God and COVID-19

[Gary Childress]

I'm not going to kiss the ass of a being that creates so much misery and horror in the world.

You remind me of a quotation from C.S. Lewis here, Gary. Reflecting, in his autobiography, on his years as an angry Atheist, he wrote:

“I was at this time living, like so many Atheists or Antitheists, in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.”

That is, indeed, a "whirl of contradictions." If there's no God, how can you be angry at him for creating the world you insist He did not create? How can you be mad at a God you insist does not exist for not being good? Why are you angry, when you insist nobody is there to have been responsible for the virus, or other bad things? Where is your rage directed? And if God doesn't exist, how can you vent or express that anger by believing He doesn't exist, since there's no God there to be offended by that? Or how will you provoke this "non-existent" God in whom you don't believe, if you work hard at making defiant claims in the hope of disillusioning others, complaining that this non-God has "created misery"? Will this cause Him to hear, and feel the rebuke?

At whom are you angry?

As you must realize, your complaint only has some traction if we hold it possible that God DOES exist. Then, perhaps, some of what you feel and say might be warranted. Otherwise, is it not mere irrational raging? For who hears your objection, and where can you place any blame?

You say God didn't create this world. And then you say he "created so much misery and horror in it." How can both be true?

But in point of fact, I think your complaint is reasonable, and it deserves some kind of reasoned response. I can think that. But how can you?

Sorry, IC. I was in a bad way yesterday. After more sleep, I'm thinking differently.

[Impenitent]

your government masters will decide what your "good" choices are.

rejoice in your citizenship

-Imp

A possible silver linin' from all this commie flu nonsense is more folks will see how truly incompetent the gov is.

Disillusioned, such folks may be less inclined to take orders and more inclined to give them.

utopia for everyone!!!

be sure to give your guns to your government masters...

I see dead leftists - but history never repeats...

-Imp

[nothing]

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

First it was Allah:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/03/paki ... nt-2221250

then it became the "Jews"
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/03/yeme ... and-medina

"BELIEVER vs. UNBELIEVER"

Cause of COVID-19 implicit.

[henry quirk]

utopia for everyone!!!

I hope not.


be sure to give your guns to your government masters...

When hell freezes.


I see dead leftists

One can hope.


but history never repeats...

Sure it does cuz we keep hirin' the same fuckers over and over and over and...

[Immanuel Can]

Sorry, IC. I was in a bad way yesterday. After more sleep, I'm thinking differently.

Don't worry, Gary. I'm not even slightly upset. Not a bit.

I think your concern is genuine...I hope that comes through. I'm just inviting you to think through what it is that's really bothering you about God and COVID.

I think there are legit questions to be asked. And one of them is "How can we feel so angry with a Being we don't even think exists?'

Manifestly, we can. Lots of people, I would guess, are pretty miffed about this latest development, and want to ask, "Where is God in all this?"

But what does the fact that we can feel legitimate in asking this way tell us? Does it tell us we're just crazy irrational? Or does it tell us we really do have a reasonable expectation of some sort of fairness and mercy in this world, at least some approximate justice, and a legitimate right to ask why it isn't apparent to us that we get it?

[Averroes]

Thank you for your input sister Lacewing!

Hi Averroes. The only thing in your response that rings true to me is the phrase "sister Lacewing". That is true. The rest is something you have chosen to believe, and part of your belief is that it applies to me. For me, it does not. So I guess there's nothing more for us to talk about, as you will continually superimpose your belief over everything that involves me. You will quote books and prophets as if any of it would have any interest to me. I don't think you would like for me to do something similar to you (continually superimposing a belief onto you that you do not believe, and telling you that you should repent because of it)... such is a certain kind of madness... but I guess you cannot help yourself from subjecting me and others to it. I wish you peace.

Hi sister Lacewing,  I hope you are fine.
It was a great pleasure for me to have had the opportunity to exchange with you on the forums. I found you to be an intelligent and caring person but I am saddened that we could not reach an agreement on such an important subject. I really wish you would join me in Islam. But I am commanded by our Creator, the Almighty not to impose Islam on anyone. I thank you for sharing your thoughts and time with me. It was really nice to know you sister Lacewing. I wish to you peace as well. Btw, Islam means peace.

[Lacewing]

Hi sister Lacewing,  I hope you are fine.
It was a great pleasure for me to have had the opportunity to exchange with you on the forums. I found you to be an intelligent and caring person but I am saddened that we could not reach an agreement on such an important subject. I really wish you would join me in Islam. But I am commanded by our Creator, the Almighty not to impose Islam on anyone. I thank you for sharing your thoughts and time with me. It was really nice to know you sister Lacewing. I wish to you peace as well. Btw, Islam means peace.

What a very nice message! It confirms for me how nice things can be between people when religion is kept out of it. People can have/use whatever religion works for them, but it is not necessary for others to agree or share any particular religion, or any religion at all. To connect and share in other ways is not only easy and natural, it is really beautiful. I think the implications of that say quite a lot! Thank you.

[bahman]

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

Ignorance my friend. That is why we are here.

[Arising_uk]

Turgid?

Tell that to a brainwashed teen superhero and you'll hear, "How dare you!"

Although the transmission originates from a teen at heart the years belie the illusion, and so you're likely to hear a less incriminating response than from one so full, more of a leisurely stroll on this side of a language wallow. The worth is more the journey than the bottom line.

[Age]

Has it ever crossed your mind that your 'God' might wish to give you this horrible death?

If there is a God, and if God wishes to give us horrible deaths, then I will not worship or praise God if it's out of fear and intimidation.

God does NOT wish you horrible deaths.

And God would not be a good God in that case. Or if God is indifferent and doesn't give a piss what happens to human beings then, likewise, I see no reason to worship or pray if it makes no difference.

God also does NOT put 'you', human beings, ahead of any other creature.

It is 'you', human beings, who think or believe that you are more important than any other species is, is part of the reason why some of you are still trying to work out and understand what God is exactly.

[Age]

So join me forum members in embracing Islam and turning back to our Creator, the Almighty alone and let us then constantly keep asking for His forgiveness. If He, the Almighty accepts our repentance, it is my hope that He saves us from such a horrible death and gives us a good death instead.

How exactly does one 'embrace' islam? What do i have to do exactly to 'embrace'? And what purpose would that fulfill?

Obviously one does not have to 'ask' for forgiveness from the one and only Almighty One. This is because this One already fully understands why you do wrong and keep doing wrong. What one obviously has to do is to just stop doing those things that you say one 'ask' forgiveness for.

The Almighty One is NOT a "he". The Almighty One ONLY 'accepts' repentance when you STOP doing wrong things.

You can 'hope' that the Almighty One 'saves' human beings from such a death (Death from a virus is no more horrible than a death from any other source. Death is death.) but obviously only through 'you', human beings, will a cure and prevention be found, that is; if one is.

By the way, what is a so called "good death" to you? To the Almighty One there is just the term 'death' only, which, by the way, means nothing like what 'you', human beings, think that it means.

[RCSaunders]

When human beings, themselves, kill millions upon millions of other human beings do people also wonder whether there is a God of evil or not or whether people are evil?

God can't stop them?

[Dubious]

When human beings, themselves, kill millions upon millions of other human beings do people also wonder whether there is a God of evil or not or whether people are evil?

God can't stop them?

Whether it doesn't care or doesn't exist (more likely the latter) amounts to the same thing. If god didn't cause the problems we are responsible for or couldn't have caused the problem because it doesn't exist it's only the cowardly and the stupids who always want to get even by threatening to rescind any belief they may have had. Somehow they always want to hurt god in that manner as in you let us down and I no-longer trust you!

From what I can tell a more outstanding example of pathetic doesn't exist.

[Arising_uk]

... And what happens when the wet markets start up again (which they will) and this will have all been for nothing? ...

I'm not sure they will this time as this time it has cost China a lot of money and they will have to try and rebuild confidence with the corporations that they won't interrupt the supply chain again in this way. Although I think they've done themselves real confidence damage as the corps are already looking at alternative suppliers so they will not be so reliant upon China and the idea of them being the 'workshop of the world'.

[Age]

When human beings, themselves, kill millions upon millions of other human beings do people also wonder whether there is a God of evil or not or whether people are evil?

God can't stop them?

You will have to discover or learn how God, and how human beings, actually work first, before you could understand the answer to your question.

How much time and effort are you prepared to put into understanding the answer to your question?

By the way, if you believe that God does not exist, or even if you believe that God does exist, then that will make it near impossible for you to be able to understand the answer.

I am prepared to explain for as long as you like or is needed, but I need you to neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, and I also need you to not assume any thing in what say. For you to fully understand the answer, then you need to remain curious and be continually inquisitive by continually asking clarifying questions, like you have here, until you fully understand the answer I provide you.