrat professors and teachers

god remains dead

utopia

-Imp
Oh. I see. So it's everyone's fault except the current president's? Or those who voted for him.
commonsense
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by commonsense »

RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:14 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:00 pm Americans are:... celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd.
I don't have a comment about George Floyd as a man, RC. I mean, is it worse if he was a saint than if he was a drugged-out thug? Either way, I don't see that being a criminal warrants one in being killed on the street, as I'm sure you would say too.

What I wonder about is this: have we even established that this was truly a racist crime? Or is that fact merely being deduced from the colours of the relevant participants' skins? If so, that seems entirely incidental...we're born with whatever skin we have.

But did someone hear someone else say, "Let's get the black guy," or something like that? :shock: That seems improbable. But if not, how do we know that the policemen in question had explicitly racial motives? We know that they were incompetent and violent; do we know they were muttering racist slurs as they kneeled on his neck? How many of them were? Were they all racist, or just one? And would they also have kneeled on the neck of a Hispanic, or Chinese or Caucasian man, or even a woman, if he/she had been resisting arrest? How do we know they wouldn't have, since that isn't what actually happened?

Can anybody tell us how we know racism is implicated in the death at all? :shock: So much of our interpretation depends on us knowing for certain that this was a racist crime...

I'm wide open to evidence on that...I just don't know what it is.
How does color matter at all? The point of the quote is, whatever the excuse, there is something dreadfully wrong with a society that kneels in celebration of any individual who broke into a woman's, home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach, terrorized the women in his community, sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being and was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors. It has nothing to do with his race or gender or anything else but the kind of individual he chose to be.

The, "event," that triggered it all is irrelevant to the fact that such an individual could possibly be idolized in what is supposed to be a society that respects human values. It doesn't. It's, "heroes," are now the vilest and lowest of human refuse. Only a racist could be confused about what the true significance here is. If you think it doesn't matter what kind of people are celebrated, that it will have no influence on every child who sees what the adults around him value, so be it.

By the way, I see nothing wrong with resisting arrest. A lot of the founding father's of America, Jews in Nazi Germany, and students in China are heroes for doing just that. Most of the police in America are ex-jocks or ex-military, who live to use force against those who are legally disallowed from defending themselves from their thuggery. I would never defend anything the police did, and the whole idea that one's motive for doing something changes the nature of what they did is absurd. If someone kills someone, whether they hated them or loved them is irrelevant to the fact.
RC, your post here, along with earlier and also that of the anonymous professor, is compelling. Thanks.

I would only add that it looks to me that GF is being held up as an exemplar of a victim rather than celebrated as a hero. However, a victim displayed ought not have a history of such immoral behavior as GF.
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Sculptor
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
Trump is accused of sex with underage girls. Prostitutes are one thing pedophilia is another.

As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
It does not really matter what kind of a man Floyd was. He was slowly and deliberately murdered on the street by a representative of the government charged with a duty of care. This should not happen to a dog.
I can't see why you would want to try to conflate these two things.
Perhaps you had not noticed that Floyd is a representative of a long list of black men killed by police who have up till now got off scot free.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm How in the world did we get to this point?
What it seems we did, Gary, was to trust human nature instead of guarding against the worst of what it can sometimes do. We cut down all the standards, then wondered why there were none. We like to tell ourselves that mankind is naturally good, and social evolution must always move forward, and that ethics are relative anyway. We say being a political leader has nothing to do with whether or not one has been adulterous, embezzled, been sexually predacious, lied, or anything else, so long as the politician in question is "one of us," of "our" party. We hold ourselves and our elected officials to no standard, and we're surprised when the tree we planted bears its fruit.

And we have no genuine heroes, because we will not allow that there are any genuine villains. For where nothing is genuinely good and nothing is genuinely evil, there are none of either. Where there are no objective standards, neither is there any direction of progress. There's just a mess, out of which we find ourselves unable to make any sense.

That's where we are right now.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by RCSaunders »

commonsense wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:28 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:14 pm

I don't have a comment about George Floyd as a man, RC. I mean, is it worse if he was a saint than if he was a drugged-out thug? Either way, I don't see that being a criminal warrants one in being killed on the street, as I'm sure you would say too.

What I wonder about is this: have we even established that this was truly a racist crime? Or is that fact merely being deduced from the colours of the relevant participants' skins? If so, that seems entirely incidental...we're born with whatever skin we have.

But did someone hear someone else say, "Let's get the black guy," or something like that? :shock: That seems improbable. But if not, how do we know that the policemen in question had explicitly racial motives? We know that they were incompetent and violent; do we know they were muttering racist slurs as they kneeled on his neck? How many of them were? Were they all racist, or just one? And would they also have kneeled on the neck of a Hispanic, or Chinese or Caucasian man, or even a woman, if he/she had been resisting arrest? How do we know they wouldn't have, since that isn't what actually happened?

Can anybody tell us how we know racism is implicated in the death at all? :shock: So much of our interpretation depends on us knowing for certain that this was a racist crime...

I'm wide open to evidence on that...I just don't know what it is.
How does color matter at all? The point of the quote is, whatever the excuse, there is something dreadfully wrong with a society that kneels in celebration of any individual who broke into a woman's, home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach, terrorized the women in his community, sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being and was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors. It has nothing to do with his race or gender or anything else but the kind of individual he chose to be.

The, "event," that triggered it all is irrelevant to the fact that such an individual could possibly be idolized in what is supposed to be a society that respects human values. It doesn't. It's, "heroes," are now the vilest and lowest of human refuse. Only a racist could be confused about what the true significance here is. If you think it doesn't matter what kind of people are celebrated, that it will have no influence on every child who sees what the adults around him value, so be it.

By the way, I see nothing wrong with resisting arrest. A lot of the founding father's of America, Jews in Nazi Germany, and students in China are heroes for doing just that. Most of the police in America are ex-jocks or ex-military, who live to use force against those who are legally disallowed from defending themselves from their thuggery. I would never defend anything the police did, and the whole idea that one's motive for doing something changes the nature of what they did is absurd. If someone kills someone, whether they hated them or loved them is irrelevant to the fact.
RC, your post here, along with earlier and also that of the anonymous professor, is compelling. Thanks.

I would only add that it looks to me that GF is being held up as an exemplar of a victim rather than celebrated as a hero. However, a victim displayed ought not have a history of such immoral behavior as GF.
Perhaps not a hero, but at least a martyr for whom Americans are willing to, "take a knee," which is equated to forms of worship. What has bewildered me is all those on this thread who have missed the whole point of the irony of the kind of person chosen to be "celebrated and eulogized." It's not about GF, the individual, at all. If the article is against anything it is against the kind of stupidity that makes the whole rabble-rousing mob behavior and rioting displayed possible.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
Are you sure you are on the right thread? So far you are the only one who has mentioned,"summary execution," or, "misogyny." This thread is meant to be about social irony and cultural degradation, not about any individual or racism.

Of course, if you miss the point, as almost everyone else has, you can write about anything you like, such as, last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for bad breath or inane claims. For the last, perhaps there should be.
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henry quirk
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missin' the point

Post by henry quirk »

Did I?
Gary Childress
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
Trump is accused of sex with underage girls. Prostitutes are one thing pedophilia is another.

As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
It does not really matter what kind of a man Floyd was. He was slowly and deliberately murdered on the street by a representative of the government charged with a duty of care. This should not happen to a dog.
I can't see why you would want to try to conflate these two things.
Perhaps you had not noticed that Floyd is a representative of a long list of black men killed by police who have up till now got off scot free.
I'm not arguing otherwise.
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Sculptor
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:31 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
Are you sure you are on the right thread? So far you are the only one who has mentioned,"summary execution," or, "misogyny." This thread is meant to be about social irony and cultural degradation, not about any individual or racism.

Of course, if you miss the point, as almost everyone else has, you can write about anything you like, such as, last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for bad breath or inane claims. For the last, perhaps there should be.
Allow me to invite you to consider the thread TITLE.
Are you sure you are on the right thread?
And also let me invite you to actually consider what my post was responding to.
Aside from that stop time wasting.
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Sculptor
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:38 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:50 pm I guess if we can elect a president who dates prostitutes and mocks a handicapped person on national TV, then we can worship someone like George Floyd as a martyr. We seem to be pretty messed up. Ugh.

How in the world did we get to this point?
Trump is accused of sex with underage girls. Prostitutes are one thing pedophilia is another.

As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
It does not really matter what kind of a man Floyd was. He was slowly and deliberately murdered on the street by a representative of the government charged with a duty of care. This should not happen to a dog.
I can't see why you would want to try to conflate these two things.
Perhaps you had not noticed that Floyd is a representative of a long list of black men killed by police who have up till now got off scot free.
I'm not arguing otherwise.
This is not related to Trump, though, is it?
Gary Childress
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Re: Portrait of an American Hero

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:55 am
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:38 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm
Trump is accused of sex with underage girls. Prostitutes are one thing pedophilia is another.

As for Floyd - last time I looked public, and summary execution is not a viable sentence for petty crime or claims of misogyny.
It does not really matter what kind of a man Floyd was. He was slowly and deliberately murdered on the street by a representative of the government charged with a duty of care. This should not happen to a dog.
I can't see why you would want to try to conflate these two things.
Perhaps you had not noticed that Floyd is a representative of a long list of black men killed by police who have up till now got off scot free.
I'm not arguing otherwise.
This is not related to Trump, though, is it?
In some senses, I think it is. He is just as morally decadent as any George Floyd. My country seems to be a country that has lost our moral compass.
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