Coronavirus Craziness

For philosophical reflections on the COVID-19 pandemic. How can philosophy help us to understand it, to combat it and to survive it?

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Walker
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:05 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I mean humans don't have immunity to covid-19.
Let's clear this up shall we, the disease has been called by the Chinese 'Covid-19' but the virus is 'SARS-Cov-2'. It appears that given the last time the Chinese didn't want to freak out their neighbours again by calling it SARS.

In my personal opinion, given what has been happening in Italy, the Chinese have under-reported the situation over there and it appears they are also now running a social media disinformation campaign for the conspiracy kooks to spread hinting at shady CIA doings and viral weapons research as the real source of the virus. Presumably because they are trying to avoid responsibility for once again causing an epidemic due to not cracking down on their live wild animal markets and the unhygienic slaughter conditions in them.
I read somewhere that under-reporting an epidemic in the initial stages is worldwide standard operating procedure. It's what Obama did with the swine flu.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Arising_uk »

Walker wrote: I read somewhere that under-reporting an epidemic in the initial stages is worldwide standard operating procedure. It's what Obama did with the swine flu.
Please, spare me your politics. If not show me the evidence.
Dontaskme
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:05 pm
In my personal opinion, given what has been happening in Italy, the Chinese have under-reported the situation over there and it appears they are also now running a social media disinformation campaign for the conspiracy kooks to spread hinting at shady CIA doings and viral weapons research as the real source of the virus. Presumably because they are trying to avoid responsibility for once again causing an epidemic due to not cracking down on their live wild animal markets and the unhygienic slaughter conditions in them.
But why would they think about cracking down on some cultural way of doing things which is unhygienic slaughter practices if they were either totally oblivious or were just refusing to be aware of the practice as being a potential for dire consequences of every living person on the planet?

Are you suggesting that the same people who welded human beings into their homes causing the deaths of those people who couldn't get out, and did so without any concern for their welfare by taking such a drastic barbaric panic based action for fear of spreading the disease further ..a disease that they had no prior knowledge or awareness of it's potential potency?

Surely those same people who cracked down after the release of this virus must have been aware of the possible potential for this to have happened in the first place? ...is it just me or does something not quite add up here?

And also, if they have never been bothered to crack down on these unhygienic slaughter practices that must have been the norm there, and been allowed to be practiced for many many years unheeded..then why NOW..why this sudden lethal outbreak? assuming this practice has been going on for as long as the chinese have existed.

Maybe blaming it on the cross contamination from animal to human is just another conspiracy theory eh? ...but someone knows the truth don't they?

.
Walker
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:11 pm
Walker wrote: I read somewhere that under-reporting an epidemic in the initial stages is worldwide standard operating procedure. It's what Obama did with the swine flu.
Please, spare me your politics. If not show me the evidence.
I don't recall where I read it. I probably could find it. It might be commie propaganda. I read somewhere that WHO is in league with China, which could be right-wing propaganda.

So what are you going to disagree with?

Since you’re too lazy or disinterested to do your own research I poked around and discovered something even more interesting that you’ll appreciate.

President Trump is following the WHO guidelines for communicating epidemic information to the public. Following them point-by-point.

Isn’t the world fortunate to have such a great leader in this time of crisis.


Managing epidemics
WHO
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... active.pdf

(skip to page 42 if for some strange reason you don't want to read the whole thing)
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:45 pm consult your doc (not the talkin' heads)
What if we'd rather consult David Byrne? :wink:
commonsense
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:09 am
commonsense wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:09 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:24 pm What I would like to know is why no old people are coming out and saying 'Stop! This is madness! We don't want this. Having a future for children and young people is far more important then saving a few of us who are at death's door anyway. And what will happen to us if we can't get our medications in the future because the world economy has collapsed?'

Of course they aren't, because they are selfish old fucks.
Are you thinking, as I am, that the approach could’ve been to advise anyone who is over 65 years old or who has a chronic disease to stay home and advise the rest to carry on with their lives undisrupted save extra handwwshing?

Then only retirees and the medically weak would be on quarantine, leaving economies & markets essentially untouched. There would probably be a lot of people who get and survive the Coronavirus, but mortality rates among younger, healthier people are reportedly lower than among at risk populations.

I, for one, would not attribute selfishness to the old fucks, who had nothing to do with formulating a response to the virus.
They are being awfully quiet about it.
But aren’t the medical measures, as tragic as the economic consequences are, being implemented on behalf of the young as well as the old? Doesn’t the economic tragedy impact the elderly, who may have no source of income other than their investments?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Immanuel Can »

commonsense wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:49 pm But aren’t the medical measures, as tragic as the economic consequences are, being implemented on behalf of the young as well as the old? Doesn’t the economic tragedy impact the elderly, who may have no source of income other than their investments?
Well, "on behalf of the young, that they may not get temporarily sick," but "on behalf of the old and frail, that they may not die." :shock:

Overwhelmingly, it's not the young and the healthy who are experiencing this as fatal. But everybody's got economic consequences.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:05 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I mean humans don't have immunity to covid-19.
Let's clear this up shall we, the disease has been called by the Chinese 'Covid-19' but the virus is 'SARS-Cov-2'. It appears that given the last time the Chinese didn't want to freak out their neighbours again by calling it SARS.

In my personal opinion, given what has been happening in Italy, the Chinese have under-reported the situation over there and it appears they are also now running a social media disinformation campaign for the conspiracy kooks to spread hinting at shady CIA doings and viral weapons research as the real source of the virus. Presumably because they are trying to avoid responsibility for once again causing an epidemic due to not cracking down on their live wild animal markets and the unhygienic slaughter conditions in them.
I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:37 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:24 pm What I would like to know is why no old people are coming out and saying 'Stop! This is madness! We don't want this. Having a future for children and young people is far more important then saving a few of us who are at death's door anyway. And what will happen to us if we can't get our medications in the future because the world economy has collapsed?'

Of course they aren't, because they are selfish old fucks.
It's hard to say what the old people are really thinking as they fall ill with this virus, it's not until you are in that situation yourself will you know how you feel about it. I suppose the natural instinct is to want to live no matter what age you are. Or, even if you may just instinctively know you are not going to be coming back from deaths door, at least you would want to leave as comfortably and as pain free as possible.

The reason for the mass panic is that I personally think people think there is just more to it than just A NEW VIRUS pandemic. People are not that stupid, they're not all totally ignorant and oblivious as to what could and might possibly be going on in the world right now.

Another reason for the mass hysteria is because of the sheer amount of people that are dying in just one day, or are getting sick at the same time.

For example: ''Italian Doctors in the region are reportedly calling the deadly outbreak “the Apocalypse” as the country recorded 427 new deaths in 24 hours''

Those 427 people that have died in the last 24 hours would still have been alive today had it not been for this virus. That's why people are getting a little bit crazy and thinking something is not quite right here...

.
There are plenty of old people who don't have it. Why aren't 'they' saying anything?

And many of those Italian dead were in their 80s and 90s for fuck sake, and heavy smokerst to boot! Why are people being deliberately whipped into a hysterical frenzy, continuously told things like ''5 new cases in the last hour blah blah'' but not that those '5 cases' might have been extremely mild ones!
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Arising_uk
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Arising_uk »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
Could be but the Chinese smoke like chimneys in comparison and shit fags at that. But I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that there is a fair amount of hysteria going on here but then again I doubt our govt would be reacting in such a way if there wasn't a fair amount truth in the estimates made by their medical advisors.

As an aside I wonder how much the transmission is/was affected by those countries who still work largely with cash?
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Arising_uk
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Arising_uk »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: There are plenty of old people who don't have it. Why aren't 'they' saying anything?

And many of those Italian dead were in their 80s and 90s for fuck sake, and heavy smokerst to boot! Why are people being deliberately whipped into a hysterical frenzy, continuously told things like ''5 new cases in the last hour blah blah'' but not that those '5 cases' might have been extremely mild ones!
Ah! The old problem of bad news sells.
Skepdick
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Skepdick »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:35 pm I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
You do understand that death-rate and total-deaths are different metrics, right?

The one one measures percentages, the other measures body count.
Last edited by Skepdick on Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Arising_uk wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:24 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
Could be but the Chinese smoke like chimneys in comparison and shit fags at that. But I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that there is a fair amount of hysteria going on here but then again I doubt our govt would be reacting in such a way if there wasn't a fair amount truth in the estimates made by their medical advisors.

As an aside I wonder how much the transmission is/was affected by those countries who still work largely with cash?
Because we can always be certain that govts. and 'experts' know what they are doing :lol:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they find that the mortality rate of corona is lower than the flu. There must be thousands of cases that people haven't even bothered to report because the symptoms were so mild. (I wonder if they discover this before or after the world economy has collapsed and the suicide rate has gone up 5000 percent).
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:35 pm I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
You do understand that death-rate and total-deaths are different metrics, right?

The one one measures percentages, the other measures body count.
Yes. Do you?
Skepdick
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Re: Coronavirus Craziness

Post by Skepdick »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:30 pm
Skepdick wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:35 pm I read that the reason Italy's death rate is so high is because it has a low testing rate--hence there are probably many mild cases and cases where people have recovered that haven't been included in the statistics which accounts for the statistically higher death rate. Italy also has the second highest population of elderly people.
You do understand that death-rate and total-deaths are different metrics, right?

The one one measures percentages, the other measures body count.
Yes. Do you?
And you are aware that more testing might end up reducing the death rate, but it wouldn't reduce the body count.

All the worse for your argument, because if the death rate in Italy is over-estimated then it means that the number of infections is under-estimated.

Which is precisely why Italy's number of new cases is growing exponentially - way faster than China.
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