What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:30 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 am In fact stop being such a pissy little bitch in general, it doesn't help you at all.

piss off, i don't have time for assholes.
He's another PCturd hypocrite. Notice how he uses the female 'bitch'. Misogyny is par for the course with those hypocritical ratbags. And if someone is a 'pissy little bitch' then they were born that way and can't help it, so criticising them is just being a bigoted POS. The pair of them are ageist as well, which is also something that a person can't help, further highlighting their blatant bigotry and hypocrisy. Loathesome critters.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm BTW i do know history and so not an ignorant american. the Ausies and Kewis were central in the Pacific and the Americans may not have won the war against the japs without them.

they fought well and died "well" on my side, i honour them.

sadly too many americans are ignorant of their sacrifice.

Port Morsby and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter, and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
By the time of Hiroshima, Russia had the largest army ever assembled in history over the sea in Manchuria, which they had just taken from the Japs in a few days.
The American historian Zinn shows this as the real reason for the surrender (not the bomb) - the immediate threat of a Russian invasion.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by FlashDangerpants »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:30 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 am In fact stop being such a pissy little bitch in general, it doesn't help you at all.

piss off, i don't have time for assholes.
Quot begging for attention if you can't handle it.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm BTW i do know history and so not an ignorant american. the Ausies and Kewis were central in the Pacific and the Americans may not have won the war against the japs without them.

they fought well and died "well" on my side, i honour them.

sadly too many americans are ignorant of their sacrifice.

Port Morsby and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter,
yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.

Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).

Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.

BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).

per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.

then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.

same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.

the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.

but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.

fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.

and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.

so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.

BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm BTW i do know history and so not an ignorant american. the Ausies and Kewis were central in the Pacific and the Americans may not have won the war against the japs without them.

they fought well and died "well" on my side, i honour them.

sadly too many americans are ignorant of their sacrifice.

Port Morsby and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter,
yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.

Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).

Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.

BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).

per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.

then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.

same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.

the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.

but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.

fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.

and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.

so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.

BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
Russia gave a very big shit actually.
To mobilise the biggest army in history on the other side of Asia was no mean feat. Whist the US was basically bust, tired and weary of island hopping, and in no position to invade on a fight to the last man basis.
The war did not end because of the bomb.
The US had spent $2billion and wanted to test BOTH bombs. They could well have waited for full reports of Hiroshima to reach the Japanese government but chose not to wait. If anything they feared that Japan might surrender to Russia or surrender before they managed to live test bomb design number two. The full results were not known for a long while, as it happened.
Japan feared occupation by Russia and surrendered to the US.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm BTW i do know history and so not an ignorant american. the Ausies and Kewis were central in the Pacific and the Americans may not have won the war against the japs without them.

they fought well and died "well" on my side, i honour them.

sadly too many americans are ignorant of their sacrifice.

Port Morsby and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter, and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
By the time of Hiroshima, Russia had the largest army ever assembled in history over the sea in Manchuria, which they had just taken from the Japs in a few days.
The American historian Zinn shows this as the real reason for the surrender (not the bomb) - the immediate threat of a Russian invasion.
For someone who is supposedly 'anti war' you seem to have a hell of a lot of interest in it. The hypocrisy never ends......
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

BTW France had an army equal to Germany and if she had the will to fight in Sept 39 (when 3/4 of all of Germany's armies were invading Poland) - could have invaded Western Germany, and ended ww2 before it started!

fact

check the strength of the French in 39 wrt to the Germans - the remove 3/4 of the german army.................which is over in Poland - not on the French border....................

facts are clear, French were pussies, they had an army - and 2 months from sept to nov (while Germany was playing thug in Poland) - to set things right.


instead they set thing Reich with they "we are still a free nation bullshit - Vichy" nazi collaborators!


fk the French, they like the Japanese have been able to rest history!!!!!!!!!!!!! - gaslight.

but no, there was almost no French resistance (there was Polish though! - you never hear about that though do you?), Vichy France repesented 3/4 of the French and was fully NAZI. Frech Vichy/Nazi fought Free French from Morroco to Syria - french vichy -solder nazi thugs vs free french non thugs non nazis.....................
the French have most to face up to via HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - and still refuse - for the last 75 yrs (Maybe the Allies should have occupied France? - like they did Germany) - the Germans have a healthy dissrespect for Vichy/nazism...................

oh well, we did not occupy France (to tell you the truth - knowing the French lake of resolve in 39, i personally think Germany - after being defeated as she should have been - should have been granted France).

seriously - when i think of France's pure cowardice and nazism,and that they had equal armed forces in 39 - fuck yes, give France to Germany
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter,
yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.

Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).

Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.

BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).

per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.

then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.

same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.

the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.

but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.

fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.

and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.

so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.

BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
Russia gave a very big shit actually.
To mobilise the biggest army in history on the other side of Asia was no mean feat. Whist the US was basically bust, tired and weary of island hopping, and in no position to invade on a fight to the last man basis.
The war did not end because of the bomb.
The US had spent $2billion and wanted to test BOTH bombs. They could well have waited for full reports of Hiroshima to reach the Japanese government but chose not to wait. If anything they feared that Japan might surrender to Russia or surrender before they managed to live test bomb design number two. The full results were not known for a long while, as it happened.
Japan feared occupation by Russia and surrendered to the US.
you both have a mind and know history so i really do to discuss these thing with you Sir. not sure why you and emanual kant hate each other - that bet you 2 i like both of you - per your posts, i find value.

not to the particular of your post here:

mobizing the russians to syberia by june 45, no big deal.

and they did so.

per america, we are war weary, but not so much as to fear invading Japan itself, we would have invade Japan itself had the bombs not worked.

and no - the death count would have been lower than the conventional wisdom (all civilians with pikes wouid fight to the death) - not so IMO - had we invaded Japan the civilians not being "Samari" would have mostly surrendered, so the 1/2 million death count would have been much lower.


I fully support the first bomb - little boy - the dropping of (I value international law so not killing civilians - droping the bomb outside of the city to show our power would be my prefered )

and YES after the first bomb (the japs had their physics to look over the land, and they said in effect, ya is was an atomic bomb) - i think Japan would have surrendered with just that first bomb given time to process the data (I think we should have given them 2 weel to think it over - and i think they would have surrendered by then).

I think we rushed it! - so ya (you know the world is not B/W......so the per me the first bombing was apt, but not the second - 3 days is not enough time to process (and we had 4 more also!!!!!!)

I'm a nice guy, and think 3 days was too soon for the second bomb (and think those in power knew this too and just were dicks and wanted to see the affects of a pluniom bomb "Drop the second before they can asses the first so we can compare the biological effects" was their thinking IMO).

So ya Fat Man was immoral prior to mid August, and was rushed to see and compare with the first uraniam bomb.

........................

so to clearify, as a self proclaimed moral person, I fine with Little Boy (to save an invasion of Japan) - but not with Fat Man dropped 3 day later.

I'm ok with dropping Fat Man mid August, but think the japs wouid understand little man and would have surrendered prior to mid august and so no need for the second bomb.

-- and yes i do not think i an smarter than those in power at the time, and yes i thing Truman/company did and understood and rushed the second bomb imorally to see the long term effects.

ya its cynical, but i think logic. ;-(
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm BTW i do know history and so not an ignorant american. the Ausies and Kewis were central in the Pacific and the Americans may not have won the war against the japs without them.

they fought well and died "well" on my side, i honour them.

sadly too many americans are ignorant of their sacrifice.

Port Morsby and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWEEHOKcTnA
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter, and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
By the time of Hiroshima, Russia had the largest army ever assembled in history over the sea in Manchuria, which they had just taken from the Japs in a few days.
The American historian Zinn shows this as the real reason for the surrender (not the bomb) - the immediate threat of a Russian invasion.
For someone who is supposedly 'anti war' you seem to have a hell of a lot of interest in it. The hypocrisy never ends......
I don't see a link with being antiwar and knowledge of.

maybe you can school me?

is Scupture antiwar? (I am too BTW)- i have an interest in knowing history (own your enemy - war is the pacifists enemy - no?)

I don't get you madam, you saying we should not know history of war as antiwar persons?

I'm anti war, not a pacifist though - do not speak for sculpture
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

gaffo wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:41 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:55 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter, and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
By the time of Hiroshima, Russia had the largest army ever assembled in history over the sea in Manchuria, which they had just taken from the Japs in a few days.
The American historian Zinn shows this as the real reason for the surrender (not the bomb) - the immediate threat of a Russian invasion.
For someone who is supposedly 'anti war' you seem to have a hell of a lot of interest in it. The hypocrisy never ends......
I don't see a link with being antiwar and knowledge of.

maybe you can school me?

is Scupture antiwar? (I am too BTW)- i have an interest in knowing history (own your enemy - war is the pacifists enemy - no?)

I don't get you madam, you saying we should not know history of war as antiwar persons?

I'm anti war, not a pacifist though - do not speak for sculpture
You aren't anti war. Neither is sculptor. Very few people are. According to mealy mouthed hypocrites like sculptor we are all 'humans' therefore the mere mention of race, culture or Nationality on his part is blatant hypocrisy.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:58 pm BTW France had an army equal to Germany and if she had the will to fight in Sept 39 (when 3/4 of all of Germany's armies were invading Poland) - could have invaded Western Germany, and ended ww2 before it started!
Numbers ain't everything.
With a large proportion guarding the useless Maginot line defences and the rest way to the north border with Belgium, the Germans decided to go through the Ardenne. Should have seen that coming.
Equipment was a factor too. The new Panzers were quick, well equipped, and the crew well trained and motivated.
fact

check the strength of the French in 39 wrt to the Germans - the remove 3/4 of the german army.................which is over in Poland - not on the French border....................

facts are clear, French were pussies, they had an army - and 2 months from sept to nov (while Germany was playing thug in Poland) - to set things right.
I'd not call them that.
They were led by idiots, just like WW1. People who thought field radios were a new newfangled spawn of the devil.



instead they set thing Reich with they "we are still a free nation bullshit - Vichy" nazi collaborators!


fk the French, they like the Japanese have been able to rest history!!!!!!!!!!!!! - gaslight.

but no, there was almost no French resistance (there was Polish though! - you never hear about that though do you?), Vichy France repesented 3/4 of the French and was fully NAZI. Frech Vichy/Nazi fought Free French from Morroco to Syria - french vichy -solder nazi thugs vs free french non thugs non nazis.....................
the French have most to face up to via HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - and still refuse - for the last 75 yrs (Maybe the Allies should have occupied France? - like they did Germany) - the Germans have a healthy dissrespect for Vichy/nazism...................

oh well, we did not occupy France (to tell you the truth - knowing the French lake of resolve in 39, i personally think Germany - after being defeated as she should have been - should have been granted France).

seriously - when i think of France's pure cowardice and nazism,and that they had equal armed forces in 39 - fuck yes, give France to Germany
Nah.
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Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

gaffo wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:31 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:31 pm

yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.

Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).

Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.

BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).

per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.

then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.






no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.

same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.

the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.

but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.

fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).




yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.

and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.

so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.

BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
Russia gave a very big shit actually.
To mobilise the biggest army in history on the other side of Asia was no mean feat. Whist the US was basically bust, tired and weary of island hopping, and in no position to invade on a fight to the last man basis.
The war did not end because of the bomb.
The US had spent $2billion and wanted to test BOTH bombs. They could well have waited for full reports of Hiroshima to reach the Japanese government but chose not to wait. If anything they feared that Japan might surrender to Russia or surrender before they managed to live test bomb design number two. The full results were not known for a long while, as it happened.
Japan feared occupation by Russia and surrendered to the US.
you both have a mind and know history so i really do to discuss these thing with you Sir. not sure why you and emanual kant hate each other - that bet you 2 i like both of you - per your posts, i find value.

not to the particular of your post here:

mobizing the russians to syberia by june 45, no big deal.

and they did so.

per america, we are war weary, but not so much as to fear invading Japan itself, we would have invade Japan itself had the bombs not worked.

and no - the death count would have been lower than the conventional wisdom (all civilians with pikes wouid fight to the death) - not so IMO - had we invaded Japan the civilians not being "Samari" would have mostly surrendered, so the 1/2 million death count would have been much lower.


I fully support the first bomb - little boy - the dropping of (I value international law so not killing civilians - droping the bomb outside of the city to show our power would be my prefered )

and YES after the first bomb (the japs had their physics to look over the land, and they said in effect, ya is was an atomic bomb) - i think Japan would have surrendered with just that first bomb given time to process the data (I think we should have given them 2 weel to think it over - and i think they would have surrendered by then).

I think we rushed it! - so ya (you know the world is not B/W......so the per me the first bombing was apt, but not the second - 3 days is not enough time to process (and we had 4 more also!!!!!!)

I'm a nice guy, and think 3 days was too soon for the second bomb (and think those in power knew this too and just were dicks and wanted to see the affects of a pluniom bomb "Drop the second before they can asses the first so we can compare the biological effects" was their thinking IMO).

So ya Fat Man was immoral prior to mid August, and was rushed to see and compare with the first uraniam bomb.

........................

so to clearify, as a self proclaimed moral person, I fine with Little Boy (to save an invasion of Japan) - but not with Fat Man dropped 3 day later.

I'm ok with dropping Fat Man mid August, but think the japs wouid understand little man and would have surrendered prior to mid august and so no need for the second bomb.

-- and yes i do not think i an smarter than those in power at the time, and yes i thing Truman/company did and understood and rushed the second bomb imorally to see the long term effects.

ya its cynical, but i think logic. ;-(
It's ok, he will never call you the 'r' word because it's 'only the French'. You can say 'fuck the French' to your heart's content.

So, fuck the Chinese. Fuck them for their disgusting and cruel markets, and fuck them for giving the world this revolting virus, even though they knew that this would happen (it's happened multiple times before) but refused to stop their abhorrent practices, and fuck them for stealthily buying the planet over decades, effectively enabling China to hold the world to ransom and make itself above any criticism (or else).
gaffo
Posts: 3488
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:29 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:41 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:55 pm

For someone who is supposedly 'anti war' you seem to have a hell of a lot of interest in it. The hypocrisy never ends......
I don't see a link with being antiwar and knowledge of.

maybe you can school me?

is Scupture antiwar? (I am too BTW)- i have an interest in knowing history (own your enemy - war is the pacifists enemy - no?)

I don't get you madam, you saying we should not know history of war as antiwar persons?

I'm anti war, not a pacifist though - do not speak for sculpture
You aren't anti war. Neither is sculptor. Very few people are. According to mealy mouthed hypocrites like sculptor we are all 'humans' therefore the mere mention of race, culture or Nationality on his part is blatant hypocrisy.
I've noted Scuplture's posts, and though i agree with 1/2 of then, and not the remainder. I know from his posts that he is not a Hypocrite, and so why i like him.
gaffo
Posts: 3488
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:36 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:58 pm BTW France had an army equal to Germany and if she had the will to fight in Sept 39 (when 3/4 of all of Germany's armies were invading Poland) - could have invaded Western Germany, and ended ww2 before it started!
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:36 pm Numbers ain't everything.
actually they are everything.

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:36 pm With a large proportion guarding the useless Maginot line defences and the rest way to the north border with Belgium, the Germans decided to go through the Ardenne. Should have seen that coming.
Equipment was a factor too. The new Panzers were quick, well equipped, and the crew well trained and motivated.

fact



look, you mention the Maginot forts - so i assume you know history. But not into excusing cowards, the cowards - yes they lack leadership (as in ww1) - Franch gov PM's had shelf lifes of weeks - during ww1 and ww2 - so ya their gov as disfunctional.

and yes German's listened to Gedarian (there was a French contemporary - name i forget, those French gov ignored - and has the same mindset as Gaderian's Blitzkeig), and french did not.

but instead of excusing cowardice and incompence, i prefer to look as Historical Facts - on the ground in 1939!!!!!!! - are you willing to do the same?

1. French Army was equal to the German Army
2. French Air Force was not
3. English army was not either
4. English Air Force was equal to the German Air Force
5. France and England allied themselves to themselves by mid 39, so when Poland was invaded - England's weak Army and France's weak Air force were bolstered by their ally - thus as a combined force France/England - per equipent/arms and men - equalled Germany - fully.
6. France did not use her army in Spring of 40 to any effect, they lack resolve to fight when invaded.
7. France/England - more France with the ARMY, could have - and would have ended the war before it started had they actually FOUGHT!!!!!!! - by invading Western Germanyin sept 39!!!!!! France /England and Poland had a mutual security pact/treaty! - so fully legal for France to fucking invade Germany when Poland was illegally invaded by Germany!!!!!!!
8. - ibid 7. France's Army (but not her will to fight - obviously) equalled Germany's - she could have marched toward Berlin when Germany's 3/4 of forces were tied up near Warsaw (IT IS A FACT that only a token German force was on the Western Front from sept39 to Jan/Feb40. France - has she had a will to fight, could have moved into Germany and Hitler would have shit a brick and begged for peace.
9. Instead, France (and England) - SAT THERE - sucking their thumbs - for 9 months, not making the move into Germany when the Germans were tied up taking Poland illegally, but instead just agian SAT THERE - and waited and waited and waited ("pony war" anyone?).......until the Germans - after taking Poland, moved their entire forces to the Western Front.
10. then the above - again - sat there - thumbs up their asses - now waiting for the Germans to attack.
11. German's attacked, France hardly lifted a rifle, and the English were nearly routed in Dunkirk
12. all would have been averted had the French moved into Germany in 39!
13. most of the useless surrender minded French army was NOT on the maginot line, but near Belguim/Holland.
14. I have not respect for the French, they - like the Japanese - have rewritten the historical narative - but i know they are both full of shit, knowing history.
15. I have infinate respect for the Poles - who fought the Germans 10 times moreso - will a lesser army - both per their armies and per "the resistance" (where at least 1/2 of the French were Nazi lovers - unlike the Poles.
16. God bless the Poles, fuck the French.


----------

I will note and grant that in the face of incompetent generals and PMs, France DID FIGHT well, and did the heavy lifting and dying in WW! - more so than the english (which had equally incompetent Generals - though not PM's - I think Lloyd George was a good PM - his generals sucked though) the english died too, but in less numbers and so not the heavy lifting.

America was irrelivant - we toot our horn in that war - but its bullshit - we did little dying - and we entered the war after it was over (in effect).

--
but per ww2 the French were pathetic, and at least 1/3 of them were closet Vichy-Nazi assholes anyway.
gaffo
Posts: 3488
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What is Wrong with me (my malfunction)????

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter,
yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.

Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).

Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.

BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).

per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.

then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.

same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.

the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.

but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.

fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.

and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.

so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.

BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
Russia gave a very big shit actually.
per Japan? no.

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm To mobilise the biggest army in history on the other side of Asia was no mean feat.

Stalin mobalized, only after he won the war in the West. he did not care about fighting Japan, and America needled him to start the fight with the Japs for 2 yrs before he finally did.

as he should (ignore our pleas to attack Japan), per Russia the only relivent issue is the destruction of Germany.

the Russian sloth moved pretty fast after Little Boy though!!!! (coincidence i'm sure)




Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm Whist the US was basically bust, tired and weary of island hopping, and in no position to invade on a fight to the last man basis.
Historical revision on your part Sir.

you assurtions are pure crap and not accurate.

US and USSR had parallel - death-war weary burdens, as well as manufacturing progression.

- yes America was war weary due to island hopping, but at the same time we had increased manufacturing of war machinery unmatched - USSR was a close second (and so why i say their death/manufacturing experience is similar to mine/America's )- USSR died more the rest of us - so do not say my nation paid anything near what they did per the death count - we (Americans) got off easy in the per death count/machine of death manufacturing count).

FACT is Operation Overload was well planned and would have happened if the Atom bombs "did not work"

yep, America, would have invaded by land Japan, and it would have taken 4-6 months - end of the war by Feb 46.

and at less death count than the hysterical view of all civilians become samari, no, with 3-4 week - securing the beaches, the japanese civilians would be like all others civilians and not fight to the death via some sort of oriental samari mindset - instead they would be like normal humans - tired and hungry, and thinking about their kids - and would have surrendered (like anyone else).

I know the death count of the Soviets in ww2 - more than all the rest in ww2 for both sides (and why the Russians would have beat the Germans - without the US getting involved) - only they were willing to pay the price and did - and would have won - even if the rest of us - did nothing and instead sat on our asses while the German Nazis made war all over the plase.


Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The war did not end because of the bomb.

yes it did.

we had the morality for the first one, but not the second.

Japan would have surrendered - given 2 weeks to understand what it was - and then surrender.

WE (America) rushed it to only 3 days (why so? - there was no need, ww2 was won by then).I think out of immoral motives, We (America knew Japan would surrender after understanding the nature of Little boy) rushed the second bomb (Plutonium based - vs Little boy's Uranium) - as a long term population test case for radiation effects,

ya i said it, i think my Nation dropped the second bomb immorally - knowingly and willingly.

and

ya i support the first bomb as valid and enough and moral to end that war. so first bomb needed, second not.




Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm The US had spent $2billion and wanted to test BOTH bombs.
what you talking about Willis?

do you know about Port Chicago?

the Mark 1?

Truk (target of the Mark 1) - 1-2 yrs before Little Boy..................float a boat..............no plane.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm They could well have waited for full reports of Hiroshima to reach the Japanese government but chose not to wait. If anything they feared that Japan might surrender to Russia or surrender before they managed to live test bomb design number two. The full results were not known for a long while, as it happened.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!


as i said prior, i support little Boy, and not Fat man.

after the prior bomb, the Japanese (they had Physcists - and they understood and affirmed it was an atom bomb.

america wanted to drop the second one - to see the differing effects bet Ur and Plutonium (my oppinion).

and so we immorally dropped the second.

--------- as i said before, i affirm 1st bomb - dropping it would have ended the war, and no need for Overload nor the second bomb.

i reject the second bomb as immoral - it was rushed knowingly.



Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm Japan feared occupation by Russia and surrendered to the US.
nonesense, i thought you knew history, but now know you do not.

Japan fought 3 yrs with America - not Russia - and the America kicked Japans ass post Coral Sea - 5-6 battles, all of which America won - from 42-44!!!!!!!!

and you are claiming by 45 Japan was worried about Russia!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol - you full of shit and fake history bubba.
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