God and COVID-19

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Age
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Age » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:42 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:24 am
Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 am
I find it interesting to observe how babies react to the Arabic recitation of the Holy Quran. If you allow me, I will like to share with you some interesting videos on the subject.

1. Reaction of babies (3 min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4slRE3V2y9s
2. Reaction of a fetus (5 min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gUxJKARWUs
3. Reaction of a little girl (3min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGKR7fk_vk
4. Reaction of a BBC reporter (2min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbh-S5uq8SY
You are too emotional on this and succumbed to confirmation bias without understanding the facts.

Note this thesis:
1-Lullaby
Lullabies are rhymed and harmonious words; in the form of poetry and prose according to a certain melody generally sung by mothers but sometimes also by relatives like grandma, aunt, elder sister etc. in order to soothe crying children or make them sleep.1

2- Lullabies Activate the Actions of the Brain

http://ijbssnet.com/journals/Vol_3_No_7 ... 012/35.pdf
Rhymed and harmonious tones can even effect animals to calm them down to sleep.

Elephant Falls Asleep After Lullaby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Rah9hgseA

So the effect that the babies had, has nothing to do with Islam and recitation of specifically the Quran.

What is effective here is the harmonious tones in the recitation not the Quran per se.
The words and verses of the Quran are not the critical factors here.
The recitations of Christian hymns and similar melodic tones will have the same effect regards of what the actual words used.

A Muslim can recite the most violent verses in the Quran in those kind of tones to Muslim babies, non-Muslim babies and adults, there is still an effect of calmness just like any other sound of harmonius tones.
But what you call, " "violent" verses in the quran", are NOT 'violent' in your interpretation of the word. I have you informed you of this before. When are you going to start learning and understanding this?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:24 am
E.g. If a Muslim recites;
"We will kill all of you, bloody kafir non-Muslims" or Quran 5:33 and other violent commands,
The "killing of non muslims" is, by definition, a Truly peaceful and loving behavior.

It is an act that is necessary for the life, which will soon become.

You can believe all you like. But your own personal beliefs are not necessarily true, not necessarily even close to thee Truth.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:24 am
the listener [babies and adults] will still feel the same calm effect from the harmonious recitations.
This is because the slow 'killing' of 'you', non muslims, is Truly harmonious process done peacefully.

Age
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Age » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm

Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
So, the True Self, the real One in 'you', feels good when you are doing what is right and good for every one. As doing right and good for every one not just pleases 'you', but also pleases every one, which in turn pleases the one and only One, correct?
This is how I put it:

Everything that Allah, the All-Knowing commands us to do is right. When I chose to follow the commands of Allah, the Almighty, my intention is to please Allah, the Almighty first and foremost. And when I follow Allah's guidance, then Allah is pleased and when Allah is pleased then I get peace and I feel good. Taking the same example I gave previously: Allah commands me in the Holy Quran to speak good words to others. When I follow Allah's command of good speech, Allah is pleased. And when Allah is pleased with my speech when I speak good words to others, then I feel good and others too feel good subsequently.

The True Self in me is my natural disposition to follow Islam that Allah, the Creator has put in me when He created me. And the Holy Quran is the word of Allah, the All-Knowing. The Holy Quran reminds me of my natural disposition to follow the commands of Allah, the Most Merciful.
You can put it like that, but, if you did, then you would not be exactly aligned with Allah/God.

Remember, whose hands wrote the quran, and through whose interpretation it was written.

You, for example, say everything Allah/God commands us to do is right. But, how do we KNOW 100% without any doubt at all what God/Allah's so called "commands" us to do?

By the way, thee actual Answer is very easy to KNOW.
__________________________________________
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 am


I understand. Thank you for sharing your story with me, I really appreciate it. I am also from a Christian background and in my case I do remember very well that it was Trinitarian Christianity. I would not go as far as saying that I hated every part of Christianity but I did express great hatred for the worshiping of idols when I was about 4-6 years old.
The saying; "Worshiping of idols", just means the worshiping of any thing or any person other than thy True Self.
In my previous post, I was using the following English definition of “idol” as per the standard English dictionary:

idol: a statue that is worshiped as a god

Link to definition: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... glish/idol
I was just using the same definition. I just also added the so called "standard" God/Allah meaning as well.

Are you not aware that some people "idolize" or worship some people as a Allah/God?

____________________________________________
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
As I just said, and what is written in the quran, worhip Allah/God, thy True Self alone.
In the Holy Quran, Allah, the All-Knowing describes His attributes to us. For example, Allah, the Almighty says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the All-Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

    He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god, the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Giver of Peace, the Giver of Security, the Guardian, the Almighty, the Irresistible, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah from what they associate with Him.

    He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventer, the Fashioner. To Him belong the most Beautiful Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Him. [Quran, interpretation of meaninng 59:22-24]
As I said; Allah/God/thy True Self.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Allah, the All-Knowing also says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
    Say, “He is Allah, the One.
    Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute.
    He begets not, nor is He begotten.
    And there is none equivalent to Him.” [Quran, interpretation of meaning 112:1-4]
So, as you can see in these few verses in the Holy Quran, Allah has described Himself as the All-Knower, the Sovereign, the Creator, the Eternal, the Absolute, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Merciful and by the many other Beautiful Names/Attributes.
Which all equates to thy True Self. Or, in physical terms, God/Allah refers to the One physical Universe, Itself, and in the spiritual sense, to thee One Mind, Itself.

All extremely simple and easy really.
______________________________________________
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm


So, in actuality your mom just acknowledged that 'praise be to God' is right, correct?
I thank you for asking me that question. As it is very important, I will give a rather detailed answer to this question of yours.

Firstly, there is no doubt that praising God, the Almighty is always right.
It may be "right" in the context of what God/Allah actually are; what thee Universe actually IS, and what It creates, and what thee Truly OPEN Mind actually IS also, and able to dream up, imagine, and create, but praising Allah/God is a completely unnecessary task, as God/Allah do NOT want nor do NOT need to be praised. Doing so is just a complete waste of time, and a waste of a re-repeating the exact same thing over and over.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
God, the Almighty is the One Who created us and He is the One Who provides us our sustenance. We are always right in being grateful to our Lord, the Almighty for all the countless blessings He has given us and by praising Him we express our gratitude to Him.
As I have said thee Almighty One is NOT a "he".

Sure, be grateful for being ALIVE, it is the only chance 'you' will get, but continually re-repeating praise is completely and utterly unnecessary. God/Allah KNOWS exactly what the thoughts are within the body anyway. So, saying things out loud only pleases some human beings, or, what might be the case, annoys and displeases other human beings.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
But if we are to truly praise God, the Almighty, then it is of the uttermost importance that we have the correct understanding of who is God. As I already told you, I too was raised in the Christian tradition. And as you certainly already know, for a Christian, the way they know who is God, is by reading the Bible.
God/Allah is within. So, reading words translated through human beings may not necessarily provide the most Truest and Accurate picture.

To actually KNOW God/Allah is to just KNOW thy Self, that is; thee True Self.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
When I was discussing with mom on the subject, I told her that worshiping anything other than God, the Almighty is wrong. By quoting from the Bible that she gave me when I was a kid (i.e. a Christian Bible), I told her that Prophet Jesus(pbuh) was not God, the Almighty. For example it is reported in the Bible that Prophet Jesus(pbuh) said the following:
  • “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [John 14:28]
  • By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. [John 5:30]
  • "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. [Luke 18:19]
  • 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” [Matthew 22:35-40]
As you can read from the above quoted biblical verses, Prophet Jesus(pbuh) was ascribing might and goodness only to God, the Almighty. As you must already know, in the Bible, God, the Almighty is sometimes referred to metaphorically as “the Father.” This metaphorical usage first occurred in the Jewish Bible in Exodus in relation to Prophet Jacob/Israel(pbuh) and the Jews too interpret this metaphorically:
  • The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'" (Exodus 4: -21-23)
Everyone easily understand that the description of Prophet Jacob as the firstborn son of God in the above verse can only be interpreted metaphorically as we all know that the real father of Prophet Jacob (pbuh) was Prophet Isaac (pbuh).

When someone reads the Christian Bible, it is clear that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) never claimed to be God, the Almighty. Moreover, Jesus(pbuh) himself is reported to have worshiped only God, the Almighty in the Bible:
  • Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
    Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." [Matthew 26:38-39]
Prophet Jesus(pbuh) is reported in the Christian to have said that he was not all-knowing when he denied knowing the Hour, I.e the end of the world:
  • "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. [Matthew 24:36]
In addition to that, there are many other verses in the Bible which says not to worship anyone or anything other than God, the Almighty. For example, idol worship is completely forbidden in the Bible:
So, now you are just re-repeating what I already said, and KNOW.

By the way, you did not have to re-write any of all of those already written words for me. Unless of course you just repeated this for the sake of others to show them how what I write and say relates to those texts.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
  • (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:
    "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
    "You shall have no other gods before me.
    "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. [Deuteronomy 5: 5-8]
So, after discussing with my mom about all these important verses in her Bible, she understood. And many other Christians as well realize after reading the Christian Bible itself that worshiping Prophet Jesus(pbuh) or the Trinity is the greatest sin.
I think worshipping any person and/or any thing they wrote, like the Bible and the Quran is a great sin.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
For example, the great mathematician and physicist Isaac Newton was also raised in a Trinitarian environment. After having spent about three years studying the Bible and the history of Christianity, Newton also ended up rejecting Trinitarian Christianity in favor of Unitarian Christianity. Wikipedia says something interesting about this:
Quoting others, like people and wikipedia, and using them as examples of what is right or good, us a firm of 'worshipping' some thing other that God/Allah, Itself.
Wikipedia wrote:By 1672, he had started to record his theological researches in notebooks which he showed to no one and which have only recently been examined. They demonstrate an extensive knowledge of early Church writings and show that in the conflict between Athanasius and Arius which defined the Creed, he took the side of Arius, the loser, who rejected the conventional view of the Trinity. Newton "recognized Christ as a divine mediator between God and man, who was subordinate to the Father who created him."[115] He was especially interested in prophecy, but for him, "the great apostasy was trinitarianism."

Newton tried unsuccessfully to obtain one of the two fellowships that exempted the holder from the ordination requirement. At the last moment in 1675 he received a dispensation from the government that excused him and all future holders of the Lucasian chair.

In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin.
You can read more on this on Wikipedia here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton[/quote]

Okay
_________________________________________
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 am
We humans tend to be forgetful. This reminder that God sent to us in the form of the Holy Quran is thus a means to help us stay firm and upright on our natural disposition that He gifted us with.
'Reminders' are with us every day when we are Truly Conscious and Aware.
I totally agree with the above quoted statement of yours. Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness? [Quran, interpretation of meaning 41:53]
  • Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding. [Quran, interpretation of meaning 3:190]
__________________________________________
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
Averroes wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 am
I find it interesting to observe how babies react to the Arabic recitation of the Holy Quran. If you allow me, I will like to share with you some interesting videos on the subject.

1. Reaction of babies (3 min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4slRE3V2y9s
2. Reaction of a fetus (5 min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gUxJKARWUs
3. Reaction of a little girl (3min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGKR7fk_vk
4. Reaction of a BBC reporter (2min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbh-S5uq8SY
I am pretty sure people of every religion (or of every following) could find examples of this, in each case as well.
I am interested to know these examples of which you are pretty sure. Please, can you give some of these examples for the other religions as well like the examples I gave for Islam?
If you read the actual words I wrote again you can clearly see that I said; I am pretty sure that people of every religion or following could find examples.

I do not have any examples, but this because I have not looked for any examples. However, I am pretty sure that the people of every religion or of every following that they believe in, could find examples of this same thing in regards to the own religion or following.

People who believe in things can, and do, find just about absolutely anything that supposedly backs up and supports their beliefs, religion, and following.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
As I said I am a naturally curious person, I like to learn about other people's belief and way of life. If you be interested, here is some more examples of babies listening to the Holy Quran:

Baby listening to Quran: https://youtu.be/HScPi8UwOpg
Another baby listening to Quran : https://youtu.be/WHUhE6MO2Ck

I will like to see such reactions of babies and fetuses for the other religions if you are pretty sure of having them. I thank you in advance in case you might want to share them with me.
As I said I do not have any examples so you will have to ask the people of particular religions if they have any or if they could find any. I am pretty sure what you find is if they do not have any nor can find any, them someone will make some up. Like putting music, sayings to a video of a fetus moving or not moving, and trying anything to soothe a crying baby. As for infants walking into malls in an absolutely new country, with absolutely new experiences, then you will find they appear surprised, just like adults are but they have learned to suppress their emotion of shock or of beingbsurorised more than the younger ones have.
_____________________________________________
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
In other words, what God so called "implanted" in us is actually just God, Itself. The Knowing of what is right and good in Life, within us ALL, is just God/Allah, Itself, guiding us ALL to do what is right and good, which will create the life that we ALL Truly want to live in. That is; Peace and Harmony together as One.
I believe that what Allah, the All-knowing has implanted in us is the knowledge of Him and knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong.
If God/Allah implanted in you the knowledge that God/Allah is a "he", then God/Allah did not do a very good job of implanting the true, right, and correct knowledge of 'God/Allah.

The knowledge of what is right and wrong in Life is within us ALL. Some just have absolutely no knowledge of how to distinguish between the two.

However, I do not believe that Allah Himself is in me or in any one of His creation. There are many commonsensical reasons for why I believe that. For example, as I previously quoted in the Holy Quran, Allah describes Himself in the Holy Quran as the All-Knowing. If Allah was in me then I would be All-Knowing. But I am very far from being all knowing.[/quote]

If God/Allah is in 'you', then that certainly does not instantly make 'you' God/Allah. So, just because God/Allah AND the knowledge of ALL is within you, the that does not mean that you are Conscious and Aware of It. Just like you are not yet Aware of how to properly and correctly distinguish between what is right and wrong in Life, yet you even just said that that knowledge had been implanted in you already.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
I believe that God, the Almighty Himself is separate from His creation. Also, as I previously quoted from the Holy Quran, Allah says that He is Perfect, All-Knowing, Eternal, without a beginning and with no end, whereas I am ignorant of many things, very far from perfect, and I had a beginning when Allah gave me life and I will have an end when the Angel of death will come to take my soul. In fact, no one other than Allah has the attributes of Allah. As Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran in chapter 112 verse 4 already quoted: “there is none equivalent to Him.”
Yes, and as I said there is only One Universe and only One Mind. There is none equivalent to these.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Moreover, Allah describes Himself in the Holy Quran as the Almighty; everything is under His complete control whereas I do not even know if I will live to see tomorrow! I am completely dependent on Allah, the Almighty for my existence, whereas Allah is the Self-Subsisting.
Where is this absolutely absurd and distorted thought that 'you' could even be remotely anything like God/Allah?

Why are you talking like this now?
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
For all these reasons, I do not believe Allah is in me or in any one of His creation.
How could God/Allah be separate from thee One and only infinite and eternal Universe?

Where would God/Allah be if not within?
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
But I believe that the knowledge of the existence of Allah as our Creator and Lord was implanted in me and all human beings by Allah when we were being created. I believe Allah, the Almighty created everything and everything is under His complete control as Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran:
  • Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is a Guardian over all things. (Quran, interpretation of meaning 39:62)
Believe whatever you like, but are you aware that you are not OPEN to thee actual Truth when you are believing that you already know the truth.
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
  • Is it not He Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them. Yes indeed! He is the Supreme Creator, the All-Knower.
    His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it "Be", and it is. (Quran, interpretation of meaning 36:81-82)
I thank you for taking the time to engage in such a courteous and interesting conversation with me. This has been so far a conversation I have much enjoyed. I wish you a nice day.
Just out if curiosity, if God/Allah could implant the knowledge of what is right and wrong in Life, and the knowledge of God/Allah Itself, in 'you', then why would God/Allah not implant Its Self, thee True Self, within 'you' also?

Age
Posts: 4707
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Age » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
This is how I put it:

Everything that Allah, the All-Knowing commands us to do is right. When I chose to follow the commands of Allah, the Almighty, my intention is to please Allah, the Almighty first and foremost. And when I follow Allah's guidance, then Allah is pleased and when Allah is pleased then I get peace and I feel good. Taking the same example I gave previously: Allah commands me in the Holy Quran to speak good words to others. When I follow Allah's command of good speech, Allah is pleased. And when Allah is pleased with my speech when I speak good words to others, then I feel good and others too feel good subsequently.

The True Self in me is my natural disposition to follow Islam that Allah, the Creator has put in me when He created me. And the Holy Quran is the word of Allah, the All-Knowing. The Holy Quran reminds me of my natural disposition to follow the commands of Allah, the Most Merciful.
It may not be applicable to you, supposedly a good human being.

However,
  • 1. DNA wise, all humans are "programmed" with the potential to be very evil.
Whether one does good or bad/evil has absolutely nothing at all to do with dna.

EVERY adult including 'you', "veritas aequitas", does good and evil.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
2. Appx 20% of all humans are born with an active evil tendencies of various degrees.
Again, just plain false AND wrong.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
3. As such, 20% of all Muslims i.e. 300 million are born with an active evil tendency - these are evil prone Muslims.[/list].
LOL
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
As you had stated a Muslim is obliged to comply with the commands of Allah within the Quran.

54% [3,400++] of the Quran's 6236 verses are inherently evil and contemptuous towards non-Muslims to the extreme non-Muslims be killed upon the slightest hint of threats [fasadin] to Islam -Quran 5:33.
And so what?

You have been informed, enough times now, how there is nothing wrong with this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
As such, Islam as represented by it Constitution, i.e. the evil laden Quran is inherently evil albeit containing good elements for the Muslims.
Well you have completely and utterly twisted and distorted this from thee actual Truth.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
Whilst you being a good human being may not obey the evil commands within the 3400++ verses in the Quran, the evil prone Muslims will feast on these evil laden verses and commit the most terrible evil acts upon non-Muslims.
If it is true about what they say in regards to what people see in, and say about, "others" and the "world" around them, and how that is just a reflection of them selves, then 'you', "veritas aequitas", must be one the most evil, so called "prone", people around.

If all you can see is "evil" in those messages, then if you were a follower of the quran, then you would be one of the most dangerous terrorists in the "world" now.

Lucky for all of us you have a very strong hatred of Islam, and/or of muslims.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 am
These evil prones as Muslims has to do what Allah commanded them to do, else in their view they will end up in Hell.
This is so evident since the advent of Islam in the 7th century to the present.

It is very unfortunate to humanity, such a religion is embedded with so much evil elements that catalyze the evil prone believers to commit terrible evil acts upon non-believers.
I have informed you before; the word 'islam' just means peace, and, a 'muslim' is just a follower of islam/peace.

Seeing things the way you do here makes you one of the most dangerous separatists in the "world", which every one would be best be very wary of.

Averroes
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Averroes » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Remember, whose hands wrote the quran, and through whose interpretation it was written.
I think it is important that I mention that the Holy Quran is an oral tradition. What this means is that the Holy Quran is a revelation from Allah, the Almighty given orally (i.e through speech) to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) through Angel Gabriel (pbuh). Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then memorized it and taught it to his companions who in turn memorized it and passed it down until it reached us today. And today there are millions of Muslims as from the age of 3 years old upwards who have memorized the whole Holy Quran by heart. The reason why so many Muslims are able to memorize the whole Holy Quran by heart is because Allah, the Most Merciful has made the Holy Quran easy for remembering. Indeed, Allah, the All-Wise says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 54:40]
So even if all the written words of the Holy Quran were to disappear on earth, it will still be preserved in the hearts of millions of Muslims by the permission of Allah.

Now, I think this is a very interesting fact in relation to our present discussion, as we have been talking about the True Self which is the natural disposition to follow Islam which God, the Almighty has implanted in us. As we have been saying, God, the Almighty has implanted in us the knowledge of His existence as our Creator and Lord, and also the knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong. This innate knowledge was already in ourselves when we were born. As the Holy Quran is a reminder to our natural disposition to follow Islam (i.e. our True Self) then it stands to reason that the best place for it to be kept is inside ourselves. So that is why all Muslims are encouraged to memorize the Holy Quran so as to refresh our natural disposition or True Self (fitrah in Arabic) of following Islam. The Holy Quran written down on paper is good, but this is not the best place where it can be! The best place for the Holy Quran is in our hearts and mind.

_______________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
You, for example, say everything Allah/God commands us to do is right. But, how do we KNOW 100% without any doubt at all what God/Allah's so called "commands" us to do?
This is a very good question, thank you for asking that.

In the Holy Quran, Allah, the Almighty has set forth His commands, and everything Allah commands us to do is right. So you are asking, how do I know with 100% certainty, without any doubt whatsoever that it is from Allah?
Answer:
In the Holy Quran itself, Allah, the Almighty says that it is from Him:
  • The revelation of the Book is from Allah the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 45:2]
  • The Most Gracious!
    He taught the Quran.
    He created man.
    He taught him speech. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 55:1-4]
  • A revelation from the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
    A Book whose Verses have been detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know,
    A giver of glad tidings and a warner; but most of them turn away, so they do not hear. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 41:2-4]
  • Thus Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise, reveals to you [O Muhammad] and to those before you. [Quran, interpretation of meaning 42: 3]
__________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm


The saying; "Worshiping of idols", just means the worshiping of any thing or any person other than thy True Self.
In my previous post, I was using the following English definition of “idol” as per the standard English dictionary:

idol: a statue that is worshiped as a god

Link to definition: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... glish/idol
I was just using the same definition. I just also added the so called "standard" God/Allah meaning as well.

Are you not aware that some people "idolize" or worship some people as a Allah/God?
Indeed, I am also aware of the metaphorical meaning of the noun “idol” and thus of the verb “to idolize.” But I meant the literal sense of the word “idol” in the previous post on which you were commenting, when I said the following:
Averroes wrote:I would not go as far as saying that I hated every part of Christianity but I did express great hatred for the worshiping of idols when I was about 4-6 years old.
It was the literal meaning of an idol that I had in mind when I wrote that statement, which meaning is expressed in a standard English dictionary previously quoted as well. There is a story behind that. When I was about 4-6 years old, I used to mock at some statues/idols which some people would worship. I used to go up to these statues and tell them with a menacing tone, “if you are god, then why do you remain here all day? Don’t you have better things to do?” I would then gather some saliva in my mouth and intend to spit in their direction. Once my mom overheard my little monologue and lightly scolded me. After that I would then wait when she was not watching to continue mocking these statues/idols. The good old times!
____________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Which all equates to thy True Self. Or, in physical terms, God/Allah refers to the One physical Universe, Itself, and in the spiritual sense, to thee One Mind, Itself.
So, if I understand you correctly, you conceive of God as the universe itself. Moreover, you also believe that God is inside of you as you said the following as well:
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
In other words, what God so called "implanted" in us is actually just God, Itself.
I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. However, even though I respect the right for you to hold whatever belief that you have, for me I will never be able to hold those beliefs. The reason being that it does not make sense to me. For example, a human heart weighs about a half pound, and as my heart is in me, so my overall body weight must be at least a half pound. Now, you believe the universe is God and God is inside us. We also know that the universe is tremendously heavy according to science. So if it were true that the universe was inside me, then I should be at least as extremely heavy as the universe! But according to the scale, I am of average weight for my height and I not even 200 pound! So clearly according to this commonsensical argument, it follows that God cannot be the universe and God cannot be inside of me. May I respectfully ask you how much you weigh? I am not asking for any exact number; an upper limit or a range would be fine.
______________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Sure, be grateful for being ALIVE, it is the only chance 'you' will get, but continually re-repeating praise is completely and utterly unnecessary. God/Allah KNOWS exactly what the thoughts are within the body anyway. So, saying things out loud only pleases some human beings, or, what might be the case, annoys and displeases other human beings.
You said that some human beings are pleased when I praise my Lord, the Almighty and some others are annoyed by it. May I ask you in which group do you belong to? I mean, does it annoy you that I praise my Creator, the Almighty; or are you pleased when I praise my Lord; or neither, that is you are neither pleased nor annoyed by it?
___________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
By the way, you did not have to re-write any of all of those already written words for me. Unless of course you just repeated this for the sake of others to show them how what I write and say relates to those texts.
Yes indeed you got that right. As you rightly suspected, even though we were both raised in the Christian tradition and know much of the Bible, there are many intelligent readers on the forum who have had a different upbringing and might not know of the verses in that text. And besides, even if we already more or less know the Bible, sometimes a reminder of its content can be useful.

But there is also the intellectually challenged and lazy poster Veritas Aequitas who, as you can see, is reading my posts to gain some knowledge for himself in-order to be less ignorant. So, for the special condition of Veritas Aequitas, I have to go very slowly and expound everything in minute detail and spoonfeed him for him to stand a chance of understanding. Even through this spoonfeeding, it is not guaranteed that he will be able to understand though! And as he is a Buddhist (he took the vow of the bodhisattva) as well, I have to also think about his overall condition wherever possible and make everything very clear.
__________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm


I am pretty sure people of every religion (or of every following) could find examples of this, in each case as well.
I am interested to know these examples of which you are pretty sure. Please, can you give some of these examples for the other religions as well like the examples I gave for Islam?
If you read the actual words I wrote again you can clearly see that I said; I am pretty sure that people of every religion or following could find examples.

I do not have any examples, but this because I have not looked for any examples.
Alright, I thank you for this information. So, you were pretty sure of something you had not even looked into. By the way, this is called wishful thinking and in logic, wishful thinking is a logical fallacy.

For myself, I always try to investigate beforehand and it is only when I have the evidence that I get certainty. I was asking you for these examples because I did investigate it for the other religions and I did not find anything similar to the Holy Quran recitation for any other religions. So I thought, as you were pretty sure, may be you had found something interesting on the subject. But alas, this is not the case. But anyway, if you find for the other religions something similar to the Quran recitation examples I gave and you are interested in sharing then you can still post it here to inform me at a time of your convenience. So, the question is still open.
________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
As I said I am a naturally curious person, I like to learn about other people's belief and way of life. If you be interested, here is some more examples of babies listening to the Holy Quran:

Baby listening to Quran: https://youtu.be/HScPi8UwOpg
Another baby listening to Quran : https://youtu.be/WHUhE6MO2Ck

I will like to see such reactions of babies and fetuses for the other religions if you are pretty sure of having them. I thank you in advance in case you might want to share them with me.
As I said I do not have any examples so you will have to ask the people of particular religions if they have any or if they could find any.
The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.
_____________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
In other words, what God so called "implanted" in us is actually just God, Itself. The Knowing of what is right and good in Life, within us ALL, is just God/Allah, Itself, guiding us ALL to do what is right and good, which will create the life that we ALL Truly want to live in. That is; Peace and Harmony together as One.
I believe that what Allah, the All-knowing has implanted in us is the knowledge of Him and knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong. However, I do not believe that Allah Himself is in me or in any one of His creation. There are many commonsensical reasons for why I believe that. For example, as I previously quoted in the Holy Quran, Allah describes Himself in the Holy Quran as the All-Knowing. If Allah was in me then I would be All-Knowing. But I am very far from being all knowing.
If God/Allah is in 'you', then that certainly does not instantly make 'you' God/Allah. So, just because God/Allah AND the knowledge of ALL is within you, the that does not mean that you are Conscious and Aware of It. Just like you are not yet Aware of how to properly and correctly distinguish between what is right and wrong in Life, yet you even just said that that knowledge had been implanted in you already.
I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. If you allow me now, there are some clarifying questions on your beliefs that I will like to ask. May I ask: do you think that all knowledge, past, present and future is already within you at the time that you are reading this? If so, what is the method you use to access this knowledge if it is not available to you instantly? I want to know more about what your perspective is on this if you be interested to share of course.

As far as I am concerned, I do not believe that all knowledge is within me. I believe that there are many things that I do not know and cannot even know. But I am interested in knowing your perspective on this and hopefully learn a couple of more things about your beliefs and way of life.

I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I wish you and the forum members who are reading this a nice day.
___________________________

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Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Sculptor » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:54 am

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am

I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I wish you and the forum members who are reading this a nice day.
___________________________
Why did Allah create COVID-19?
Why has the Harj been banned?
Why cannot Allah protect the faithful from the virus?
Why should the faithful fear the virus?

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Sculptor
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Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Sculptor » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 am

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?

Averroes
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Averroes » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:37 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 am
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?
Very good questions were put to me. Who is asking those questions?

Age
Posts: 4707
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Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Age » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Remember, whose hands wrote the quran, and through whose interpretation it was written.
I think it is important that I mention that the Holy Quran is an oral tradition. What this means is that the Holy Quran is a revelation from Allah, the Almighty given orally (i.e through speech) to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) through Angel Gabriel (pbuh).
EXACTLY THE SAME as with EVERY other religion.

But, remember, whose "ears", brains, and hands ALL the writings, books, and teachings came from and through. In case you keep forgetting it was human beings' "ears", brains, and hands.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then memorized it and taught it to his companions who in turn memorized it and passed it down until it reached us today.
In more or less the EXACT SAME WAY the bible and other writings, books, and teachings are passed on down, and through.

You can 'try to' "justify" that the words in the quran are the EXACT SAME WORDS given by Allah, in the exact same way so called "christians" will 'try to' "justify" that the words in the bible are the EXACT SAME WORDS given by God, but honestly, if all of you are true to yourselves, then you would admit that the words in those, and ALL, books are just a translation by human beings. And, what is very obvious is human beings are not the best at sharing the absolute true, right, and correct knowledge in the EXACT SAME WAY as it was received. Any game of 'chinese whispers' or 'telephone' will evidence, show, and prove this FACT.

So, it is about time human beings STOP with this rubbish that the words in these books is the absolute word of Allah/God. Obviously they are NOT.

And just as obvious is Allah/God can reveal thee Truth orally to any and ALL human beings. The reason WHY none of 'you' can actually hear and SEE thee actual Truth, is because you do NOT 'listen' to It. You all much prefer to 'listen' to what you already BELIEVE is true.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
And today there are millions of Muslims as from the age of 3 years old upwards who have memorized the whole Holy Quran by heart.
So what?

Are you suggesting that because a child can memorize a book, therefore the book is the absolute word of some 'thing'?

If a child can memorize a book, then that means a child can memorize a book, and not much else, other than just how smart young children are and thus just how clever the human brain really IS.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
The reason why so many Muslims are able to memorize the whole Holy Quran by heart is because Allah, the Most Merciful has made the Holy Quran easy for remembering. Indeed, Allah, the All-Wise says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 54:40]
So even if all the written words of the Holy Quran were to disappear on earth, it will still be preserved in the hearts of millions of Muslims by the permission of Allah.
Well talk about misinterpreting things.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Now, I think this is a very interesting fact in relation to our present discussion, as we have been talking about the True Self which is the natural disposition to follow Islam which God, the Almighty has implanted in us.
That is NOT what I have been saying NOR meaning at all. That is just YOUR 'interpretation' of things. You misinterpret what I say, and 'try' and match what I say with your already held beliefs and assumptions, because your already held beliefs and assumptions do not allow you to see the actual Truth of things. Your already held beliefs and assumptions allow you to only see what confirms your already held biases, which is clearly obvious here.

Humans are born with a natural disposition to be peaceful. But as they become human beings, following other human beings, then learn to be greedy, selfish, and obviously non-peaceful, just like EVERY adult human being IS. But these 'beings' are NOT the real One they can Be. The real One, within EVERY human 'being' is the Almighty Being God/Allah It Self, which is the One True Self of EVERY one.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
As we have been saying, God, the Almighty has implanted in us the knowledge of His existence as our Creator and Lord, and also the knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong.
I have said this Knowledge is within 'us'. But I would also like to make it clear that you, nor no other adult human being, came to be an adult human being knowing how to actually distinguish between right and wrong, and this is WHY you still do wrong things today, when this is written, and are not even yet aware of your wrongdoing. In fact, some of the doing you do, which you say is right and good, is in fact the very opposite as it is wrong and bad.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
This innate knowledge was already in ourselves when we were born. As the Holy Quran is a reminder to our natural disposition to follow Islam (i.e. our True Self) then it stands to reason that the best place for it to be kept is inside ourselves. So that is why all Muslims are encouraged to memorize the Holy Quran so as to refresh our natural disposition or True Self (fitrah in Arabic) of following Islam. The Holy Quran written down on paper is good, but this is not the best place where it can be! The best place for the Holy Quran is in our hearts and mind.
The only purpose of the 'heart' is to pump blood. The Knowledge of what is right and good is, however, at the center of us ALL. In the One and only Mind, which we ALL share and have access to, which is just God/Allah in the Spiritual sense anyway.

Do you really need to be reminded to follow peace? How much have you people strayed away from your natural disposition if you need to open up a book to be reminded that you want to be happy and living in peace and harmony?

Has the 'love of money' really distracted you all so much?

_______________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
You, for example, say everything Allah/God commands us to do is right. But, how do we KNOW 100% without any doubt at all what God/Allah's so called "commands" us to do?
This is a very good question, thank you for asking that.

In the Holy Quran, Allah, the Almighty has set forth His commands, and everything Allah commands us to do is right. So you are asking, how do I know with 100% certainty, without any doubt whatsoever that it is from Allah?
Answer:
In the Holy Quran itself, Allah, the Almighty says that it is from Him:
Well you have certainly been misguided COMPLETELY.

Are you aware that so called "christians" say the EXACT SAME THING in relation to "their" book?

Are you aware that that "learning to memorizing as a child what the "book" says" has distorted you to such an extent that you actually now believe that what you said here is absolutely and irrefutably TRUE and that there is nothing else in the Universe that could show you otherwise?

Are you AWARE that the only way you Truly KNOW some thing is from within YOU, and not from some words written down on a piece of paper from some human being?
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
  • The revelation of the Book is from Allah the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 45:2]
  • The Most Gracious!
    He taught the Quran.
    He created man.
    He taught him speech. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 55:1-4]
Please from now on, NEVER talk and speak like this again. You "muslims" and "christians" become utterly BORING.

If you cannot answers very simple clarifying questions without mentioning the bible/quran, Allah, and God, as though you could even back up and support what you are saying, then please do not say anything at all.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
  • A revelation from the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
    A Book whose Verses have been detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know,
    A giver of glad tidings and a warner; but most of them turn away, so they do not hear. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 41:2-4]
  • Thus Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise, reveals to you [O Muhammad] and to those before you. [Quran, interpretation of meaning 42: 3]
__________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm

In my previous post, I was using the following English definition of “idol” as per the standard English dictionary:

idol: a statue that is worshiped as a god

Link to definition: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... glish/idol
I was just using the same definition. I just also added the so called "standard" God/Allah meaning as well.

Are you not aware that some people "idolize" or worship some people as a Allah/God?
Indeed, I am also aware of the metaphorical meaning of the noun “idol” and thus of the verb “to idolize.” But I meant the literal sense of the word “idol” in the previous post on which you were commenting, when I said the following:
Averroes wrote:I would not go as far as saying that I hated every part of Christianity but I did express great hatred for the worshiping of idols when I was about 4-6 years old.
Yet here you are now, older, and worshiping idols incessantly.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
It was the literal meaning of an idol that I had in mind when I wrote that statement, which meaning is expressed in a standard English dictionary previously quoted as well. There is a story behind that. When I was about 4-6 years old, I used to mock at some statues/idols which some people would worship. I used to go up to these statues and tell them with a menacing tone, “if you are god, then why do you remain here all day? Don’t you have better things to do?” I would then gather some saliva in my mouth and intend to spit in their direction. Once my mom overheard my little monologue and lightly scolded me. After that I would then wait when she was not watching to continue mocking these statues/idols. The good old times!
And so you should mock and spit on "idols". The quran, the bible, the mosque, and the church just being more, non moving idol, "idols", which deserve to be mocked and spat on. They are absolutely NOTHING, which should be idolized at all.

Spirit, Allah, God, and Enlightenment is WITHIN. So, there is absolutely NO need for any of this "stuff" that is idolized.
____________________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Which all equates to thy True Self. Or, in physical terms, God/Allah refers to the One physical Universe, Itself, and in the spiritual sense, to thee One Mind, Itself.
So, if I understand you correctly, you conceive of God as the universe itself. Moreover, you also believe that God is inside of you as you said the following as well:
Age wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:24 pm
In other words, what God so called "implanted" in us is actually just God, Itself.
Firstly, I do NOT believe any thing.

Secondly, If God/Allah is the Creator of EVERY physical thing, then the ONLY thing that can, and does in fact, do this is thee Universe Itself. So, what the Creator IS, in the physical sense, is just thee One and only Universe, Itself.

How human beings have evolved to have the ability of being able to learn, understand, and reason ANY and EVERY thing, is from a Truly OPEN Mind. This is where ALL of our creativity comes from, which is what has allowed us to be able to be the Creator of ALL the things that we have created, and the Creator of our own destiny. The Truly OPEN Mind has given us our Free Will to do and create whatever we want and like. If God/Allah is the Creator of EVERY thing, then in the Spiritual sense, God is just thee One and only Mind, Itself.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.
I do NOT have any beliefs at all, whatsoever.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
However, even though I respect the right for you to hold whatever belief that you have, for me I will never be able to hold those beliefs.
I do NOT want you to have nor hold ANY beliefs at all. I would just like you to be able to back up and support absolutely EVERY claim you make. Telling me your beliefs does NOT back up and support your claims, and, telling me that the words written down by human beings, which have been translated countless times also does not back up and support your claims. I suggest if you want to make a claim, then you have at least some thing to back up and support your claims BEFORE you make the actual claim.

SEE, absolutely every word I have written, I can back up and support them with actually evidence that can prove them True. Whereas, see what you have written, how much do you reckon you can prove True with evidence?

Whatever answer you provide I can ask you clarifying questions until you can prove what you say is True.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
The reason being that it does not make sense to me.
Of course NOT. You have to show some interest, through curiosity, to understand something, which on first glance does not make sense.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
For example, a human heart weighs about a half pound, and as my heart is in me, so my overall body weight must be at least a half pound. Now, you believe the universe is God and God is inside us.
Did you NOT read what I wrote? I said in the physical sense God is the Universe, Itself, AND, in the spiritual sense God is the Mind, Itself. How much does the Mind weigh? Has anyone actually seen thee Mind? Where is thee Mind? Is it within you, or outside of you? In fact do you even know what the 'you' is yet?

If you want to understand what I am saying, so that it makes sense to you, then there is a whole lot more other knowledge that needs to be understood and grasp first.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
We also know that the universe is tremendously heavy according to science.
The Universe, Itself, cannot weigh anything, because there is NOTHING to weigh It in relation to.

All the weight so called "scientists" of physical things is in relation to be against earth's gravity. A particle or object of matter no big nor how small it is FLOATING in so called "space" does not weigh anything. Now, transfer that thought to the WHOLE Universe, Itself, which is ALL space and ALL matter, then what could It be so called "heavy" in relation to exactly?
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
So if it were true that the universe was inside me,
But I NEVER said the Universe was inside of 'you', which, by the way, you are still uncertain of what the 'you' is anyway, but anyway, you are only looking at this, from this perspective, because it fits in with and suits your already held beliefs and assumptions about what is true and false.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
then I should be at least as extremely heavy as the universe! But according to the scale, I am of average weight for my height and I not even 200 pound! So clearly according to this commonsensical argument, it follows that God cannot be the universe and God cannot be inside of me. May I respectfully ask you how much you weigh? I am not asking for any exact number; an upper limit or a range would be fine.
Who AND what 'i' am actually has NO weight? And, conversely,

Who AND what 'I' am actually has NO weight as well.

But we are a long, long way off this making any sense to 'you' yet.

But, since I NEVER said the physical Universe was in 'you', which would be nonsensical to say, and would be very comical to even imagine and assume I was saying that. But what I was saying AND MEANING is God, in the spiritual sense, which is thee Mind is within 'you'.

I have suggested this once or twice before, if you ask clarifying questions BEFORE you make assumptions, then you will not be as wrong as you can be or are, as many times as you can be or are.

______________________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Sure, be grateful for being ALIVE, it is the only chance 'you' will get, but continually re-repeating praise is completely and utterly unnecessary. God/Allah KNOWS exactly what the thoughts are within the body anyway. So, saying things out loud only pleases some human beings, or, what might be the case, annoys and displeases other human beings.
You said that some human beings are pleased when I praise my Lord, the Almighty and some others are annoyed by it.
Did I? Is that EXACTLY what I have said?

May I ask you in which group do you belong to? [/quote]

There is NO group.

Some human beings find some things pleasing sometimes, the same person or group of people that find some thing pleasing might not another time or might not any other time. There is NO one right or wrong thing here.

Any one and every one can find some things pleasing and/or displeasing, some times. It all depends on what one is feeling and thinking at the time, which is depended upon what they have previously experienced.

If I ask you a clarifying question, for example, and you tell me the first time, "Because it is written in the book", then I am pleased. You answered my clarifying question with the best answer you have at that time. But, if to further clarify that answer you by saying a second time, "Because it is written in the book", then I feel more displeased, and I allow a sense of annoyance to also arise.

See, if and when one is displeased or pleased is ALL depended upon how one is thinking AND feeling at the time, which OBVIOUSLY is NEVER the exact same from one moment to the next.

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I mean, does it annoy you that I praise my Creator, the Almighty; or are you pleased when I praise my Lord; or neither, that is you are neither pleased nor annoyed by it?
When you tell me that your praise 'our' Creator and NOT 'your' Creator ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you provide me with the reason WHY do you do this ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you do both of these more than once, then the unnecessary need to do it displeases me more with each time you do it.

But do not let how I feel or see things from stopping you doing what you BELIEVE you 'have to' do.

Your own already held BELIEFS will override absolutely ANY thing, anyway.
___________________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
By the way, you did not have to re-write any of all of those already written words for me. Unless of course you just repeated this for the sake of others to show them how what I write and say relates to those texts.
Yes indeed you got that right. As you rightly suspected, even though we were both raised in the Christian tradition and know much of the Bible,
But I was NEVER raised in the so called "christian" tradition. Where did you get this absurd belief or assumption from?

Look at the actual words that I used, and NOT what you are assuming I am saying and meaning.

If you clarified with me BEFORE you wrote this, then we would not be wasting our times now with these extra words.

I know as much of the bible as I know of the quran, that is; NOTHING.

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
there are many intelligent readers on the forum who have had a different upbringing and might not know of the verses in that text. And besides, even if we already more or less know the Bible, sometimes a reminder of its content can be useful.
But none of you so called "christians" and so called "muslims" KNOW the bible NOR the quran YET. That is the very reason WHY the HATRED of each other and the KILLING of each other by BOTH OF YOU, continues.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
But there is also the intellectually challenged and lazy poster Veritas Aequitas who, as you can see, is reading my posts to gain some knowledge for himself in-order to be less ignorant.
But the poster known as "veritas aequitas" is NO more 'intellectually challenged' than you and i are. That poster just has different beliefs than you do.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
So, for the special condition of Veritas Aequitas, I have to go very slowly and expound everything in minute detail and spoonfeed him for him to stand a chance of understanding.
Did you forget already that what I say does not make sense to you. How much detail and how much time would it take for you to understand me FULLY?

By the way, what you want to teach the one known as "veritas aequitas" will NEVER be understood, nor accepted, by that one. This is because that one is STUCK and BLINDED by their own already gained and strongly held BELIEFS. No matter how much time and detail you provide one with a BELIEF. While a human being maintains a BELIEF they are absolutely incapable of comprehending and understanding anything contrary to that BELIEF.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Even through this spoonfeeding, it is not guaranteed that he will be able to understand though! And as he is a Buddhist (he took the vow of the bodhisattva) as well, I have to also think about his overall condition wherever possible and make everything very clear.
__________________________________________

Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm


I am interested to know these examples of which you are pretty sure. Please, can you give some of these examples for the other religions as well like the examples I gave for Islam?
If you read the actual words I wrote again you can clearly see that I said; I am pretty sure that people of every religion or following could find examples.

I do not have any examples, but this because I have not looked for any examples.
Alright, I thank you for this information. So, you were pretty sure of something you had not even looked into. By the way, this is called wishful thinking and in logic, wishful thinking is a logical fallacy.
You MISSED my point once more.

I have NOT personally looked for the examples you want. But, I have experienced and observed a lot of human beings who will look for things that back up and support their already held beliefs and assumptions and so have also gained things that do back up and support their already held beliefs and assumptions. This behavior that I see and observe very regularly is called 'confirmation bias'.

Now, if you want to REALLY find an example in the WHOLE of the human society where a fetus, a baby, a child, and an adult has shown some kind of soothing or emotional reaction to some sort of musical melody, speech, music itself, humming, versing, or anything other noise, then I am pretty sure that you yourself could find it, that is; if you REALLY wanted to.

With the invent of the internet and personal videos on the internet I am pretty sure there would be a few examples there. See, I do not care to look for any because I have NO underlying belief that I am trying to back up and support. But, I have witnessed a lot of human beings show me things, which they say backs up and supports their already gained beliefs. Therefore, I am pretty sure that if a person believes that nursery rhymes are good for "heart" and the "soul" of the young, then they could find examples of when reading or playing music to the young soothes them. I am also pretty sure that there would be examples of adults being moved to tears when pieces of the bible are read out to them. But, again, I have no purpose to look for any, and so I will not.

If you think and/or believe that what I am saying is wishful thinking and a logical fallacy, then so be it. I do not care. I just KNOW that it is NOT "wishful thinking" because I do NOT 'wish' for any examples to be there or to not be there.

By the way, are you wishing for one way or the other? If there are examples that what you showed can happen in other religions and other followings, then what would that do to your examples, which you were trying to use as 'evidence' for one thing or another?

Do you 'wish' there are other examples, or are you hoping and 'wishing' there is not? Either way, is that "wishful thinking"? And, if it is, then according to your so called "logic", then that is a "logical fallacy".

But, then again, you might not care one iota if some one does provide examples that what you used as "evidence" for your religion and following can also appear in other religions and/or followings. But, if you really do not care, then are you REALLY being Honest here?

See, what I suggest is you read the actual words that I use and write, clarify with me on them, BEFORE you start making assumptions like you have been here. That way you will find yourself being less wrong, less of the time.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
For myself, I always try to investigate beforehand and it is only when I have the evidence that I get certainty.
The very reason WHY I specifically used the words, "I am 'pretty sure' ", is because I was NOT certain.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I was asking you for these examples because I did investigate it for the other religions and I did not find anything similar to the Holy Quran recitation for any other religions.
How far afield did you supposedly "look" and "investigate"? The amount of personal videos and personal messages on the internet is rather vast and large and only getting bigger by the minute. Are you absolutely certain you did a 'thorough' investigation?
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
So I thought, as you were pretty sure, may be you had found something interesting on the subject. But alas, this is not the case. But anyway, if you find for the other religions something similar to the Quran recitation examples I gave and you are interested in sharing then you can still post it here to inform me at a time of your convenience. So, the question is still open.
But I have absolutely NO interest at all if there is any or not.

I just said I am pretty sure you could FIND SOMEONE who could find examples.

Just like you were very quickly able to so call "find" so called "information" or "examples" that "back up" and "support" your own already held beliefs and assumptions, then I think what you will actually FIND is OTHERS that can also very quickly "find" so called "information" or "examples" that "back up" and "support" their own already held beliefs and assumptions.

See, human beings are so ready and so quick to look for and find 'that' what they call "evidence" for their already held beliefs and assumptions, that what I think you will FIND is there are people who could find what you were asking for. One only has to be Truly looking for those people to FIND them.

Or, one might just have to do an internet search to find what they are looking for.

What was the specific thing you wanted examples of again. Maybe if you type that into an internet search engine, then you might get what you are supposedly "looking for"? Or, maybe if you write it down here in very specific words 'that' what you are looking for, and then I could do a search for it. But, obviously to get the example of what you are looking for, then you have to be very specific in what it is that you are looking for. For example, do you want an example of a crying baby being soothed from the music of a religion or any other following other than islam, then, if so, then just say that say that to people of another religion, or following, and as I said, I am pretty sure someone would even go and make a video if they believed that would make you sway over to their "side" or over to their "way of thinking", or at least sway you away from your "side" or away from your "way of thinking".
________________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm
As I said I am a naturally curious person, I like to learn about other people's belief and way of life. If you be interested, here is some more examples of babies listening to the Holy Quran:

Baby listening to Quran: https://youtu.be/HScPi8UwOpg
Another baby listening to Quran : https://youtu.be/WHUhE6MO2Ck

I will like to see such reactions of babies and fetuses for the other religions if you are pretty sure of having them. I thank you in advance in case you might want to share them with me.
As I said I do not have any examples so you will have to ask the people of particular religions if they have any or if they could find any.
The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.
Yes I have NOTHING on this, but this is because I do NOT want to have ANYTHING either way. I do NOT "pick sides".

I have also said if you REALLY want some example, then you could find some one who could get it for you, even if they just made the video themselves.

Besides all of this, your "examples" do NOT prove any actual thing and are NOT any actual evidence for one particular thing or another.

Also, if you want to go down the "burden of proof" line, then remember you are claiming that those video examples supposedly "prove" some thing or other. So, how about you make it absolutely clear what they are supposedly "proving" exactly, and then explain HOW and WHY those video examples supposedly "prove" what you say and allege they are "proving"?
_____________________________________________

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:24 pm


I believe that what Allah, the All-knowing has implanted in us is the knowledge of Him and knowledge of how to distinguish right and wrong. However, I do not believe that Allah Himself is in me or in any one of His creation. There are many commonsensical reasons for why I believe that. For example, as I previously quoted in the Holy Quran, Allah describes Himself in the Holy Quran as the All-Knowing. If Allah was in me then I would be All-Knowing. But I am very far from being all knowing.
If God/Allah is in 'you', then that certainly does not instantly make 'you' God/Allah. So, just because God/Allah AND the knowledge of ALL is within you, the that does not mean that you are Conscious and Aware of It. Just like you are not yet Aware of how to properly and correctly distinguish between what is right and wrong in Life, yet you even just said that that knowledge had been implanted in you already.
I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.
What is "it" exactly, which you believe I believe here?

What part of what I said is not true, not right, and/or not correct, and then explain HOW and WHY they are not.

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
If you allow me now, there are some clarifying questions on your beliefs that I will like to ask.
GREAT. This is what I Truly SEEK and WANT. But first, let us CLEAR UP your first misunderstanding. I NEITHER believe nor disbelieve any thing at all. Please respond to this and let me know that you have comprehend this, that is makes sense to you, that you understand it, and that you accept it.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
May I ask: do you think that all knowledge, past, present and future is already within you at the time that you are reading this?
No.

The knowledge of what is right and what is wrong in Life is already within you. It is in fact information held within the dna of the physical body, and which the body is instinctively guided by. This Knowledge and all the other Truly meaningful KNOWING is within, but this is just still unconsciously known, in most.

All other knowledge is just learned, along the way. And like all of this knowledge is learned and passed on down through the generations, once the knowledge of HOW to unlock the already held unconscious KNOWING within is passed on to others, then that knowledge also gets passed on down through the generations until it just becomes basic KNOWING, which does not need to be taught anymore.

See unlike knowledge that creates and causes greed, selfishness, pollution, and all the other against our True wants and wishes, which have taken thousands of years to become a "part of us", the Knowledge that is for our own good and what is Truly wanted and desired anyway only takes a generation or two before it 'becomes us', which in turn allows us to become who we Truly ARE, (also known as: our True Selves, or thy True Self).
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
If so, what is the method you use to access this knowledge if it is not available to you instantly?
The knowledge, for example, of how to plant and sow a field of crops, or the knowledge of how to build and fly a craft to the moon, or of how to drive a car was/is NOT already within us. The method I use to access this knowledge is to just have the 'want' to learn it, then do what it takes to learn it.

The Knowledge, however, of what is already within us when we are born, for example, is available almost "instantly". Although the brain can work relatively quickly there is still a few tenths, hundredths, or thousands of seconds of delay. But anyway, how to access this knowledge is the exact same as with all the other knowledge AT FIRST. That is to gain the knowledge of how to do it.

But just to side track first. To me, for ever problem there is a solution. And, every 'problem' is just a question asked for a solution. So, to me, the only True so called 'problem' in Life, is just the question: How can we find the solution to all of our problems? (Which means more or less the exact same as: How can we find the answers to all of our questions?)

Now, for questions regarding physical/material things, then they are not really meaningful (full of meaning) questions, and which the answers will always be looked for and found for as long as 'we' exist for. But, for the questions regarding the Truly meaningful things in Life, then these answers are the ones within, which can be found and KNOWN almost immediately.

For EVERY question/problem, there is an answer/solution, and for every solution, there is a formula.

So, the answer/solution for the question/problem; How can we find the answer that will solve ALL of our problems, lays within the question itself - HOW?

HOW is the formula that solves ALL of our problems. HOW is just being Truly Honest, Open, and a seriously Wanting to learn how to become better, not for one's personal self, but for those that follow, and will eventually lead. That is; Children.

The method I use to access thee EXACT SAME KNOWLEDGE within EVERY one is by just being absolutely, Truly and FULLY Honest, then I become Truly OPEN, and then I can learn and SEE ALL.

For example, how to access the Knowledge of what is right and what is wrong in Life, is NOT done how as children we are taught to believe how to access this, and this is by listening to and following your elders, and if you do not do it, then you will be severely punished. This is OBVIOUSLY what is WRONG in Life, but as children we are taught to believe that this is what we 'have to' do, and then as adults we teach, unconsciously, this same way to the next generation of children.

But, to access the Right Knowledge within, one only has to look at a new born human baby for guidance of how to work out what the Right Knowledge in Life IS.

A new born teaches us there is only four 'needs' in Life, therefore absolutely every thing else desired are just 'wants', and wanting more than one needs is just greed. As children we are taught to want more than we need, and to "justify" these 'wants' over other's 'needs'. But we are not conscious nor aware of this yet. Then, the actual method used to KNOW if what one is seeing and thinking is the Right Knowledge is actually the one True and Right Knowledge is to just become naturally Aware that absolutely EVERY one would agree with this Knowledge. If absolutely EVERY one can, then one KNOWS they have gained thee actual Truth of things.

(This is only a tiny fraction and snippet of ALL the other things that need to be expressed, shared, comprehend, made sense of, and be understood. But with enough clarifying questions AND challenges I KNOW I can SHOW and REVEAL ALL-OF-THIS).
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I want to know more about what your perspective is on this if you be interested to share of course.
I am VERY INTERESTED.

Just some advice, the more specific the clarifying questions you ask me, then the more thorough and clearer the answer I can and will provide you.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
As far as I am concerned, I do not believe that all knowledge is within me.
To gain clarity absolute clarity on this, there needs to be another huge jump up to an even far higher level, then where you are at now, of comprehending and understanding thee actual True Nature of Being God Itself.

See, just like human beings have "evolved from the apes", and how the "apes evolved from what was before", so to will "human beings evolve out of being human-like and up and into Being God" (like).

But before any of this can take place, human beings have to get out of the habit of 'believing things to be true' BEFORE they find out what thee actual Truth IS FIRST.

See, for example, If you do not believe that all knowledge is within me, then you are NOT OPEN to the fact that all knowledge just MIGHT BE within you. So, you will NEVER learn what thee actual Truth IS while you are maintaining that belief nor ANY other belief. Remember this is NOT to say that thee actual Truth IS the opposite of what one believes it is. This is to just say that they will NEVER learn what thee actual Truth IS if and while they are believing that they already know what 'it' is.

But, to get to that stage of understanding and seeing how it actually makes sense, one has to be Truly Honest about their wrong doing, and be Honest for the sake of changing them 'self' for the better, and not just for them but for the others that what Life is Truly about, that is; Children.

'Honesty' is the key to unlocking ALL of the so called "mysteries" in Life. I say, "so called", because to me they have already been solved.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I believe that there are many things that I do not know and cannot even know.
You are FREE to believe whatever you like, but, how for example, could you logically and reasonably believe that there are thing that you could not even know? What happens if you happen to come to know those things? Are you still not going to believe that you can know them?

Also, there is NO need to believe that there are many thing that you do not know, because OBVIOUSLY there are many things that even ALL human beings collectively do not know. No one has to believe this to be true, for it to be thee actual Truth of things. This is just common Knowledge which we ALL KNOW is True. This is just an unambiguous irrefutable and plain FACT. One can either just accept it, or, at first glance, will have a hard time disproving it.



Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
But I am interested in knowing your perspective on this and hopefully learn a couple of more things about your beliefs and way of life.
Just to forewarn if you mention that I have a belief or that I believe any thing in further posts, then we are not going to get anywhere.

Let me tell you a story about assumptions and beliefs.

I was positioned in front of some people with relative power of me. I was being accused of doing some thing to some one. I was saying that it did not happen. They asked me, "What if we brought this person here?" I clarified by asking them, "Why? Are you assuming what that person would say?" One of them was honest and said, "Yes". I could see that they knew that this assuming was the wrong thing to do, because they did not actually KNOW what that person would have actually said". I then asked another clarifying question. "What happens if that person said what I have been saying?" It was then expressed very clearly by another person, "I would not believe it!"

From that day on I have never had another belief nor believed anything again. I could see just how strongly having and maintaining a belief can actual STOP a human being from learning, seeing, and understanding what thee actual Truth IS.

To that person it did not matter if the actual person that they assumed something happened to them said from their own FREE WILL that it did not happen, to a person who was believing otherwise then they just could not and would not even accept what thee actual Truth IS.

To a person with beliefs, then they are completely CLOSED OFF to any thing contrary to that belief. So, although you do not have to do, I do strongly suggest read what I write with absolutely any beliefs at all.

I hope that this clarifies WHY I neither believe nor disbelieve absolutely any thing and I hope I NEVER have to repeat this again.
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I wish you and the forum members who are reading this a nice day.
___________________________
It would be a very rare occurrence if there are any other members, besides us two, reading all of what we are writing here.

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4042
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Lacewing » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:20 pm

Age to Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Allah/God can reveal thee Truth orally to any and ALL human beings. The reason WHY none of 'you' can actually hear and SEE thee actual Truth, is because you do NOT 'listen' to It. You all much prefer to 'listen' to what you already BELIEVE is true.
Why do you imagine that what you're hearing is from a god? I'm open and listening and I "hear" what is demonstrated to be truth (that I otherwise might not have thought of)... and I don't imagine it to be from a god. Why impose that idea on awareness?
Age to Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
So, it is about time human beings STOP with this rubbish that the words in these books is the absolute word of Allah/God.
Just as it seems time to stop imagining some idea of a god.

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Sculptor
Posts: 2006
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Sculptor » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 am
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
The people of the other religions with whom I interacted with did not say they were pretty sure of anything on the matter, and others yet are not even sure about anything whatsoever. It was only you whom I know were pretty sure on this subject. So I thought it made sense that I should ask you as you were pretty sure. And besides the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. But anyway, you already said you had nothing on this so far, so I got my answer.
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?
Very good questions were put to me. Who is asking those questions?
Are you going to answer them?

Why did Allah create COVID-19?
Why has the Harj been banned?
Why cannot Allah protect the faithful from the virus?
Why should the faithful fear the virus?
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?

Averroes
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Averroes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:18 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Let me tell you a story about assumptions and beliefs.

I was positioned in front of some people with relative power of me. I was being accused of doing some thing to some one. I was saying that it did not happen. They asked me, "What if we brought this person here?" I clarified by asking them, "Why? Are you assuming what that person would say?" One of them was honest and said, "Yes". I could see that they knew that this assuming was the wrong thing to do, because they did not actually KNOW what that person would have actually said". I then asked another clarifying question. "What happens if that person said what I have been saying?" It was then expressed very clearly by another person, "I would not believe it!"

From that day on I have never had another belief nor believed anything again.
I understand. I conceive that this must have been for you such a traumatizing experience for you to have had to resort to such extreme measures as preventing yourself from ever using the word “belief” to qualify your state of mind.

But, if you allow me, I think this was an exaggerated response to this experience that you had. I think the word “belief” itself had nothing to do with the people that allegedly wrongly accused you. The word “belief” is a very common English that describes a particular state of affairs. It is part of the English language. For example, among the definition of the word “belief” from a standard English dictionary the following entry can be found:

Belief: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed.
Reference: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief

If I come across a statement that qualify the aforementioned definition then I have no other choice than using the word “belief” to refer to it. I don’t mean to hurt your feelings when I use that word. It’s just how the English language is structured. For example you have made the following statement such that according to you: “In physical terms, God refers to the One physical Universe, Itself”. As I argued already, I do not hold that statement to be true, but since you made that statement you must consider it to be true. So according to the English dictionary meaning of the word "belief", it’s a belief that you hold. I do not mean to hurt you by using the word “belief” in that context, but it’s just how the English language works.

But now I also understand the trauma that you went through in the experience that you shared. I do not intend to cause you any more trouble than you probably already have in dealing with the experience you narrated. So instead of using the word “belief” to qualify your state of mind, I will try as far as possible to use a synonymous word so as not to trigger the memories of this difficult experience that you allegedly went through. If that’s okay with you, then I have consulted the Thesaurus and here are the synonyms that I found for the word “belief”: opinion, view, theory, mindset, thinking, assumptions. I will alternate between these synonyms wherever applicable instead of using the word “belief” itself. And when you are strong enough (hopefully) to cope with the word “belief” again, then I shall gradually use that word again.

_______________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
The only purpose of the 'heart' is to pump blood.
Thank you for sharing your view with me, but according to contemporary science this is not true at all. There are a lot of evidence that has shown that the heart thinks as well. According to Dr Deborah Rozman for example, there are about 40, 000 neurons in the heart which can sense, feel, remember and learn. See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/heart-wisdom_b_2615857.

_______________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Did you NOT read what I wrote? I said in the physical sense God is the Universe, Itself, AND, in the spiritual sense God is the Mind, Itself.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. So, according to what you wrote, for you there are two senses for the word “God”, namely a physical sense and a spiritual sense. For the “physical sense” I already argued that it does not make much sense. Let me now consider what you called the “spiritual sense”.

It does not make much sense either that “God” refers to the mind itself. My mind is limited in capacity; there is a limit to how much I can memorize, recall and think. I am sometimes forgetful and then I make mistakes. But God, the Almighty never makes mistakes. God, the Almighty is never forgetful. God, the Almighty is the All-Aware, the All-Hearing, the All-Knower. None of the previous attributes of God, the Almighty applies to my mind. So God, the Almighty cannot be my mind or any other mind that is of limited capacity. So, as I argued, God is neither the Universe itself nor the mind itself.
_______________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
All the weight so called "scientists" of physical things is in relation to be against earth's gravity.
Respectfully, the above quoted view that you expressed is not true. I provide the explanation below with the intention of sharing knowledge with you and all those who are reading this. Please relax, take it easy and no need to get angry as I have no intention of harming you by such sharing.

First of all, gravity is a phenomenon that is not restricted to the earth only. From Wikipedia we can read the following:

Gravity or gravitation, is a natural phenomenon by which all things with mass or energy—including planets, stars, galaxies, and even light—are brought toward (or gravitate toward) one another.

So anything which has a mass/energy (even the smallest of all particles, i.e. light!) experiences gravity. And thus the weight that is experienced due to gravity is not restricted to the earth. The greater the mass/energy of the planet/celestial object, the greater the force of gravity. If on earth, for example, an object has a certain weight w1, then on a celestial object with a greater mass it will have a greater weight w2. For example, lately we have been talking a lot about black holes. Black holes have huge masses. Black holes typically have masses several times that of our Sun’s mass. The mass of our Sun is estimated to be about 2 × 10^30 kg. Due to this huge mass, near a black hole the effects of gravity is tremendous. And thus the weight of a person near a black hole would be huge.

Note: 10^30 means 10 to the power of 30 which a number composed of the number 1 followed by 30 zeros which is the number 1 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000.
And 2 × 10^30 means twice that number, i.e. 2 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000.
______________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
A particle or object of matter no big nor how small it is FLOATING in so called "space" does not weigh anything.
That too is a greatly mistaken view that you expressed. I provide the explanation below, no need to worry.

In physics, weight is defined as the force exerted on a body due to gravity.

And in fact, the theory of gravitation was put forward by Isaac Newton with the intention of explaining the “floating” of the celestial objects in the heavens! Newton explained that it was because they experienced gravity that the planets in our solar system float the way they float! Newton explained that it was due to the force of gravity acting on the planets in our solar system that caused them to move in such an orderly fashion in their elliptical orbit around the sun. In other words, the weights of the planets were being used to move the planets in their elliptical orbit! This can be a bit difficult to understand, but circular and elliptical motion requires a force that is perpendicular to the motion of the object. We say that the weight provides the centripetal force.

___________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Now, transfer that thought to the WHOLE Universe, Itself, which is ALL space and ALL matter, then what could It be so called "heavy" in relation to exactly?
This is a very good question. Thank you for asking that. This calculation has been done already by the scientists. Let me give you the figures and references.

Scientists have estimated a lower bound for the mass of ordinary matter in the observable universe and according to Wikipedia, this mass is quoted as being : 1.5×10^53 kg. That’s a super huge mass! And if it was thought possible that such a huge mass could be housed in a human being who happened to be on earth, then the effects of gravity would have been like nothing seen before, ie. unimaginably huge!
____________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
But I was NEVER raised in the so called "christian" tradition. Where did you get this absurd belief or assumption from?
Thank you for that clarification. I am always happy to learn more about the way of life of other people. As a matter of fact, Allah, the All-Wise says in the Holy Quran that He, the Almighty created us (i.e. human beings) such that we may know each other:
  • O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted. [Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning, 49:13]
I was under the impression that you were raised in a Christian environment and that you were taught Christian teachings while growing up as I had asked you the question: what was the predominant religion in the environment you were raised? To which you replied:
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:53 pm
Averroes wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:30 pm
Age wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:26 pm
I am not into any "religion".
Alright. Thank you for telling me about yourself. If I am not invading your privacy, may I ask you what was the predominant religion in the environment you were raised? Was it some eastern religion like Hinduism or Buddhism or was it Christianity? Or if it was something else, can you please tell me more about it? Please, you don't need to answer if you don't want me to know. As I told you, I am a naturally curious person, I like to learn about others way of life.
The predominant religion in the environment when i was younger was one of the christian ones, but I do not recall which one. I was never into it and hated every second of it if i was ever made to listen to it.
Please feel free to elaborate and share more of your story on this subject. I was thinking that Hinduism must have had an influence on you, and as per my first impression I also find that you speak a lot like an advaita Hindu. For example, if I quote from the first paragraph on advaita Hinduism of Wikipedia, it reads much like the contents of many of your posts!

Wikipedia: The term Advaita refers to its idea that the true self, Atman, is the same as the highest metaphysical reality of the universe, Brahman.

Some years ago I got to study Hinduism and its texts in some depth. I even got the opportunity of learning some Sanskrit for Islamic purposes! Avaita Hinduism is a complete distortion of the message of the Vedas. Many schools of thought of Hinduism are opposed to advaita philosophy. But in any case, the text of the Vedas themselves is enough to cleanly refute all the claims of advaita hindu philosophy. I once got the opportunity of debating online with a Hindu who knew some Sanskrit and had an advaita penchant. I destroyed all his arguments just by quoting the Hindu texts themselves! The gurus preaching advaita philosophy are charlatans most of the time or ignorant ones the rest of the time like Adi Shankara in the 8th century CE.

Were you instructed in any form of Hinduism when you were younger? Your parents may be were Hindus? You can tell me more if you want to share or clarify. Otherwise it's fine too, I understand.

_____________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
If you clarified with me BEFORE you wrote this, then we would not be wasting our times now with these extra words.
Please, about the possibility of wasting my time at least, you don’t need to worry. As a matter of fact it costs me very little if at all. But the important thing here in this exchange of ours is that the benefit of learning something new and about new people, and then pondering on what was learned far outweighs the negligible cost of writing some extra words. For example, I learned a lot and pondered much while having such an interesting conversation with you for about two weeks now. For example, while conversing with you, I realized how fortunate and blessed I am for having embraced Islam and now being a Muslim. And for that I thank and praise Allah, the Most Merciful as much as the amount of atoms in the Universe.

I learned much in Islam and about a whole lot of things over the years, such that I sometimes realize that my life would have been very unpleasant if I were not a Muslim. For example, in Islam Allah, the Almighty and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has told us numerous times to control our anger and speak good words to others and also to teach good instructions to others.

Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran, interpretation of meaning:
  • And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous
    Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good; [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 3:133-134]
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported by Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) to have said: “ ‘Teach and make it easy. Teach and make it easy’, three times. He went on, ‘When you are angry, be silent’ twice.” [Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 1320]

Nowadays, there are many scientific studies which shows the negative consequences of not being able to control anger. For example, the professionals from the site MentalHelp.net have described the psychology of anger and they say that anger is caused when someone is feeling vulnerable and weak. The site also says that anger does not resolve anything but merely acts as a temporary distraction and gives a false sense of superiority!
MentalHelp.net wrote: In addition to providing a good smoke screen for feelings of vulnerability, becoming angry also creates a feeling of righteousness, power and moral superiority that is not present when someone is merely in pain. When you are angry, you are angry with cause. "The people who have hurt me are wrong - they should be punished" is the common refrain. It is very rare that someone will get angry with someone they do not think has harmed them in some significant fashion.
(...)
  • Anger cannot make pain disappear - it only distracts you from it.

  • Anger generally does not resolve or address the problems that made you feel fearful or vulnerable in the first place, and it can create new problems, including social and health issues.

Site: https://www.mentalhelp.net/anger/
The same site also gives advice on how to control anger and among other things, it says:
MentalHelp.net wrote:If you allow others to make you angry, you are allowing them to control you.
Site:https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/anger- ... nerations/
Now, after conversing with you I realize how fortunate I was for having been practicing Islam and working all these years on controlling my anger for the sake of Allah, the Most Merciful. Today, if Allah wills, no one can control me by making me angry. Praise be to Allah, the Most Generous.

But I also realize that you were not as fortunate as me. Had you had such a training as well you would have been in a much better position today. For example, you admitted that I can very easily displease you by me just praising my Lord, the Almighty more than once. You said:
Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
I mean, does it annoy you that I praise my Creator, the Almighty; or are you pleased when I praise my Lord; or neither, that is you are neither pleased nor annoyed by it?
When you tell me that your praise 'our' Creator and NOT 'your' Creator ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you provide me with the reason WHY do you do this ONCE, then that is perfectly fine with me and pleases me. When you do both of these more than once, then the unnecessary need to do it displeases me more with each time you do it.
I also observe that it also annoys you when I quote the Holy Quran and you wanted me to stop talking altogether!! You said the following when I quoted the Holy Quran:
Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
  • The revelation of the Book is from Allah the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 45:2]
  • The Most Gracious!
    He taught the Quran.
    He created man.
    He taught him speech. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 55:1-4]
Please from now on, NEVER talk and speak like this again. You "muslims" and "christians" become utterly BORING.

If you cannot answers very simple clarifying questions without mentioning the bible/quran, Allah, and God, as though you could even back up and support what you are saying, then please do not say anything at all.
Worst yet, just by me ascribing the word “belief” to you can trigger in you some memories of an alleged perceived injustice and can make you lose your composure when you threatened me with warnings! You warned me thus:
Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Just to forewarn if you mention that I have a belief or that I believe any thing in further posts, then we are not going to get anywhere.
When I consider your situation, I now realize how blessed and fortunate I am that Islam has set me free from the shackles of anger. I myself have no desire to hurt and control you by annoying you and making you angry but there are people who can find pleasure in that! That is why, I invite you to embrace Islam so as to free yourself from the fetters of your petty annoyance and anger, and also from everything that is keeping you down. It is up to you. As I told you there is no compulsion in Islam; you are completely free to accept the invitation or to decline it. But please try to maintain your composure and control your anger whichever you chose. This invitation to embrace Islam is extended to anyone who is reading this.

And I take this opportunity to thank you for keeping me company all this time and making me benefit from the blessings and mercy of the Almighty, our Creator. This is because the kind of conversation that we are having is something good in Islam and even advised. Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran:
  • Say, "I only advise you of one [thing] - that you stand for Allah , [seeking truth] in pairs and individually, and then give thought." There is not in your companion any madness. He is only a warner to you before a severe punishment. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 34:46]
_____________________________________

Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am
May I ask: do you think that all knowledge, past, present and future is already within you at the time that you are reading this?
No.
Thank you for such a concise answer. That’s all I wanted to know concerning this.
_____________________________________________
Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
See, just like human beings have "evolved from the apes", and how the "apes evolved from what was before", so to will "human beings evolve out of being human-like and up and into Being God" (like).

But before any of this can take place, human beings have to get out of the habit of 'believing things to be true' BEFORE they find out what thee actual Truth IS FIRST.
Alright, you previously said that for every word that you have written, you can back up and support with evidence that prove them true:
Age wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:53 pm
SEE, absolutely every word I have written, I can back up and support them with actually evidence that can prove them True.
Now, I ask you to prove with evidence that humans evolved from apes.
___________________________________

Averroes
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Averroes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:21 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:23 pm
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 am


You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?
Very good questions were put to me. Who is asking those questions?
Are you going to answer them?

Why did Allah create COVID-19?
Why has the Harj been banned?
Why cannot Allah protect the faithful from the virus?
Why should the faithful fear the virus?
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?
And who is asking those questions? At the very least I need to know to whom to address the answers. This is not asking for too much to ask for addressee of the answer.

User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 2006
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Sculptor » Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:39 pm

Averroes wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:21 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:23 pm
Averroes wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:37 pm


Very good questions were put to me. Who is asking those questions?
Are you going to answer them?

Why did Allah create COVID-19?
Why has the Harj been banned?
Why cannot Allah protect the faithful from the virus?
Why should the faithful fear the virus?
You made some massive claims, such as the Koran was dictated to people from god.
Where is YOUR proof?
And who is asking those questions? At the very least I need to know to whom to address the answers. This is not asking for too much to ask for addressee of the answer.
Me.
My name is Sculptor.
What is the matter with you?
Can't you answer?

Averroes
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Averroes » Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:16 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:39 pm
Me.
My name is Sculptor.
You made a claim that your name is Sculptor who is the one who wrote these posts asking for answers to some questions? Now, prove that it is Sculptor who wrote these posts asking these questions.

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4042
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: God and COVID-19

Post by Lacewing » Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:31 pm

Averroes wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:16 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:39 pm
Me.
My name is Sculptor.
You made a claim that your name is Sculptor who is the one who wrote these posts asking for answers to some questions? Now, prove that it is Sculptor who wrote these posts asking these questions.
Why is that necessary for you to answer questions?

Is your point that NOTHING CAN BE PROVEN... including all that you say?

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