Why is nazism popular today?

[gaffo]

question for you (BTW i think i have more faith in the goodness of man than you - i think 90-percent of men are good - fixed percentage from Saudi arabia to America).

You'd have to have more faith in the goodness of man than I do.

I have none.

I think i do, that saddens me ;-/. I'm sad for you to have that mindset.

I think that when we compare ourselves to one another, sometimes we get feeling pretty good about how we stack up;

that perspective is egocentic and cynical - being good to brag about it outdoing my neighbor - is that your mindset when you do something good?

its not mine, i concern myself with me - when something happens and i have a choice to slink away or do the right thing - i compare my better self with my lesser self (not myself with others, and what they might do). sometimes i fail and play the coward, then comdenm my cowardlyness for a few weeks or months and vow to not be the letter me the next time (when next time comes around - sometimes i step up. sometime i play the coward again (Peter played the coward 3 times BTW, before he finally stepped up).

but that's because we don't put ourselves up against moral perfection.

THANK GOD!!!!!!!!! I'm not a fool! and will never be perfect, so dont even try for that!

i strive for the doable, to be good and to become better than i was yesterday (but i backslide - as state above).

being more good than bad and striving toward the better is good enough for me.

If we did, we'd be a lot less sure of just how good we all are.

I have no interest in perfection, i'm infanately far from that and know unable to achieve nor even try for that folly.

So some of the men in Saudi might be bad. And the meningitis America or England might be better than some of them. But so what?

thats not what a asked and you know it!

i asked you if Saudis are on average less good people due to thier vile culture (i stated they are equal in spite of thier vile culture) - you did not answer my inquary (i note the non answer BTW)

We're all a good deal less than we ought to be.

Indeed!!!!!!!!!

what are the percentages (good/evil folks)?

I think this is the wrong question.

I think it is fully valid Sir.

The right question is, where are the truly good people?

everywhere you look!

The people who have never lied, stolen, lashed out, spoken cruelly, desired wrongly, hated, plotted harm, taken advantage, neglected their duties, ignored the poor, laughed at the innocent, falsely boasted of their achievements, or remained silent and passive when they ought to have done good? You won't find any of them in any of those countries...or here, either. And that's precisely the problem with human nature.

well with such a high bar of perfection - see above - then of course no person that was born has ever been good.

i guess my standard for "Good" is just a lot lower and realistic and doable then yours. ;-/.


thanks for Reply!

[gaffo]

i gotta get ready for work tomorrow so i out of here.

may you have a good week Sir - until next weekend.

[Immanuel Can]

question for you (BTW i think i have more faith in the goodness of man than you - i think 90-percent of men are good - fixed percentage from Saudi arabia to America).

You'd have to have more faith in the goodness of man than I do.

I have none.

I think i do, that saddens me ;-/. I'm sad for you to have that mindset.

Don't worry, it's fine: what man cannot fix, God has.

I think that when we compare ourselves to one another, sometimes we get feeling pretty good about how we stack up;

that perspective is egocentic and cynical - being good to brag about it outdoing my neighbor - is that your mindset when you do something good?

No, but it's the thing we all tend to do. We look at other people, perhaps less fortunate or who have fallen into some trap we have not, and say, "Well, at least I'm not like that." But I think that's totally deceptive to ourselves.

i compare my better self with my lesser self

That's a better standard, but still as good as it needs to be. The only person who would know what the best self I could be is, is God.

(Peter played the coward 3 times BTW, before he finally stepped up).

Well, and he did worse. He actually disowned God, publicly, three times. If there was forgiveness for him, there can be for anything.

but that's because we don't put ourselves up against moral perfection.

THANK GOD!!!!!!!!! I'm not a fool! and will never be perfect, so dont even try for that!

i strive for the doable, to be good and to become better than i was yesterday (but i backslide - as state above).

being more good than bad and striving toward the better is good enough for me.

It could be, I suppose. But "good enough for me" isn't necessarily good. It's certainly not perfect. The question of whether the right standard is perfection is quite a different one from whether or not you and I are perfect.

I suggest we're imperfect, and in need of help. "All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God," as the Bible says.

If we did, we'd be a lot less sure of just how good we all are.

I have no interest in perfection, i'm infanately far from that and know unable to achieve nor even try for that folly.

I agree. We're never going to get there -- at least by our own trying harder. Someone might as well ask us to swim the Pacific Ocean.

However, people do cross the Pacific Ocean. Just never by swimming. They do it with a boat.

So some of the men in Saudi might be bad. And the men in America or England might be better than some of them. But so what?

thats not what a asked and you know it!

i asked you if Saudis are on average less good people due to thier vile culture (i stated they are equal in spite of thier vile culture) - you did not answer my inquary (i note the non answer BTW)

I guess I don't understand your question, then. I answered what I thought you were asking.

The right question is, where are the truly good people?

everywhere you look!

Then the best optometrist is the standard of perfection, of the righteousness of God. Then one sees as one needs to see, in order to see what's really there.

The people who have never lied, stolen, lashed out, spoken cruelly, desired wrongly, hated, plotted harm, taken advantage, neglected their duties, ignored the poor, laughed at the innocent, falsely boasted of their achievements, or remained silent and passive when they ought to have done good? You won't find any of them in any of those countries...or here, either. And that's precisely the problem with human nature.

well with such a high bar of perfection - see above - then of course no person that was born has ever been good.

Quite so. Well, there was One...

i guess my standard for "Good" is just a lot lower and realistic and doable then yours. ;-/.

Perhaps. But one is not necessarily wise to blame the standard for one's own failings. If one measures a length of rope, and finds it comes considerably short of the (say) yard-long length needed, one can blame the rope, and get a new one. Or one can hack a piece off one's yardstick, to make the rope match it. One is a sensible thing to do. The other, not so much.

If we fall short of the standard of righteousness, it's not the fault of the standard. And if we drop the standard, we don't become thereby "more up to it." We just lose the ability to tell how really short we're falling.

thanks for Reply!

Likewise.

[gaffo]

You'd have to have more faith in the goodness of man than I do.

I have none.

I think i do, that saddens me ;-/. I'm sad for you to have that mindset.

Don't worry, it's fine: what man cannot fix, God has.

I understand your view - folks if they accept Christ - can achieve God's perfect Good.

I'm not a Christian and when i think folks can just affirm Christ as thier Savior, and then become perfect - to me that seems the easy way out (last time i checked all Saved Christians continue to sin and are still mortal folks, like myself - most good - like me - but still fat from perfect/pure goodness.

I think that when we compare ourselves to one another, sometimes we get feeling pretty good about how we stack up;

that perspective is egocentic and cynical - being good to brag about it outdoing my neighbor - is that your mindset when you do something good?

No, but it's the thing we all tend to do. We look at other people, perhaps less fortunate or who have fallen into some trap we have not, and say, "Well, at least I'm not like that." But I think that's totally deceptive to ourselves.

I don't see that as deceptive - when i see a man living on the street, i do find comfort for myself - misery does love company - i.e. i can relate, and thing we he's got it worse. BUT i do not involve ego (he had it coming "are there no jails/workhouses"), i see a man in the street that i could have been placed in his place if i had lived his life.

you and i have different perspectives on that!!!!!!!!!!! - then i see the man living on the street, i am humbled (and ya misery loves company - this for me is about me "in his shoes, able to relate" not about "my life is shit and i glad his is shitter")

i compare my better self with my lesser self

That's a better standard, but still as good as it needs to be. The only person who would know what the best self I could be is, is God.

agreed, you just have a higher standard then me. but ya, i agree with you here.

(Peter played the coward 3 times BTW, before he finally stepped up).

Well, and he did worse. He actually disowned God, publicly, three times. If there was forgiveness for him, there can be for anything.

well then i just hope Peter died at peace with himself - knowing how he betrayed his friend Jesus several times after that latters death. I assume Peter was a good man and convicted himself many times over for his cowardessness, he had 20-30 yrs after his shame to live with it - and hope your God forgave him/and he forgave himself too - so that upon his death he died in peace (no death is peacefull, but you understand what i'm saying).

So some of the men in Saudi might be bad. And the men in America or England might be better than some of them. But so what?

thats not what a asked and you know it!

i asked you if Saudis are on average less good people due to thier vile culture (i stated they are equal in spite of thier vile culture) - you did not answer my inquary (i note the non answer BTW) [/quote]

I guess I don't understand your question, then. I answered what I thought you were asking.

I asked you if you think Saudis - per their DNA/Nationality/etc.......being Saudi Citizens...........(and i agree Saudi Culture is bad (I'm not PC - all cultures are not the same - all cultures have some good in them, so there is some good in Saudi culture (I assume) - but not PC here - Western (and Eastern - Buddist) cultures have more good in them than the Arabic ones.

My point to you was "do you think Saudis as persons are less good - their souls are more evil via their DNA/Islamism/etc....than Euro-westerners.

I am an Athiest Humanist!!!!!!! - that means, for me: alll men/women (black/white/pink/Saudi/American/Japanese/now or a million yrs ago - ALL have the same "spirit"/"soul" and have the same proportion of Good and Bad.

I'm not sure if you think the same - you being a Christian.

that is/was my point/inquary to you about the matter.

The people who have never lied, stolen, lashed out, spoken cruelly, desired wrongly, hated, plotted harm, taken advantage, neglected their duties, ignored the poor, laughed at the innocent, falsely boasted of their achievements, or remained silent and passive when they ought to have done good? You won't find any of them in any of those countries...or here, either. And that's precisely the problem with human nature.

well with such a high bar of perfection - see above - then of course no person that was born has ever been good.

Quite so. Well, there was One...

yes i know your Christ.


I do like talking to you - you have a mind and a heart, and willing to talk with an open mind. I welcome future discussions.

what are your views on Buddism?

I'm not a Buddist any more than Christian for Jew - but do find value in all three personally. I do find much in common with Christianity and Buddism - mindset wise, which most Christians never talk about.

what are your views on the matter?


curious.

thanks for reply and peace Sir.

[Immanuel Can]

I understand your view - folks if they accept Christ - can achieve God's perfect Good.

That's not quite my view. My view is that "folks" can't really "achieve" very much. They need a great deal of help, plus forgiveness, plus actual Divine intervention -- an actual relationship with God -- to make them into the people they should become.

last time i checked all Saved Christians continue to sin and are still mortal folks, like myself - most good - like me - but still fat from perfect/pure goodness.

That's exactly the point. Human "goodness" isn't worth very much. We're pretty darn bad at it.

No, but it's the thing we all tend to do. We look at other people, perhaps less fortunate or who have fallen into some trap we have not, and say, "Well, at least I'm not like that." But I think that's totally deceptive to ourselves.

It's one thing for us to say, "That man is worse off than I am," and quite another for us to say, "That's a worse MAN than I am." The former can certainly be true...the latter's not for us to judge. Given his circumstances, we might well be a worse man, pound for pound, than he is...be he ever so wretched.

BUT i do not involve ego (he had it coming "are there no jails/workhouses"), i see a man in the street that i could have been placed in his place if i had lived his life.

Right. That's exactly it.

you and i have different perspectives on that!!!!!!!!!!

It seems we don't.

agreed, you just have a higher standard then me. but ya, i agree with you here.

All good.

well then i just hope Peter died at peace with himself - knowing how he betrayed his friend Jesus several times after that latters death. I assume Peter was a good man and convicted himself many times over for his cowardessness, he had 20-30 yrs after his shame to live with it - and hope your God forgave him/and he forgave himself too - so that upon his death he died in peace (no death is peacefull, but you understand what i'm saying).

We actually know what happened to him. Christ restored him and forgave him, and told him, "Go, feed my sheep."

I asked you if you think Saudis - per their DNA/Nationality/etc.......being Saudi Citizens...........(and i agree Saudi Culture is bad (I'm not PC - all cultures are not the same - all cultures have some good in them, so there is some good in Saudi culture (I assume) - but not PC here - Western (and Eastern - Buddist) cultures have more good in them than the Arabic ones.

My point to you was "do you think Saudis as persons are less good - their souls are more evil via their DNA/Islamism/etc....than Euro-westerners.

Oh. The answer is no. A human being is a human being, in that respect.

I am an Athiest Humanist!!!!!!! - that means, for me: alll men/women (black/white/pink/Saudi/American/Japanese/now or a million yrs ago - ALL have the same "spirit"/"soul" and have the same proportion of Good and Bad.

Well, an Atheist perspective can never be used to explain what "good" and "evil" actually mean. If we are just animals crawling around on this planet as a result of some cosmic accident (maybe the Big Bang), plus time (like, maybe Evolution), then there are no real moral values in this universe...they're just an odd byproduct of human beings, that we don't really understand.

So nobody, as per Atheism's telling of the story, is really "good" or "bad." They just "are," they just exist.

I do like talking to you - you have a mind and a heart, and willing to talk with an open mind. I welcome future discussions.

Likewise. I notice you're only on, on weekends. Any reason for that?

what are your views on Buddism?

Well, I've studied it. And if I thought it was actually right, I'd have been a Buddhist long ago.


Same to you.

Stay safe. These are strange times.

[Sculptor]

With all the knowledge of the attrocities they committed, why is nazism becoming increasingly popular in the Western world (Europe and U.S.)?

Because Americans love incompetence.

David Frum:

“Mr. Trump has no desire to acquaint himself with most issues, let alone master them” is how I put it four years ago. “No major presidential candidate has ever been quite as disdainful of knowledge, as indifferent to facts, as untroubled by his benightedness.” I added this:

Mr. Trump’s virulent combination of ignorance, emotional instability, demagogy, solipsism and vindictiveness would do more than result in a failed presidency; it could very well lead to national catastrophe. The prospect of Donald Trump as commander in chief should send a chill down the spine of every American.

It took until the second half of Trump’s first term, but the crisis has arrived in the form of the coronavirus pandemic, and it’s hard to name a president who has been as overwhelmed by a crisis as the coronavirus has overwhelmed Donald Trump.

[Sculptor]

I think you'll find the print should be NATIONAL socialism. There's a fair gap between the forms of Socialism and national socialism is more akin to fascism than 'marxist' communism but they do share many traits.

Slightly different yes.

Nazism is a form of fascism and showed that ideology's disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system, but also incorporated fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and eugenics into its creed.

Socialism embraces liberal democracy, and would wish to include all races and creeds since it is internationalist even cosmopolitanist.
This is the real reason the resident fascist on this forum do not like it, since adopting socialism would mean the inclusions of orientals, hispanics and blacks, and they are all basically racists, though some of their best friends are dark skinned.

The white trash here fear socialism.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

As if the word 'racist' means anything any more, thanks to f'ing morons like the above who try to use it as a weapon to silence any opposition to his bullshit. Accord to him, it's 'racist' to say that a virus that has come from China...comes from China.... He's such a turd.

[henry quirk]

Socialism embraces liberal democracy,

Mob rule.

The only difference between the socialist and the communist...

The socialist hands you the gun, encourages you to eat the bullet.

The communist puts the gun up to your temple and pulls the trigger.

The end is the same.

Only thing worse than a socialist is a child rapist.

[Belinda]

Socialism embraces liberal democracy,

Mob rule.

The only difference between the socialist and the communist...

The socialist hands you the gun, encourages you to eat the bullet.

The communist puts the gun up to your temple and pulls the trigger.

The end is the same.

Only thing worse than a socialist is a child rapist.

The thing about a communist is a communist hands it to the state to make decisions for him. A communist is a sort of socialist. All communists are socialists: not all socialists are communists.

[henry quirk]

The thing about a communist is a communist hands it to the state to make decisions for him.

No, the State makes those decisions whether the Citizen likes it or not, agrees or not.


All communists are socialists: not all socialists are communists.

I've explained the difference: one encourages suicide, the other commits murder.

[Immanuel Can]

The thing about a communist is a communist hands it to the state to make decisions for him.

No, the State makes those decisions whether the Citizen likes it or not, agrees or not.


All communists are socialists: not all socialists are communists.

I've explained the difference: one encourages suicide, the other commits murder.

Where I live, there's a blend of socialism and democratic capitalism. This has been the way it has been for over half a century now, and in some areas of the economy, longer.

But the socialist elements of the economy have three very certain qualities, in all cases:

1. They're all far more expensive than they ever ought to be.

2. They're all far less efficient than we ever need them to be.

3. In all cases, their internals are run by vastly bloated bureaucracies that are not disciplined to issues of quality, resource responsibility or competence.

There is not one area in the socialized parts of the economy where these three features are not abundantly evident. It looks like those three are the inevitable price one pays for socializing anything...at least, in our experience.

[henry quirk]

The thing about a communist is a communist hands it to the state to make decisions for him.

No, the State makes those decisions whether the Citizen likes it or not, agrees or not.


All communists are socialists: not all socialists are communists.

I've explained the difference: one encourages suicide, the other commits murder.

Where I live, there's a blend of socialism and democratic capitalism. This has been the way it has been for over half a century now, and in some areas of the economy, longer.

But the socialist elements of the economy have three very certain qualities, in all cases:

1. They're all far more expensive than they ever ought to be.

2. They're all far less efficient than we ever need them to be.

3. In all cases, their internals are run by vastly bloated bureaucracies that are not disciplined to issues of quality, resource responsibility or competence.

There is not one area in the socialized parts of the economy where these three features are not abundantly evident. It looks like those three are the inevitable price one pays for socializing anything...at least, in our experience.

It's the capitalism that saves you.

[Immanuel Can]

There is not one area in the socialized parts of the economy where these three features are not abundantly evident. It looks like those three are the inevitable price one pays for socializing anything...at least, in our experience.

It's the capitalism that saves you.

Well, it sure as heck ain't the socialism bit. It just doesn't ever run well.

Socialized medicine has the advantage of being free -- but only immediate point-of-sale, as it is by far our largest tax burden, and that's how we end up paying for it. Besides, it has issued in lineups literally years long for some procedures -- just try to get a knee or hip replaced here. So that program's not even really a "winner" in many cases -- and it's the best we've got. Every other program is just as badly run and overpriced, but less appealing in terms of outcome.

[gaffo]

I understand your view - folks if they accept Christ - can achieve God's perfect Good.

That's not quite my view. My view is that "folks" can't really "achieve" very much. They need a great deal of help, plus forgiveness, plus actual Divine intervention -- an actual relationship with God -- to make them into the people they should become.

last time i checked all Saved Christians continue to sin and are still mortal folks, like myself - most good - like me - but still fat from perfect/pure goodness.

That's exactly the point. Human "goodness" isn't worth very much. We're pretty darn bad at it.

No, but it's the thing we all tend to do. We look at other people, perhaps less fortunate or who have fallen into some trap we have not, and say, "Well, at least I'm not like that." But I think that's totally deceptive to ourselves.

It's one thing for us to say, "That man is worse off than I am," and quite another for us to say, "That's a worse MAN than I am." The former can certainly be true...the latter's not for us to judge. Given his circumstances, we might well be a worse man, pound for pound, than he is...be he ever so wretched.

BUT i do not involve ego (he had it coming "are there no jails/workhouses"), i see a man in the street that i could have been placed in his place if i had lived his life.

Right. That's exactly it.

you and i have different perspectives on that!!!!!!!!!!

It seems we don't.

agreed, you just have a higher standard then me. but ya, i agree with you here.

All good.

well then i just hope Peter died at peace with himself - knowing how he betrayed his friend Jesus several times after that latters death. I assume Peter was a good man and convicted himself many times over for his cowardessness, he had 20-30 yrs after his shame to live with it - and hope your God forgave him/and he forgave himself too - so that upon his death he died in peace (no death is peacefull, but you understand what i'm saying).

We actually know what happened to him. Christ restored him and forgave him, and told him, "Go, feed my sheep."

I asked you if you think Saudis - per their DNA/Nationality/etc.......being Saudi Citizens...........(and i agree Saudi Culture is bad (I'm not PC - all cultures are not the same - all cultures have some good in them, so there is some good in Saudi culture (I assume) - but not PC here - Western (and Eastern - Buddist) cultures have more good in them than the Arabic ones.

My point to you was "do you think Saudis as persons are less good - their souls are more evil via their DNA/Islamism/etc....than Euro-westerners.

Oh. The answer is no. A human being is a human being, in that respect.

I am an Athiest Humanist!!!!!!! - that means, for me: alll men/women (black/white/pink/Saudi/American/Japanese/now or a million yrs ago - ALL have the same "spirit"/"soul" and have the same proportion of Good and Bad.

Well, an Atheist perspective can never be used to explain what "good" and "evil" actually mean. If we are just animals crawling around on this planet as a result of some cosmic accident (maybe the Big Bang), plus time (like, maybe Evolution), then there are no real moral values in this universe...they're just an odd byproduct of human beings, that we don't really understand.

So nobody, as per Atheism's telling of the story, is really "good" or "bad." They just "are," they just exist.

I do like talking to you - you have a mind and a heart, and willing to talk with an open mind. I welcome future discussions.

Likewise. I notice you're only on, on weekends. Any reason for that?

what are your views on Buddism?

Well, I've studied it. And if I thought it was actually right, I'd have been a Buddhist long ago.


Same to you.

Stay safe. These are strange times.

I agree with all you say - as one good man to another - and thank you for not being a rscist (you seeing Wahabist Saudi's as having the same "Spirit" as you and me.

My view is that morality - the sense of right and wrong - is via animal instinct (Man is just another animal) - animals have their own code - and so have instinct - inlcuding "doing right" for there "tribe". as we have since million yrs ago or so.

- thanks for not being a racist dick, and I do think we agree on what good and bad is and glad you affirm that Saudi Wahabists were not born as lesser humans via their inborn nature, and affirm their born nature is eqaul to all other humans.

and so, i agree fully with all you state in reply to me - though you are a Christian, and I am not.


thanks for being a man with a conscience (and a Christian also - the former is more important to me - the latter irrelivent), I welcome talking with you more because of.

peace to you Sir.