The grand illusion that is YOU

[Dontaskme]

That is the grand delusion.

Or just a play on words.

Self-evolving ideas? No. There are only evolving ideas and for that you need mind.

Mind IS an idea.

Concepts like birth and death are ideas... appearing as a language which is translated as knowledge appearing in the form of concepts which can only point one to their illusory nature. In the context there is no actual thing in the word thing. The word 'thing' is just an empty idea appearing full.

Only a concept can be KNOWN, and a concept has no experience of any life nor death...for reasons I've just explained above.

For every appearance and disappearance of what is known to be 'you' aka a concept...is sourced from what has ALWAYS EXISTED....else no appearance or disappearance would ever show OR become KNOWN

So that which has always existed cannot die, nor can that which has always existed live. The concepts 'live and die' are empty knowledge known that cannot be an experience, for the KNOWN know nothing.

Concepts known are of the mind as an idea, and even the mind itself is an idea.

Life and birth only exist in the realm of knowledge, the dream state, the illusory dream of separation, the realm of artificial knowledge.


If it is possible for a 'you' to exist at all .... then that 'you' must have ALWAYS EXISTED...for 'you' to be here now, 'you' must have always been here. How can 'you' NEVER not be here...'you' cannot experience your own absence or presence.

You are always and never not here. Only the concept of you is born and dies...NOT YOU...because there is no one other than YOU.

In other words..there is NO 'you' because there is no other than 'you'.





.

[commonsense]

Is can only be known to mind because at the same time there is is there is no is. And since only mind can know you there can be no you unless there is (is).

[bahman]

Or just a play on words.

Self-evolving ideas? No. There are only evolving ideas and for that you need mind.

Mind IS an idea.

No, mind is the essence of any being with ability to experience (experience ideas), decide and cause (create ideas). You are mixing things. I have an argument for existence of mind given its properties: Consider a change in a system, X to Y where X and Y are two different states of affair. X has to vanishes before Y is caused. There is, however, nothing when X vanishes and nothing cannot possibly cause Y. Therefore, there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

[Dontaskme]

Is can only be known to mind because at the same time there is is there is no is. And since only mind can know you there can be no you unless there is (is).

Agreed.

The mind is a concept KNOWN.

The mind knows itself as a concept only, yet no mind has ever been seen.

[Dontaskme]

Self-evolving ideas? No. There are only evolving ideas and for that you need mind.

Mind IS an idea.

No, mind is the essence of any being with ability to experience (experience ideas), decide and cause (create ideas). You are mixing things. I have an argument for existence of mind given its properties: Consider a change in a system, X to Y where X and Y are two different states of affair. X has to vanishes before Y is caused. There is, however, nothing when X vanishes and nothing cannot possibly cause Y. Therefore, there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

I don't see it the way you see it.

I see it like this...> The mind does not experience ideas. The mind is the experience, the mind is the idea.

We only see effects, not the cause of the effect..aka the mind. Therefore the effect is the KNOWN, and that known cannot know it's maker, nor can it see it. And yet It IS IT



.

[bahman]

Mind IS an idea.

No, mind is the essence of any being with ability to experience (experience ideas), decide and cause (create ideas). You are mixing things. I have an argument for existence of mind given its properties: Consider a change in a system, X to Y where X and Y are two different states of affair. X has to vanishes before Y is caused. There is, however, nothing when X vanishes and nothing cannot possibly cause Y. Therefore, there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

I don't see it the way you see it.

I see it like this...> The mind does not experience ideas. The mind is the experience, the mind is the idea.

We only see effects, not the cause of the effect..aka the mind. Therefore the effect is the KNOWN, and that known cannot know it's maker, nor can it see it. And yet It IS IT



.

You don't pay any attention to my argument.

[Dontaskme]

No, mind is the essence of any being with ability to experience (experience ideas), decide and cause (create ideas). You are mixing things. I have an argument for existence of mind given its properties: Consider a change in a system, X to Y where X and Y are two different states of affair. X has to vanishes before Y is caused. There is, however, nothing when X vanishes and nothing cannot possibly cause Y. Therefore, there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

I don't see it the way you see it.

I see it like this...> The mind does not experience ideas. The mind is the experience, the mind is the idea.

We only see effects, not the cause of the effect..aka the mind. Therefore the effect is the KNOWN, and that known cannot know it's maker, nor can it see it. And yet It IS IT



.

You don't pay any attention to my argument.

You are saying there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

And I'm saying the mind does not experience or cause anything,except in this conception, an illusory dream. The mind is just a ''thought'' in awareness, it's a concept known which is just another term for ''thought''...and these thoughts are known by awareness and is how the dream world of thought is known to itself, in the experience that is the dream, but it's all conceptual.

''thought's'' are concepts, and their only substance is Consciousness which is an aspect of Awareness in contact with itself albeit illusory because Consciousness is never connected to any thing because there is nothing else present with which it could be connected. Consciousness is all there IS ..it's the dream, and only the dream is known.

Experiences..aka conceptual dreams come and go in a consciousness that remains ever self shining and doesn't go anywhere, nor does it appear, because consciousness is not an experience..Mind, as such, is a concept, not an experience.

Mind is the experience, it's the experiencing awareness is having, and while experiences come and go awareness does not.

.

[bahman]

I don't see it the way you see it.

I see it like this...> The mind does not experience ideas. The mind is the experience, the mind is the idea.

We only see effects, not the cause of the effect..aka the mind. Therefore the effect is the KNOWN, and that known cannot know it's maker, nor can it see it. And yet It IS IT



.

You don't pay any attention to my argument.

You are saying there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

And I'm saying the mind does not experience or cause anything,except in this conception, an illusory dream. The mind is just a ''thought'' in awareness, it's a concept known which is just another term for ''thought''...and these thoughts are known by awareness and is how the dream world of thought is known to itself, in the experience that is the dream, but it's all conceptual.

''thought's'' are concepts, and their only substance is Consciousness which is an aspect of Awareness in contact with itself albeit illusory because Consciousness is never connected to any thing because there is nothing else present with which it could be connected. Consciousness is all there IS ..it's the dream, and only the dream is known.

Experiences..aka conceptual dreams come and go in a consciousness that remains ever self shining and doesn't go anywhere, nor does it appear, because consciousness is not an experience..Mind, as such, is a concept, not an experience.

Mind is the experience, it's the experiencing awareness is having, and while experiences come and go awareness does not.

.

I understand what you are saying. One, however, has to go from one state of affair to another state of affair when there is a change. There is, however, nothing between two states of affair and nothing cannot possibly coherently cause the second state of affair. Therefore, there must exist an entity that can fill the gap between two states of affair, so-called mind.

[Dontaskme]

You don't pay any attention to my argument.

You are saying there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

And I'm saying the mind does not experience or cause anything,except in this conception, an illusory dream. The mind is just a ''thought'' in awareness, it's a concept known which is just another term for ''thought''...and these thoughts are known by awareness and is how the dream world of thought is known to itself, in the experience that is the dream, but it's all conceptual.

''thought's'' are concepts, and their only substance is Consciousness which is an aspect of Awareness in contact with itself albeit illusory because Consciousness is never connected to any thing because there is nothing else present with which it could be connected. Consciousness is all there IS ..it's the dream, and only the dream is known.

Experiences..aka conceptual dreams come and go in a consciousness that remains ever self shining and doesn't go anywhere, nor does it appear, because consciousness is not an experience..Mind, as such, is a concept, not an experience.

Mind is the experience, it's the experiencing awareness is having, and while experiences come and go awareness does not.

.

I understand what you are saying. One, however, has to go from one state of affair to another state of affair when there is a change. There is, however, nothing between two states of affair and nothing cannot possibly coherently cause the second state of affair. Therefore, there must exist an entity that can fill the gap between two states of affair, so-called mind.

Any gap filler is nought but a phantom gap closer.

To fill a gap is to close the gap.

The phantom entity is both full and empty at the same time.

.

[bahman]

You are saying there must exist a mind that has the ability to experience and cause.

And I'm saying the mind does not experience or cause anything,except in this conception, an illusory dream. The mind is just a ''thought'' in awareness, it's a concept known which is just another term for ''thought''...and these thoughts are known by awareness and is how the dream world of thought is known to itself, in the experience that is the dream, but it's all conceptual.

''thought's'' are concepts, and their only substance is Consciousness which is an aspect of Awareness in contact with itself albeit illusory because Consciousness is never connected to any thing because there is nothing else present with which it could be connected. Consciousness is all there IS ..it's the dream, and only the dream is known.

Experiences..aka conceptual dreams come and go in a consciousness that remains ever self shining and doesn't go anywhere, nor does it appear, because consciousness is not an experience..Mind, as such, is a concept, not an experience.

Mind is the experience, it's the experiencing awareness is having, and while experiences come and go awareness does not.

.

I understand what you are saying. One, however, has to go from one state of affair to another state of affair when there is a change. There is, however, nothing between two states of affair and nothing cannot possibly coherently cause the second state of affair. Therefore, there must exist an entity that can fill the gap between two states of affair, so-called mind.

Any gap filler is nought but a phantom gap closer.

Any gap filler is mind because what appears after the gap is closed is correlate to the before.

To fill a gap is to close the gap.

The gap is closed when mind causes.

The phantom entity is both full and empty at the same time.

.

That is an impossibility by definition.

[AlexW]

There is, however, nothing between two states of affair

How do you know that? Have you observed this "nothing" which you say is in-between "two states of affair"?
Can you actually observe "nothing"? If not then how can you say it exists as something that is between two other somethings?
And ... if it would exist as a something than it would itself be another "state of affairs" - wouldn't it?

[bahman]

There is, however, nothing between two states of affair

How do you know that? Have you observed this "nothing" which you say is in-between "two states of affair"?
Can you actually observe "nothing"? If not then how can you say it exists as something that is between two other somethings?
And ... if it would exist as a something than it would itself be another "state of affairs" - wouldn't it?

There is nothing at the moment that you decide and cause. You couldn't possibly cause something otherwise, if there was something there. This is true because you cannot have two states of affair at the same point.

[AlexW]

There is nothing at the moment that you decide and cause.

Have you observed this to be so? If so, how?

You couldn't possibly cause something otherwise

and maybe you actually don't anyway... have you ever thought about that? (that "you" cannot cause anything)

This is true because you cannot have two states of affair at the same point.

What if a "state of affair" doesn't really exist outside the idea that it does? Do discreet states still exist if a state were nothing but a thought/concept (an interpretation)?

[bahman]

There is nothing at the moment that you decide and cause.

Have you observed this to be so? If so, how?

I believe that is the state that you could reach it by deep meditation.

You couldn't possibly cause something otherwise

and maybe you actually don't anyway... have you ever thought about that? (that "you" cannot cause anything)

You are constanly causing or you are in state of meditation.

This is true because you cannot have two states of affair at the same point.

What if a "state of affair" doesn't really exist outside the idea that it does?

You experience it therefore it exists. It could be an idea that someone else is putting inside your mind too. It could be something that you create, such as a thought or a want to do something.

Do discreet states still exist if a state were nothing but a thought/concept (an interpretation)?

The reality in its core is discrete as it is illustrated by my argument. Why we experience it continuously is another question. Our brain is simply a barrier since it cannot digitize the information that we perceive fast enough.

[AlexW]

I believe that is the state that you could reach it by deep meditation.

Ok... so you haven't actually observed it.

You are constanly causing or you are in state of meditation.

What exactly is the "you" in this sentence?

You experience it therefore it exists.

I have never experienced a discrete state - yes, I can think about states, but I cannot experience them directly.

It could be something that you create, such as a thought

How do you create a thought? What exactly do you have to do to make a thought happen/arise?

The reality in its core is discrete as it is illustrated by my argument.

Just because you illustrate it, it doesn't have to be so... it is a proposal, your personal interpretation, not a fact.

Why we experience it continuously is another question. Our brain is simply a barrier since it cannot digitize the information that we perceive fast enough.

If brains "digitize the information that we perceive" then the received data would initially have to be analog/continuous in nature (digitizing digital data wouldn't make much sense, would it?).
Thus the question "Why we experience it continuously" is already answered: because experience is analog/continuous and not split into small separate chunks.