What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

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attofishpi
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What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

noun: philosophy

1.
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
a particular system of philosophical thought.

2.
a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.


Greek:- "love of wisdom"


Just interested in any atheists thoughts on the subject of What is Wisdom? - not so much interested in theists..
commonsense
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

Are agnostics allowed?
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:34 pm Are agnostics allowed?
Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic. <<----I STAND CORRECTED - APPARENTLY IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A GNOSTIC ATHEIST TO EXIST.
i know, LMFAO!!


Would you mind clarifying some degree of a definition of your agnostic stance? (if of course that is your stance)
Last edited by attofishpi on Sun May 10, 2020 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
commonsense
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:34 pm Are agnostics allowed?
Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic.

Would you mind clarifying some degree of a definition of your agnostic stance? (if of course that is your stance)

My stance? If I am to be a thinking being, I must have knowledge before belief. There is no knowledge of God.

The existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.

But the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is possible that there is an unknowable Deity.

When it comes to wisdom, it is not clear to me that there is a difference between wisdom in theism and in atheism.

Please clarify for me what you are getting at.
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attofishpi
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:34 pm Are agnostics allowed?
Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic.

Would you mind clarifying some degree of a definition of your agnostic stance? (if of course that is your stance)

My stance? If I am to be a thinking being, I must have knowledge before belief. There is no knowledge of God.
That would not be 'belief' that would be gnosis.

commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amThe existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.
No. The existence of God can be known - since if there is a God, I am sure you would agree that this entity would have the ability to make itself known to someone.

commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amBut the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is possible that there is an unknowable Deity.
Why do you insist that if God exists that it must be unknowable?

commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amWhen it comes to wisdom, it is not clear to me that there is a difference between wisdom in theism and in atheism.

Please clarify for me what you are getting at.
Please define what Wisdom is to you as an agnostic atheist.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

attofishpi wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 1:48 am
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic.

Would you mind clarifying some degree of a definition of your agnostic stance? (if of course that is your stance)
My stance? If I am to be a thinking being, I must have knowledge before belief. There is no knowledge of God.
That would not be 'belief' that would be gnosis.
As far as gnosis goes, if you’re saying I must have knowledge before I can have esoteric knowledge of a spiritual nature that’s necessary for salvation, then, yes, general knowledge precedes specific knowledge in order to make sense.

I do not claim to have any such spiritual knowledge necessary for salvation. Whether I have it or not isn’t relevant to the point I intended to make, because what I was trying to say was that any knowledge has a place of primacy over blind acceptance without verifiable fact.
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amThe existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.
No. The existence of God can be known - since if there is a God, I am sure you would agree that this entity would have the ability to make itself known to someone.
I don’t agree that your Entity would have the ability to make itself known. However, if the entity were to be all powerful, it might have the power to make itself known and yet have no reason to choose to do so.
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amBut the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is possible that there is an unknowable Deity.
Why do you insist that if God exists that it must be unknowable?
Because I cannot conceive of a way to know a God. Thus far, you have only suggested that a God is knowable because it has the ability to make itself known.

Why does a God need to or want to make itself known to a human?
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 amWhen it comes to wisdom, it is not clear to me that there is a difference between wisdom in theism and in atheism.

Please clarify for me what you are getting at.
Please define what Wisdom is to you as an agnostic atheist.
I still don’t understand why you specify agnostic atheist wisdom as distinct from human wisdom.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by gaffo »

attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 1:18 pm noun: philosophy

1.
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
a particular system of philosophical thought.

2.
a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.


Greek:- "love of wisdom"


Just interested in any atheists thoughts on the subject of What is Wisdom? - not so much interested in theists..
I self identify as an Atheist.

IMO Atheism is just a negation of a belief in a higher being due to lack of empiral evidence.

so Atheism in and of itself offers no wisdom, there are many fools and wise folks and many inbetween that are Atheists.

I'm also a Solipsist BTW. most Athiests are not also Solipsists - i assume.

Wisdom has no link to knowledge or classical education - an ignorant farmer can have more wisdom than the an Einstein. - just ask Edward Teller - the most classically educated fool of all time about that.

Wisdom is self knowledge - one that is wise is one that knows himself to the core - all the good and the bad of his nature - what his religion is or non-relegion is irrelivent.

if you know yourself you are wise, if you do not you are a fool - that goes for Beleivers and non-beleivers.
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by gaffo »

attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 9:34 pm Are agnostics allowed?
Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic.
True per definition, i have no interest in proving God does not exist nor know it.

i just do not like the term Agnostic - view it as limp wristed - testing the wind - types.

but ya, i agree with your statement above.
gaffo
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by gaffo »

commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 am
The existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.

the existence of anything/anyone - outside of "you" is on blind faith.

bubba.
gaffo
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by gaffo »

attofishpi wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 1:48 am

Why do you insist that if God exists that it must be unknowable?

does the ant know of the sidewalk (let alone the sidewalks maker?) - no.

the ant is orders too low in nature of even see the sidewalk! let alone its maker!
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

To non-theists;
Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense and insight.[1]
-wiki
for the optimal well being of the individual, groups and humanity.
Whatever is of wisdom must be driven by moral principles, i.e.
Wisdom is associated with attributes such as unbiased judgment, compassion, experiential self-knowledge, self-transcendence and non-attachment,[2] and virtues such as ethics and benevolence.
Wisdom for non-theists is directed to all human beings universally.

On the other hand whatever is of "wisdom" is qualified and confined within the immutable holy texts of the respective God for the well beings of believers only - which is very selfish.
For theists, as commanded in the holy texts, the well beings of believers is of priority.
A certain theist ideology of God even condones the killing of non-believers upon the most vague threats to the religion. - this is so evident.
uwot
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What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Not getting involved in interminable arguments with theists. Anyway:
attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm...atheists can only be agnostic.
As Thomas Huxley, who invented the word said:
"Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."
That's a pretty good example of wisdom in my book.
Skepdick
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:45 pm Well of course, atheists can only be agnostic.
Nope. (a)theism and (a)gnosticism are different axes.

(a)gnosticism is about knowledge (in general). Knowledge about gods is only a particular case.

(Also, I am saying what uwot is saying but with pictures)
agnostic..jpg
agnostic..jpg (53.86 KiB) Viewed 608 times
commonsense
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by commonsense »

gaffo wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 2:16 am
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 am
The existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.

the existence of anything/anyone - outside of "you" is on blind faith.

bubba.
But I can test fór the existence of gravity by jumping off a building. Gravity is a matter of knowledge, not ignorance.
gaffo
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Re: What is Wisdom in Atheist Philosophy?

Post by gaffo »

commonsense wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 4:14 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 2:16 am
commonsense wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 12:33 am
The existence of a God can only be assumed on blind faith.

the existence of anything/anyone - outside of "you" is on blind faith.

bubba.
But I can test fór the existence of gravity by jumping off a building. Gravity is a matter of knowledge, not ignorance.
ok if you say so.

i'm probably talking to myself out of boredom
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