Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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Gary Childress
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gary Childress »

Except none of those links seem to indicate that the CDC and WHO are conspiring with big business to further consolidate big business's control over the economy.
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gary Childress »

Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:46 pm
Gloominary wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:14 pm
Their hospitalization per infection rate is as fraudulent as their mortality per infection rate.
Hospitals aren't much more overwhelmed this year than last, and to the degree they are, it's due to a growing and aging population, not Covid.
Complete nonsense, made up on the spot.
Every country on earth where there is a case is practicing some kind of mitigation.
In my own local hospital they have added beds to accommodate the 300 extra cases. At the same time many people are staying away since elective surgeries have been postponed.
To properly understand the infection to have to look at New York and imagine what would happen if that example were repeated in other states, where the infection has been slowed down due to the measures that have been taken.
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
And what would have happened in NY and NJ had there been no lockdown? And would other places have become overwhelmed had there been no lockdown?
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Sculptor
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Sculptor »

Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:46 pm
Gloominary wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:14 pm
Their hospitalization per infection rate is as fraudulent as their mortality per infection rate.
Hospitals aren't much more overwhelmed this year than last, and to the degree they are, it's due to a growing and aging population, not Covid.
Complete nonsense, made up on the spot.
Every country on earth where there is a case is practicing some kind of mitigation.
In my own local hospital they have added beds to accommodate the 300 extra cases. At the same time many people are staying away since elective surgeries have been postponed.
To properly understand the infection to have to look at New York and imagine what would happen if that example were repeated in other states, where the infection has been slowed down due to the measures that have been taken.
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
They are underwhelmed because of the measures. DUH.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
Well duh.
Think it over.
New York is more metropolitan and got the virus first before the backwoods.
Its a complete no brainer.
The rates of cases are going to be matched across the country unless you can think of some special reason why rednecks are immune
Gloominary
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gloominary »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 12:31 pm Except none of those links seem to indicate that the CDC and WHO are conspiring with big business to further consolidate big business's control over the economy.
Big Business Has All the Advantages in the Pandemic
Even now, some of them are hiring and expanding while small companies are getting crushed.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... e-pandemic

Follow the money, who benefits?
Covid itself is a nothing burger.
Big business, big government, big pharma and MSM benefit, we don't.
We rarely, if ever do.
NAIROBI, Kenya — In the largest slum in Kenya’s capital, people desperate to eat set off a stampede during a recent giveaway of flour and cooking oil, leaving scores injured and two people dead.
In India, thousands of workers are lining up twice a day for bread and fried vegetables to keep hunger at bay.
And across Colombia, poor households are hanging red clothing and flags from their windows and balconies as a sign that they are hungry.
“We don’t have any money, and now we need to survive,” said Pauline Karushi, who lost her job at a jewelry business in Nairobi, and lives in two rooms with her child and four other relatives. “That means not eating much.”
The coronavirus pandemic has brought hunger to millions of people around the world. National lockdowns and social distancing measures are drying up work and incomes, and are likely to disrupt agricultural production and supply routes — leaving millions to worry how they will get enough to eat.
“The coronavirus has been anything but a great equalizer,” said Asha Jaffar, a volunteer who brought food to families in the Nairobi slum of Kibera after the fatal stampede. “It’s been the great revealer, pulling the curtain back on the class divide and exposing how deeply unequal this country is.”
Already, 135 million people had been facing acute food shortages, but now with the pandemic, 130 million more could go hungry in 2020, said Arif Husain, chief economist at the World Food Program, a United Nations agency. Altogether, an estimated 265 million people could be pushed to the brink of starvation by year’s end.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/in ... li=AAggNb9
Gloominary
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gloominary »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 12:48 pm
Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:46 pm
Complete nonsense, made up on the spot.
Every country on earth where there is a case is practicing some kind of mitigation.
In my own local hospital they have added beds to accommodate the 300 extra cases. At the same time many people are staying away since elective surgeries have been postponed.
To properly understand the infection to have to look at New York and imagine what would happen if that example were repeated in other states, where the infection has been slowed down due to the measures that have been taken.
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
And what would have happened in NY and NJ had there been no lockdown? And would other places have become overwhelmed had there been no lockdown?
7 governors still haven't issued stay-at-home orders. Here's why.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics ... index.html

Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming didn't lock themselves down, yet they hardly had any deaths.
Of course they're rural states with low population density, which helps prevent the spread, but nonetheless let's compare them with other low pop density states.

Arkansas, total cases 3,321, total deaths 64
Iowa, total cases 8,641, total deaths 175
Nebraska, total cases 4,838, total deaths 73
North Dakota, total cases 1,153, total deaths 24
South Dakota, total cases 2,525, total deaths 21
Utah, total cases 4,828, total deaths 46
Wyoming, total cases 566, total deaths 7

Alaska, total cases 364, total deaths 9
Montana, total cases 455, total deaths 16
New Mexico, total cases 3,513, total deaths 131
Idaho, total cases 2,035, total deaths 63
Nevada, total cases 5,311, total deaths 254
Kansas, total cases 4,634, total deaths 140
Oregon, total cases 2,579, total deaths 104

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I'm not seeing a significant difference, are you?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:46 pm
Complete nonsense, made up on the spot.
Every country on earth where there is a case is practicing some kind of mitigation.
In my own local hospital they have added beds to accommodate the 300 extra cases. At the same time many people are staying away since elective surgeries have been postponed.
To properly understand the infection to have to look at New York and imagine what would happen if that example were repeated in other states, where the infection has been slowed down due to the measures that have been taken.
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
They are underwhelmed because of the measures. DUH.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
Well duh.
Think it over.
New York is more metropolitan and got the virus first before the backwoods.
Its a complete no brainer.
The rates of cases are going to be matched across the country unless you can think of some special reason why rednecks are immune
Such a racist.
Gary Childress
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gary Childress »

Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 6:47 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 12:48 pm
Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
And what would have happened in NY and NJ had there been no lockdown? And would other places have become overwhelmed had there been no lockdown?
7 governors still haven't issued stay-at-home orders. Here's why.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics ... index.html

Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming didn't lock themselves down, yet they hardly had any deaths.
Of course they're rural states with low population density, which helps prevent the spread, but nonetheless let's compare them with other low pop density states.

Arkansas, total cases 3,321, total deaths 64
Iowa, total cases 8,641, total deaths 175
Nebraska, total cases 4,838, total deaths 73
North Dakota, total cases 1,153, total deaths 24
South Dakota, total cases 2,525, total deaths 21
Utah, total cases 4,828, total deaths 46
Wyoming, total cases 566, total deaths 7

Alaska, total cases 364, total deaths 9
Montana, total cases 455, total deaths 16
New Mexico, total cases 3,513, total deaths 131
Idaho, total cases 2,035, total deaths 63
Nevada, total cases 5,311, total deaths 254
Kansas, total cases 4,634, total deaths 140
Oregon, total cases 2,579, total deaths 104

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I'm not seeing a significant difference, are you?
You said it yourself, they're rural states. Possibly they don't need lockdowns but more densely populated states and states that get a lot of tourism most definitely do.
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gloominary »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

Sweden never locked itself down, let's compare it with some of its neighbors.

Sweden, total cases 22,082, total deaths 2,669

Denmark, total cases, 9,407, total deaths 475
Norway, total cases 7,801, total deaths 210
Belgium, total cases 49,517, total deaths 7,765
Netherlands, total cases 40,236, total deaths 4,987
Austria, total cases 15,558, total deaths 596
Switzerland, total cases 29,817, total deaths 1,760

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Bear in mind, Sweden has about double the population of Denmark and Norway.

Sweden has a population of about 10 million.
About 1 in every 3000 or 0.03% of Swedes died with Covid.

Again, I'm not seeing a significant difference, are you?

Also bear in mind, they died with Covid, not necessarily of, as the vast majority of terminally infected were 70+ with multiple diseases (cancer, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension) and other colds and flus who very well may have died immediately or within days or weeks anyway had they not contracted Covid.
Doctors were pressured to write down Covid on their death certificates.
They weren't pressured to write down other colds and flus on their death certificates.
Covid was never determined to be the or even a cause of death.
COVID-19 Lethality Not Much Different Than Flu, Says New Study

Possible really good news from a population screening antibody test study in Santa Clara County, California

Between 48,000 and 81,000 residents of Santa Clara County, California are likely to have already been infected by the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, suggests a new study by researchers associated with Stanford University Medical School. The researchers tested a sample of 3,330 residents of the county using blood tests to detect antibodies to determine whether or not they had been exposed to the coronavirus. If the researchers' calculations are correct, that's really good news. Why? Because that data will help public health officials to get a better handle on just how lethal the coronavirus is, and if researchers are right it's a lot less lethal than many have feared it to be.

Currently, the U.S. case fatality rate, that is, the percent of people with confirmed diagnoses of COVID-19 who die, is running at 5.2 percent. But epidemiologists have known that a significant proportion of people who are infected are going undetected by the medical system because either they don't feel sick enough to seek help or are asymptomatic. For example, recent research in Iceland suggests that about 50 percent of people infected with the virus have no symptoms.

In the new study, the researchers sought residents through Facebook to whom they could administer the antibody tests. The results were an unadjusted prevalence of coronavirus antibodies of 1.5 percent. After making various statistical and demographic adjustments, researchers calculated the likely prevalence ranged from 2.49 to 4.16 percent. At the time that these tests were administered, there were about 1,000 confirmed COVID-19 cases and 32* deaths from the disease in Santa Clara County. The upshot is that "these prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50- 85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases."

Using these data, the researchers calculated the infection fatality rate, that is, the percent of people infected with the disease who die: "A hundred deaths out of 48,000-81,000 infections corresponds to an infection fatality rate of 0.12-0.2%," they report.* That's about the same infection fatality rate the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates for seasonal influenza.

The researchers conclude:

While our study was limited to Santa Clara County, it demonstrates the feasibility of seroprevalence surveys of population samples now, and in the future, to inform our understanding of this pandemic's progression, project estimates of community vulnerability, and monitor infection fatality rates in different populations over time. It is also an important tool for reducing uncertainty about the state of the epidemic, which may have important public benefits.

Assuming that their findings are happily confirmed, among the important public benefits would be a quicker end to the pandemic lockdown we are all experiencing. It's high time the CDC gets it act together and conducts similar antibody population screening to determine the prevalence of the disease across the nation.
https://reason.com/2020/04/17/covid-19- ... new-study/
Gary Childress
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gary Childress »

Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:37 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

Sweden never locked itself down, let's compare it with some of its neighbors.

Sweden, total cases 22,082, total deaths 2,669

Denmark, total cases, 9,407, total deaths 475
Norway, total cases 7,801, total deaths 210
Belgium, total cases 49,517, total deaths 7,765
Netherlands, total cases 40,236, total deaths 4,987
Austria, total cases 15,558, total deaths 596
Switzerland, total cases 29,817, total deaths 1,760

Bear in mind, Sweden has about double the population of Denmark and Norway.

Sweden has a population of about 10 million.
About 1 in every 3000 or 0.03% of Swedes died with Covid.

Again, I'm not seeing a significant difference, are you?

Also bear in mind, they died with Covid, not necessarily of, as the vast majority of infected that died were 70+ with multiple serious diseases (cancer, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension) and other colds and flus who very well might've died immediately or within days or weeks had they not contracted Covid.
Doctors were pressured to write down Covid on their death certificates.
They weren't pressured to write down other colds and flus on their death certificates.
Covid was never determined to be the or even a cause of death.
COVID-19 Lethality Not Much Different Than Flu, Says New Study

Possible really good news from a population screening antibody test study in Santa Clara County, California

Between 48,000 and 81,000 residents of Santa Clara County, California are likely to have already been infected by the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, suggests a new study by researchers associated with Stanford University Medical School. The researchers tested a sample of 3,330 residents of the county using blood tests to detect antibodies to determine whether or not they had been exposed to the coronavirus. If the researchers' calculations are correct, that's really good news. Why? Because that data will help public health officials to get a better handle on just how lethal the coronavirus is, and if researchers are right it's a lot less lethal than many have feared it to be.

Currently, the U.S. case fatality rate, that is, the percent of people with confirmed diagnoses of COVID-19 who die, is running at 5.2 percent. But epidemiologists have known that a significant proportion of people who are infected are going undetected by the medical system because either they don't feel sick enough to seek help or are asymptomatic. For example, recent research in Iceland suggests that about 50 percent of people infected with the virus have no symptoms.

In the new study, the researchers sought residents through Facebook to whom they could administer the antibody tests. The results were an unadjusted prevalence of coronavirus antibodies of 1.5 percent. After making various statistical and demographic adjustments, researchers calculated the likely prevalence ranged from 2.49 to 4.16 percent. At the time that these tests were administered, there were about 1,000 confirmed COVID-19 cases and 32* deaths from the disease in Santa Clara County. The upshot is that "these prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50- 85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases."

Using these data, the researchers calculated the infection fatality rate, that is, the percent of people infected with the disease who die: "A hundred deaths out of 48,000-81,000 infections corresponds to an infection fatality rate of 0.12-0.2%," they report.* That's about the same infection fatality rate the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates for seasonal influenza.

The researchers conclude:

While our study was limited to Santa Clara County, it demonstrates the feasibility of seroprevalence surveys of population samples now, and in the future, to inform our understanding of this pandemic's progression, project estimates of community vulnerability, and monitor infection fatality rates in different populations over time. It is also an important tool for reducing uncertainty about the state of the epidemic, which may have important public benefits.

Assuming that their findings are happily confirmed, among the important public benefits would be a quicker end to the pandemic lockdown we are all experiencing. It's high time the CDC gets it act together and conducts similar antibody population screening to determine the prevalence of the disease across the nation.
https://reason.com/2020/04/17/covid-19- ... new-study/
Well in the US there were between 24,000 and 62,000 deaths from the flu between October 1 and April 4. That's for 6 months. It appears that COVID 19 has claimed 66,000 people's lives (according to your source) during the span of 2 months. At this point, we don't know how long COVID 19 will last at the current rate of fatalities. If it goes for 6 months at that rate, then it could be almost 200,000 deaths. That sounds a bit worse than the flu to me, even taking the high-end number of deaths from the flu at 62,000.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm
Gary Childress
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gary Childress »

AND taking into account your concerns about propaganda and the nefariousness of leaders, how do you know those trying to play down the danger of COVID 19 like yourself aren't under the influence of corporations wanting to return to economic normalcy--just like the tobacco industry played down the risks of cancer and smoking?
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Sculptor
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Sculptor »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Gloominary wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:53 am
The vast majority of hospitals across the US are underwhelmed, with a few exceptions like New York and New Jersey.
There's no data showing hospitals would've been overwhelmed had the US not shut down, just empty models, which've wildly missed the mark time after time.
They are underwhelmed because of the measures. DUH.
It's not like New York and New Jersey remained unlocked while the rest of the country locked down.
Well duh.
Think it over.
New York is more metropolitan and got the virus first before the backwoods.
Its a complete no brainer.
The rates of cases are going to be matched across the country unless you can think of some special reason why rednecks are immune
Such a racist.
Rednecks are not a race.
They are your friends.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 10:24 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 2:35 pm
They are underwhelmed because of the measures. DUH.

Well duh.
Think it over.
New York is more metropolitan and got the virus first before the backwoods.
Its a complete no brainer.
The rates of cases are going to be matched across the country unless you can think of some special reason why rednecks are immune
Such a racist.
Rednecks are not a race.
They are your friends.
Just using your own definition of 'racist', since PCturd cocksuckers like you have misused the word and made it mean 'any mention of any persons' nationality, ethnicity, colour, culture, race, religion (provided they aren't white people)', because people like you are condescending, racist, hypocritical wankers.
And who ordained that people have to like each other anyway? People have always hated each other. That's why we have wars. DUH! In fact the more virulent and irrational PC gets, the worse the warmongering and military-worship gets. That speaks volumes don't you think? Where is all the 'love and tolerance' you hypocrites keep preaching ad nauseum? How much would you have to hate someone to blow their arms and legs off? Don't you think a practical anti-war stance would be more useful than drivelling on about 'offence' and 'hurt feelings'? You can't make people like each other, but you can stop blowing them up. You can dislike a culture/religion/ethnicity for whatever reason without doing them any harm whatsoever.
Would pre-war Jews have been 'racist' for hating Germans? Would black Americans have been 'racist' for hating white Americans?
Would Irish people be 'racist' for hating the English? Would Japanese be 'racist' for hating Americans for dropping nuclear bombs on them? Would Iraqis be 'racist' for hating Americans?
Hating people is a completely normal human activity because humans are shitheads to each other, and 'culture' is often simply a collection of bad habits and horrible customs that deserve to be ridiculed and disliked. Cocksucking pommy military thugs were busy bombing Iraqis while your wanky PM was being saved in hospital with the greatest of care and tenderness. Poms walk around 24/7 with their ridiculous red poppies, to show how much they love and admire their professional murderers. So fuck the English.
How is lockdown going for ya? That WUHAN CHINA virus is a bitch isn't it? Why don't you make yourself feel better and go and visit as many aged care facilities as you can fit into your days?
Bitchillary is a hundred times more dangerous and more of a warmonger than Trump, so just the fact that you have nothing bad to say about her speaks volumes about your disgusting hypocrisy.
Long may he live, and I hope he wins BWHWAHAHAHAHHAHHA!!!!!
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sun May 03, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Gloominary
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gloominary »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 8:06 pm AND taking into account your concerns about propaganda and the nefariousness of leaders, how do you know those trying to play down the danger of COVID 19 like yourself aren't under the influence of corporations wanting to return to economic normalcy--just like the tobacco industry played down the risks of cancer and smoking?
All things being equal, I trust the guys trying to defend my liberty and prosperity more than guys trying to take them away from me.
+ the guys trying to defend our liberty and prosperity are generally more grassroots and independent than the guys trying to take them.

I think it's rarely necessary to take the people's liberty away.
That being said, I don't trust anyone very much, for example politically I'm not liberal, conservative or libertarian, I consider what everyone has to say, but I make up my own mind.

If smoking is bad for you, don't smoke.
If this virus is deadly for certain population groups, allow them to voluntarily self isolate while we carry on normally.
Perhaps tax Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and redistribute it to those voluntarily self isolating in the form of groceries and medical supplies delivered to their homes, to make it easier for them to do so.
But in my view, quarantining the healthy is absurd.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 10:24 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 2:35 pm
They are underwhelmed because of the measures. DUH.

Well duh.
Think it over.
New York is more metropolitan and got the virus first before the backwoods.
Its a complete no brainer.
The rates of cases are going to be matched across the country unless you can think of some special reason why rednecks are immune
Such a racist.
Rednecks are not a race.
They are your friends.
And while you and your hypocritical cocksucking turd friends in 'academia' are telling everyone they have to 'love' each other, your govts. are busy blowing people up and you are calling the perpetrators 'heroes' for it. In your own tiny pea brains blowing people up is fine--as long as you don't 'offend' (by your definition) them before you do it. Go fuck yourself.
Gloominary
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Re: Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing

Post by Gloominary »

If you do something as drastic as putting all of humanity on house arrest, you better have mountains upon mountains of indisputable, irrefutable scientific data to back you up, which is not at all like what they've given us.
All we have is speculation and conjecture, empty models whose projections dramatically change from moment to moment no one is prepared to stand behind, continually contradicted by new, actual data coming in from doctors and scientists on the frontlines.
Whose ass is on the line if their models are wildly off, who's responsible?
Are the CDC, WHO and guys like Anthony Fauci and Theresa Tam going to prison if their models are off by several orders of magnitude?
Are they going to be fined billions of dollars?
No?
Put your money where you mouth is and if you're not prepared to, then back the fuck up.
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