What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 am
Dubious wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:16 am Atheism requires neither wisdom or philosophy. It simply defaults to what history, science and experience proclaim it to be; a universe devoid of god or as we imagine god to be. Atheism openly annuls the illusion of any necessity for any centralized controlling power.
Thanks. :D

So, for you as an atheist, do you see no definition for Wisdom or just leave it at that? (presuming you are one of those heathens!)
He did not say that.
He said that atheism is not defined as, or by any such issue.
Yes, after I wrote it I knew that what not what Dubious was saying. But the context of my question should be taken with relation to the thread title - I asked 'do you see no definition' - since Dubious has not provided a definition for Wisdom.

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pmImagine everything that wisdom refers to, all knowledge the discipline of epistemology, the search for knowledge, then remove god. That is atheism.
Now.
DO the same thing, and remove accountability and reason, - that is theism.
I think you mean, ADD accountability and REMOVE reason?

Reason? No. You arn't going to remove reason from a theist definition of Wisdom - surely!??
Last edited by attofishpi on Mon May 11, 2020 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Gaffo, uwot and Sculptor have come close to at least defining what wisdom is to them - thanks.

Seems it's really a difficult thing to actually define - 'Wisdom'.

Atheists are pretty much interchanging the definition of philosophy with wisdom. Agreed? (apart from you Gaffo - yours has more depth)
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:08 am
commonsense wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 3:39 pm

Nah, you're definitely the former. Are you going to actually address the topic question?
Already did. You should review your thread from the beginning. You’ll find my answers to your questions as well as the many posts that have quoted my comments.

NO. You didn't. The below is ALL you have stated on the question of Wisdom:-
commonsense wrote:When it comes to wisdom, it is not clear to me that there is a difference between wisdom in theism and in atheism.
commonsense wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Please define what Wisdom is to you as an agnostic atheist.
I still don’t understand why you specify agnostic atheist wisdom as distinct from human wisdom.
DUH! THAT IS NOT WHAT IS IN QUESTION.

commonsense wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pmAs for your sarcasm about me as the former, I simply thought you would recognize that I am challenging your assessment of the definitions given for agnosticism so far. I suggest that you pay closer attention to them when doing your review.
I think you are misunderstanding - I was not talking about definitions provided within this thread.

I don't give a flying figtree about discussing AGNOSTICISM!!
You missed one.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 am

Thanks. :D

So, for you as an atheist, do you see no definition for Wisdom or just leave it at that? (presuming you are one of those heathens!)
He did not say that.
He said that atheism is not defined as, or by any such issue.
Yes, after I wrote it I knew that what not what Dubious was saying. But the context of my question should be taken with relation to the thread title - I asked 'do you see no definition' - since Dubious has not provided a definition for Wisdom.

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pmImagine everything that wisdom refers to, all knowledge the discipline of epistemology, the search for knowledge, then remove god. That is atheism.
Now.
DO the same thing, and remove accountability and reason, - that is theism.
I think you mean, ADD accountability and REMOVE reason?
No. I meant what I said. When you adopt the religion of your childhood, or pick one, you hand over accountability to the god-head.
As this is clearly unreasonable, you have to hand over reason at the same time.

Reason? No. You arn't going to remove reason from a theist definition of Wisdom - surely!??
As theism is an unreasonable position, I see no reason to include wisdom in theism.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:15 am What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Gaffo, uwot and Sculptor have come close to at least defining what wisdom is to them - thanks.

Seems it's really a difficult thing to actually define - 'Wisdom'.

Atheists are pretty much interchanging the definition of philosophy with wisdom. Agreed? (apart from you Gaffo - yours has more depth)
Wisdom is the place where reason, knowledge, information and experience come together with age and consideration.
It is a dangerous position to be in, since complacency can result.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

Sculptor wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:27 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:15 am What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Gaffo, uwot and Sculptor have come close to at least defining what wisdom is to them - thanks.

Seems it's really a difficult thing to actually define - 'Wisdom'.

Atheists are pretty much interchanging the definition of philosophy with wisdom. Agreed? (apart from you Gaffo - yours has more depth)
Wisdom is the place where reason, knowledge, information and experience come together with age and consideration.
It is a dangerous position to be in, since complacency can result.
I would define wisdom similarly: wisdom is experience, conceptual thought, memory, reason and intellectual judgement.
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What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pmImagine everything that wisdom refers to, all knowledge the discipline of epistemology, the search for knowledge, then remove god. That is atheism.
Now.
DO the same thing, and remove accountability and reason, - that is theism.
I think you mean, ADD accountability and REMOVE reason?
No. I meant what I said. When you adopt the religion of your childhood, or pick one, you hand over accountability to the god-head.
As this is clearly unreasonable, you have to hand over reason at the same time.
The grounds that you are deeming theism as unreasonable, are in fact the very grounds that make theism REASONABLE:-

Accountability remains - you remain accountable for your own affairs and are also accountable to the doctrine of whatever faith you were born and raised within. You can then chose to believe in it or not and certainly become atheist - that consideration is no longer an option for me.
You need to understand, theism permits the comprehension of a concept - the 'soul'.
So one IS NOT simply handing over accountability but rather, understanding that in 'this' life, God has seen fit to have you born into the family of a particular faith. In my case - being raised Catholic.
Some time ago, perhaps a 100yrs or more, you were probably off to Church every week - then as your soul traversed time, you decided - its all a load of bollocks, and became atheist. This life, I'm thinking you probably were born into an atheist upbringing - you created your own path through life. You remain atheist - you will be born into atheism.

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 amReason? No. You arn't going to remove reason from a theist definition of Wisdom - surely!??
As theism is an unreasonable position, I see no reason to include wisdom in theism.
That is ridiculous. Am I correct in saying that you believe ONLY atheists can develop to have Wisdom?

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pmWisdom is the place where reason, knowledge, information and experience come together with age and consideration.
It is a dangerous position to be in, since complacency can result.
Reason - Intelligent Analysis.
Knowledge - Analysed Information Stored.
Experience - Limited - No Faith - No 'Spiritual' Experience.
Condsideration - Intelligent Reasoning of Experience - Limited.

So as demonstrated above, atheist 'Wisdom' is rather limited:-
IF there is a God, this entity will not reveal itself in any reasonable way since it has demanded FAITH.
In that binary position where you as an atheist may be wrong - you are restricting yourself from any actual experience of..God.

Thus, the true love of Wisdom is a tenet only held by the theist philosopher.

You're welcome. :D
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 5:17 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 am

I think you mean, ADD accountability and REMOVE reason?
No. I meant what I said. When you adopt the religion of your childhood, or pick one, you hand over accountability to the god-head.
As this is clearly unreasonable, you have to hand over reason at the same time.
The grounds that you are deeming theism as unreasonable, are in fact the very grounds that make theism REASONABLE:-
And dark is light, and white is black.; and whole is empty.

Accountability remains - you remain accountable for your own affairs and are also accountable to the doctrine of whatever faith you were born and raised within. You can then chose to believe in it or not and certainly become atheist - that consideration is no longer an option for me.
This is not accountability. This is slavery.
You need to understand, theism permits the comprehension of a concept - the 'soul'.
So one IS NOT simply handing over accountability but rather, understanding that in 'this' life, God has seen fit to have you born into the family of a particular faith. In my case - being raised Catholic.
Some time ago, perhaps a 100yrs or more, you were probably off to Church every week - then as your soul traversed time, you decided - its all a load of bollocks, and became atheist. This life, I'm thinking you probably were born into an atheist upbringing - you created your own path through life. You remain atheist - you will be born into atheism.

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 1:12 amReason? No. You arn't going to remove reason from a theist definition of Wisdom - surely!??
As theism is an unreasonable position, I see no reason to include wisdom in theism.
That is ridiculous. Am I correct in saying that you believe ONLY atheists can develop to have Wisdom?
What makes submission and slavery reasonable?

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:57 pmWisdom is the place where reason, knowledge, information and experience come together with age and consideration.
It is a dangerous position to be in, since complacency can result.
Reason - Intelligent Analysis.
Knowledge - Analysed Information Stored.
Experience - Limited - No Faith - No 'Spiritual' Experience.
Condsideration - Intelligent Reasoning of Experience - Limited.

So as demonstrated above, atheist 'Wisdom' is rather limited:-
IF there is a God, this entity will not reveal itself in any reasonable way since it has demanded FAITH.
Well exactly. "IF".
Faith is the death of reason.
In that binary position where you as an atheist may be wrong - you are restricting yourself from any actual experience of..God.

Thus, the true love of Wisdom is a tenet only held by the theist philosopher.

You're welcome. :D
I've answered your question. You don't like it. I never expected you to.
Neither did I expect you to listen.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Sculptor wrote: As theism is an unreasonable position, I see no reason to include wisdom in theism.
That is ridiculous. Am I correct in saying that you believe ONLY atheists can develop to have Wisdom?
What makes submission and slavery reasonable?
Is your life on the whole lived in accordance with the boundaries of the Ten Commandments?
...probably.

Mine is, doesn't make me a slave. If some submission to the entity that constructs our reality is required to gain further knowledge, experience, indeed true Wisdom, it is a wise choice to make - no?

Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Sculptor wrote:Wisdom is the place where reason, knowledge, information and experience come together with age and consideration.
It is a dangerous position to be in, since complacency can result.
Reason - Intelligent Analysis.
Knowledge - Analysed Information Stored.
Experience - Limited - No Faith - No 'Spiritual' Experience.
Condsideration - Intelligent Reasoning of Experience - Limited.

So as demonstrated above, atheist 'Wisdom' is rather limited:-
IF there is a God, this entity will not reveal itself in any reasonable way since it has demanded FAITH.
Well exactly. "IF".
Faith is the death of reason.
Atheism is the death of the search for Truth.

It was a rhetorical 'IF'.

I had Faith, I gained gnosis of God's existence, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me, I tested it, it tested me..

Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:In that binary position where you as an atheist may be wrong - you are restricting yourself from any actual experience of..God.

Thus, the true love of Wisdom is a tenet only held by the theist philosopher.

You're welcome. :D
I've answered your question. You don't like it. I never expected you to.
Of course I like your answer, it was easy to challenge. Just because it was lacking a reasonable appreciation of the term WISDOM, doesn't mean I didn't like it.

Sculptor wrote: Neither did I expect you to listen.
Well, it must have been a nice surprise then. :D
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 11:47 pm
Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
That is ridiculous. Am I correct in saying that you believe ONLY atheists can develop to have Wisdom?
What makes submission and slavery reasonable?
Is your life on the whole lived in accordance with the boundaries of the Ten Commandments?
...probably.
No. Not in the slightest.
The TC are the biggest waste of time in the history of law. The first four are a complete waste of time, presumably put there by a needy god scared that no one will notice him, whilst the rest are mostly obvious. The TC is worst though for what it left out; NO child protection - in fact the reverse, demanding that children honour their parents; NOT a thought in the protection of women and the vulnerable; And no. six usually says "no murder" rather than "do not kill" which validates warfare.
It's further worth adding that basic moral laws far better than these ten PRECEDED the Christians by thousands of years.
So, WTF is yor point exactly?


Atheism is the death of the search for Truth.
NO. Theism is the end of the search for truth. Fatih has all its answer. Except thos answers are wrong. Atheism is open to suggestion.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 11:47 pm
Sculptor wrote: What makes submission and slavery reasonable?
Is your life on the whole lived in accordance with the boundaries of the Ten Commandments?
...probably.
No. Not in the slightest.
Bullshit. So you are a murdering, thieving adulterer? Truly, I don't fucking care, I ain't yer typical Christian.
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 amThe TC are the biggest waste of time in the history of law. The first four are a complete waste of time, presumably put there by a needy god scared that no one will notice him, whilst the rest are mostly obvious. The TC is worst though for what it left out; NO child protection - in fact the reverse, demanding that children honour their parents; NOT a thought in the protection of women and the vulnerable;
Not harming children and innocents surely goes without saying.
Let's face it - the list could get over 100 and we still wouldn't be done.
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 amAnd no. six usually says "no murder" rather than "do not kill" which validates warfare.
But permits us to kill animals for food, and those that encroach upon our safety.

Sculptor wrote:It's further worth adding that basic moral laws far better than these ten PRECEDED the Christians by thousands of years.
So, WTF is yor point exactly?
That contrary to your statement implying I am a slave, i isn't.
Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Atheism is the death of the search for Truth.
NO. Theism is the end of the search for truth. Faith has all its answer. Except those answers are wrong. Atheism is open to suggestion.
Faith has NO answers, only a plethora of more questions that atheists are turning their back on. It opens an entire field of questions that deal with ones own life to include WHY rather than just HOW.

Some theists are stupid doctrinal fundamentalist, evangelist God worshiping twats..i'll grant you that. :D
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:04 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 11:47 pm

Is your life on the whole lived in accordance with the boundaries of the Ten Commandments?
...probably.
No. Not in the slightest.
Bullshit. So you are a murdering, thieving adulterer? Truly, I don't fucking care, I ain't yer typical Christian.
I don't need a set of rules, nor the threat of hell to keep me good.
Do you
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 amThe TC are the biggest waste of time in the history of law. The first four are a complete waste of time, presumably put there by a needy god scared that no one will notice him, whilst the rest are mostly obvious. The TC is worst though for what it left out; NO child protection - in fact the reverse, demanding that children honour their parents; NOT a thought in the protection of women and the vulnerable;
Not harming children and innocents surely goes without saying.
Let's face it - the list could get over 100 and we still wouldn't be done.
Not murdering goes without saying. Not stealing goes without saying. Why mention them?
Priests have been f*cking children since time immemorial and Christians have been persecution women too.
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 amAnd no. six usually says "no murder" rather than "do not kill" which validates warfare.
But permits us to kill animals for food, and those that encroach upon our safety.

Sculptor wrote:It's further worth adding that basic moral laws far better than these ten PRECEDED the Christians by thousands of years.
So, WTF is yor point exactly?
That contrary to your statement implying I am a slave, i isn't.
Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:Atheism is the death of the search for Truth.
NO. Theism is the end of the search for truth. Faith has all its answer. Except those answers are wrong. Atheism is open to suggestion.
Faith has NO answers, only a plethora of more questions that atheists are turning their back on. It opens an entire field of questions that deal with ones own life to include WHY rather than just HOW.

Some theists are stupid doctrinal fundamentalist, evangelist God worshiping twats..i'll grant you that. :D
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:34 am
attofishpi wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 10:04 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 am
No. Not in the slightest.
Bullshit. So you are a murdering, thieving adulterer? Truly, I don't fucking care, I ain't yer typical Christian.
I don't need a set of rules, nor the threat of hell to keep me good.
Do you
Chaz - don't matter wot we want or need, ultimately it is what is an ultimate result that matters - I've experienced HELL not crossing that ledge again.
The very fact that as an atheist you are aware of such matters, means you too are owned by the judgement.
tuff tits - atheist\theist it matters not.

Sculptor wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Sculptor wrote:The TC are the biggest waste of time in the history of law. The first four are a complete waste of time, presumably put there by a needy god scared that no one will notice him, whilst the rest are mostly obvious. The TC is worst though for what it left out; NO child protection - in fact the reverse, demanding that children honour their parents; NOT a thought in the protection of women and the vulnerable;

Not harming children and innocents surely goes without saying.
Let's face it - the list could get over 100 and we still wouldn't be done.
Not murdering goes without saying. Not stealing goes without saying. Why mention them?
Does it? Ever had to deal with someone that has ripped you off and shagged your wife?

Sculptor wrote:Priests have been f*cking children since time immemorial and Christians have been persecution women too.
Yep. And either they are the stupidest **** on the planet or they are atheists that became priests.


WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT YOU LEFT UNADDRESSED?
attofishpi wrote:
Sculptor wrote:NO. Theism is the end of the search for truth. Faith has all its answer. Except those answers are wrong. Atheism is open to suggestion.
Faith has NO answers, only a plethora of more questions that atheists are turning their back on. It opens an entire field of questions that deal with ones own life to include WHY rather than just HOW.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 am Theism is the end of the search for truth.
The search for Truth is theism.

An atruist rejects Truth much like an atheist rejects God.

Truth doesn't exist.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 11:22 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 am Theism is the end of the search for truth.
The search for Truth is theism.

An atruist rejects Truth much like an atheist rejects God.

Truth doesn't exist.
..er care for an owl?
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