Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

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Greatest I am
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Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL
Impenitent
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Impenitent »

omniscience and free will don't mix...

-Imp
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Dontaskme
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Dontaskme »

Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Both..and yet neither.

Both when His-Story repeats itself...which it does...like now.
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by gaffo »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL
I think Judas lost faith in Jesus as a man that would kick ass and remove the Romans, and eventually chose to sell him out when it looked like he would fail.

he betrayed his friend, so in my book that make him a traitor.

imo.
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

Impenitent wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 8:30 pm omniscience and free will don't mix...

-Imp
Not the issue. Thanks.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 am Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Both..and yet neither.

Both when His-Story repeats itself...which it does...like now.
You break the law of the excluded middle then hint at a secret that only you likely know.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

gaffo wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 3:42 am
Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL
I think Judas lost faith in Jesus as a man that would kick ass and remove the Romans, and eventually chose to sell him out when it looked like he would fail.

he betrayed his friend, so in my book that make him a traitor.

imo.
Traitors do not feel enough remorse to hang themselves.

You missed that Satan did not enter Judas till after Jesus gave him his mission.

If Judas was a traitor, then so were all the other apostles that sat there and said nothing as he left to do his deed for Jesus.

Regards
DL
gaffo
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by gaffo »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm
gaffo wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 3:42 am
Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate.

Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way.

A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker.

Dictionary reference for sop.
Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc.
A conciliatory gift or bribe.

Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan.

If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas.

Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing.

Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh.

Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor?

Regards
DL
I think Judas lost faith in Jesus as a man that would kick ass and remove the Romans, and eventually chose to sell him out when it looked like he would fail.

he betrayed his friend, so in my book that make him a traitor.

imo.
Traitors do not feel enough remorse to hang themselves.
only Matt says this. Luke make so such claim.

i side with Luke on this, Judas did not kill himself. he got his money and lived well off.
Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pmYou missed that Satan did not enter Judas till after Jesus gave him his mission.

which of the 4 gospels said this?

Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm If Judas was a traitor, then so were all the other apostles that sat there and said nothing as he left to do his deed for Jesus.

Regards
DL
we do not know the particulars of, there is no historical record.
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by HexHammer »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?
He was a victim of Jesus's manipulation!
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:12 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm
gaffo wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 3:42 am

I think Judas lost faith in Jesus as a man that would kick ass and remove the Romans, and eventually chose to sell him out when it looked like he would fail.

he betrayed his friend, so in my book that make him a traitor.

imo.
Traitors do not feel enough remorse to hang themselves.
only Matt says this. Luke make so such claim.

i side with Luke on this, Judas did not kill himself. he got his money and lived well off.
Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pmYou missed that Satan did not enter Judas till after Jesus gave him his mission.

which of the 4 gospels said this?

Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm If Judas was a traitor, then so were all the other apostles that sat there and said nothing as he left to do his deed for Jesus.

Regards
DL
we do not know the particulars of, there is no historical record.
Correct. So how do you know Judas lived and was well off?

To your request.
John 13:27 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Regards
DL
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Greatest I am »

HexHammer wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:42 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?
He was a victim of Jesus's manipulation!
I agree.

FTPOV, Jesus was too much of a coward to tell his Temple authorities to bite him when turning himself in.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by HexHammer »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:23 pmFTPOV, Jesus was too much of a coward to tell his Temple authorities to bite him when turning himself in.
Nonsense! To be crucified and "resurrected" was the ultimate trick to fool the naive and gullible that how has echoed for 2k years, he only hung there for 6 h when you LEAST hang there for a week if not months!

A woman visited the tomb with healing salves, everything was arranged!
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by gaffo »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:21 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:12 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm

Traitors do not feel enough remorse to hang themselves.
only Matt says this. Luke make so such claim.

i side with Luke on this, Judas did not kill himself. he got his money and lived well off.
Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pmYou missed that Satan did not enter Judas till after Jesus gave him his mission.

which of the 4 gospels said this?

Greatest I am wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:09 pm If Judas was a traitor, then so were all the other apostles that sat there and said nothing as he left to do his deed for Jesus.

Regards
DL
we do not know the particulars of, there is no historical record.
Correct. So how do you know Judas lived and was well off?

To your request.
John 13:27 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Regards
DL
John is the newest Gospel and so the least accurate per Judas and Jesus - Mark is the oldest and so most accurate.

Judas is mentioned in Luke - where he does not die - and Matt - where he killed himself (Matt and Luke were written at the same time - so its a wash per Juda's fate (but thinking it is more fair that he hanged himself, and less realistic - that he got his pay and lived a long live afterward (so Luke is prob the more accurate).

I ignore John in all things historical - when we have the Synoptics relating the same events, and which were earlier and so more accurate per events on the ground.
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Sculptor »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:56 pm Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?
...

Regards
DL
Judas was set up.
God as an omnipotent being could have stopped him.
God as an omniscient being knew what he was doing.
God the eternal made Judas to perform God's plan.
God used Judas to put the hit on his own son.
Judas was a patsy.
Judas was scapegoated.

God is a right bastard.
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Re: Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:32 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 3:21 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:12 pm

only Matt says this. Luke make so such claim.

i side with Luke on this, Judas did not kill himself. he got his money and lived well off.




which of the 4 gospels said this?




we do not know the particulars of, there is no historical record.
Correct. So how do you know Judas lived and was well off?

To your request.
John 13:27 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, "What you are about to do, do quickly."

Regards
DL
John is the newest Gospel and so the least accurate per Judas and Jesus - Mark is the oldest and so most accurate.

Judas is mentioned in Luke - where he does not die - and Matt - where he killed himself (Matt and Luke were written at the same time - so its a wash per Juda's fate (but thinking it is more fair that he hanged himself, and less realistic - that he got his pay and lived a long live afterward (so Luke is prob the more accurate).

I ignore John in all things historical - when we have the Synoptics relating the same events, and which were earlier and so more accurate per events on the ground.
trusting one "gospel" over another is a series of circular arguments which at heart are nothing more than cherry picking whatever version you FEEL most suits your prejudice.
Earlier is not necessarily more accurate.
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