Note the definition of 'emergence' below.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:30 pmBy emergence I mean, some property which does not intrinsically exist in one state of matter appears in another state of matter.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 amWe have to agree on the definition of 'emergent'.
[we have gone tru this before].
Your definition do not seem to make sense at all.
Note the wiki definition below which specify;
- These properties or behaviors emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.
Note the bolded phrase above.
You missed the point here.The motion a biker and bicycle can be explained in terms of the properties of part. You can even simulate it.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 am In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence occurs when an entity is observed to have properties its parts do not have on their own.
These properties or behaviors emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.
For example, smooth forward motion emerges when a bicycle and its rider interoperate, but neither part can produce the behavior on their own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence ... _processes
What is implied is the emergence of motion only appears when the biker sits on the bicycle and consciously cycles it.
You got it wrong.That is not correct, any liquid is wet. The wetness is due to tension.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 am Read the above carefully.
Hydrogen and Oxygen by themselves do not have 'wetness' thus 'wetness' of water [H2O] is an emergence as defined above.
Not all liquids are wet, note liquid mercury, liquid gold, liquid lava, and the likes.
But the point here is,
there is only an emergence [as defined above] of wetness when H and O [two] are combined.
H and O by themselves do not have the property of 'wetness'.
Your definition of 'emergence' as above is very weird.I already defined the emergence.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 am The property or behavior is the emergent and this can be verified empirically and philosophically.
There is no way you should dispute my definition of emergence as qualified above.
You have to agree to the above, but you can say this definition do not serve your purpose.
Perhaps, you are defining 'emergence' from another perspective.
What is your definition of 'emergence' then?
Do you agree with the definition I provided with this critical point;
- These properties or behaviors emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.
1. the definition of emergence
2. wetness of liquids - not all liquids are wet.
3. the bike and the biker are separate parts, motion only appears when the biker pedal the bike.
No wonder your idea of 'mind' is a messed-up.