Except from the sounds of it, some of those eggs were those of the working class, not just the aristocrats.
Why is nazism popular today?
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
revolutions are messyGary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:31 pmExcept from the sounds of it, some of those eggs were those of the working class, not just the aristocrats.
The power of the symbol is strong. How many Americans signed up for Vietnam, fighting against something they were basically ignorant of.
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Unfortunately, we're talking about Lenin breaking up the worker soviets, not the Vietnam War. You don't have to approve of Lenin in order to be against the Vietnam War.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:35 pmrevolutions are messyGary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:31 pmExcept from the sounds of it, some of those eggs were those of the working class, not just the aristocrats.
The power of the symbol is strong. How many Americans signed up for Vietnam, fighting against something they were basically ignorant of.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
People fight against their own interests.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pmUnfortunately, we're talking about Lenin breaking up the worker soviets, not the Vietnam War. You don't have to approve of Lenin in order to be against the Vietnam War.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:35 pmrevolutions are messyGary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:31 pm
Except from the sounds of it, some of those eggs were those of the working class, not just the aristocrats.
The power of the symbol is strong. How many Americans signed up for Vietnam, fighting against something they were basically ignorant of.
The Vietnamese also did many things contrary to their belief system because of the need to protect their country from foreign invaders.
People even do things against their own stated principles when not under any real threat; this characterises the US supporting a Catholic dictatorship in Vietnam, and murdering thousands of innocent people.
Let's bring that back full circle to Murdoch.
Last edited by Sculptor on Thu May 28, 2020 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Lenin was wrong and the Vietnam war was wrong. How about that?Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:41 pmPeople fight against their own interests.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pmUnfortunately, we're talking about Lenin breaking up the worker soviets, not the Vietnam War. You don't have to approve of Lenin in order to be against the Vietnam War.
The Vietnamese also did many things contrary to their belief system because of the need to protect their country from foreign invaders.
People even do things against their own stated principles when not under any real threat; this characterises the US supporting a Catholic dictatorship in Vietnam, and murdering thousands of innocent people.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:43 pmLenin was wrong and the Vietnam war was wrong. How about that?Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:41 pmPeople fight against their own interests.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pm
Unfortunately, we're talking about Lenin breaking up the worker soviets, not the Vietnam War. You don't have to approve of Lenin in order to be against the Vietnam War.
The Vietnamese also did many things contrary to their belief system because of the need to protect their country from foreign invaders.
People even do things against their own stated principles when not under any real threat; this characterises the US supporting a Catholic dictatorship in Vietnam, and murdering thousands of innocent people.
Let's bring that back full circle to Murdoch.
THere is nothing strange here, except that Murdoch perhaps saw Lenin as a pragmatist willing to do anything for a cause.
The difference is that Murdoch's cause was Murdoch.
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Well, that's probably true.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:44 pmGary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:43 pmLenin was wrong and the Vietnam war was wrong. How about that?Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:41 pm
People fight against their own interests.
The Vietnamese also did many things contrary to their belief system because of the need to protect their country from foreign invaders.
People even do things against their own stated principles when not under any real threat; this characterises the US supporting a Catholic dictatorship in Vietnam, and murdering thousands of innocent people.
Let's bring that back full circle to Murdoch.
THere is nothing strange here, except that Murdoch perhaps saw Lenin as a pragmatist willing to do anything for a cause.
The difference is that Murdoch's cause was Murdoch.
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Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Although reading about the incident between Murdoch and the labor unions in 1986, it does sound like the English press was extremely inefficient and outdated in its methods of operation at the time.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/ ... g-25-years
I suppose Murdoch might say he did what he had to do for a cause, the cause being to bring the news industry up to date in England. In that sense, he might have considered himself doing what was best for the industry and the country or something, along the same lines as Lenin having to make decisions that would affect the fate of so many ordinary people in the Soviet Union. Who knows...
I don't know if it's people or something about the institutions we find ourselves engaging in. But it seems likely (or at least one hopes) that there were ways of bringing about positive change to the news industry without destroying so many people's lives in the process.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/ ... g-25-years
I suppose Murdoch might say he did what he had to do for a cause, the cause being to bring the news industry up to date in England. In that sense, he might have considered himself doing what was best for the industry and the country or something, along the same lines as Lenin having to make decisions that would affect the fate of so many ordinary people in the Soviet Union. Who knows...
I don't know if it's people or something about the institutions we find ourselves engaging in. But it seems likely (or at least one hopes) that there were ways of bringing about positive change to the news industry without destroying so many people's lives in the process.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
Not me! I'd rather escape to the supernaturalist majority.(If they were the majority). There are worse fates than superstition. For me to be superstitious would be for me to regress to what I was, and I could recover lost ground. Silly beliefs may become dangerously fanatical but extreme drug addiction is always lethal.
I admire your authenticity.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
No extreme drug addiction is not always lethal.Belinda wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:07 amNot me! I'd rather escape to the supernaturalist majority. There are worse fates than superstition. For me to be superstitious would be for me to regress to what I was, and I could recover lost ground. Silly beliefs may become dangerously fanatical but extreme drug addiction is always lethal.
But if you succumb to self deception and lies, you might as well be dead.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
That sounds like what Jesus and Socrates did. I agree with you I simply don't know if I could do it. I'd like to hope so.Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:10 amNo extreme drug addiction is not always lethal.Belinda wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:07 amNot me! I'd rather escape to the supernaturalist majority. There are worse fates than superstition. For me to be superstitious would be for me to regress to what I was, and I could recover lost ground. Silly beliefs may become dangerously fanatical but extreme drug addiction is always lethal.
But if you succumb to self deception and lies, you might as well be dead.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
I don't think it is hard.Belinda wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 amThat sounds like what Jesus and Socrates did. I agree with you I simply don't know if I could do it. I'd like to hope so.Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:10 amNo extreme drug addiction is not always lethal.Belinda wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:07 am
Not me! I'd rather escape to the supernaturalist majority. There are worse fates than superstition. For me to be superstitious would be for me to regress to what I was, and I could recover lost ground. Silly beliefs may become dangerously fanatical but extreme drug addiction is always lethal.
But if you succumb to self deception and lies, you might as well be dead.
The trouble is to know exactly when you might have succumb to a lie or other deception without you realising it.
Drugs can be fun, as long as you are smart. I'm not bothered much these days, though. In fact I rarely even touch alcohol. Food is always a lure though!
Given that I've had most drugs at some point, without suffering from addiction, I have to question just how addictive they really are.
Depends on who you are I suppose.
Food is the drug you have to have everyday, so addiction is part of the game.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
the whole Veitnam debacal interests me. ya i know the SV gov was corrupt, but the people i assume preferred it to the NV (some at least). do you much about that war? asking because i do not. other than it was a dumb war. and one to fail in my side.Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:41 pmPeople fight against their own interests.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pmUnfortunately, we're talking about Lenin breaking up the worker soviets, not the Vietnam War. You don't have to approve of Lenin in order to be against the Vietnam War.
The Vietnamese also did many things contrary to their belief system because of the need to protect their country from foreign invaders.
People even do things against their own stated principles when not under any real threat; this characterises the US supporting a Catholic dictatorship in Vietnam, and murdering thousands of innocent people.
Let's bring that back full circle to Murdoch.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
The problem with that is the one's who fall for it don't know they're falling for it. That may be due to stupidity or plain ignorance, mostly the former who are immune to explanation and don't realize they're stupid and so have no reason to wish they were dead. When stupidity becomes a ritual it strives to be intellectual.
Re: Why is nazism popular today?
The question is how to free children and open minded adults from the chains of stupidity to the freedom of reason. Nazism is a case in point. Germany was overrun by Nazis because Germans' minds were enthralled by Nazism . Why this happened as an actual historical event is usually said to be due to the Treaty of Versailles, and largely aided by Hitler's opportunism. The Treaty of Versailles was bad social psychology. Opportunistic politicians are still with us and always will be.Dubious wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:38 amThe problem with that is the one's who fall for it don't know they're falling for it. That may be due to stupidity or plain ignorance, mostly the former who are immune to explanation and don't realize they're stupid and so have no reason to wish they were dead. When stupidity becomes a ritual it strives to be intellectual.