Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.
I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
Regards
DL
Why? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.
Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
No argument on this.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 pmYes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.
Hell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:08 pm Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.
People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.
This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.
It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.
It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.
The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.
The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.
The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.
Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.
Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.
Discuss.
I do not believe in those things.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmSo you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.
Well it appears you seem to believe that you have concluded what the one and only actual Truth IS. Although absolutely every thing you just said here is contradictory, absurd, NOT true, and/or just an assumption and/or belief, which is obviously absolutely WRONG.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmWell, if it's, "emprical evidence," it is only evidence of the empirical. If there were empirical evidence of a God, no one would doubt it. The reason so many people doubt there is God, (or the particular God you believe in), is because there is no such evidence.
Are you at all aware that what you are saying here is describing 'you' exactly?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmYou ought to believe whatever you believe, so long as you are convinced by your own best reason, but if you are going to expect others to believe what you do, it is up to you to define what you mean.
I do not insist there is a God. Remember it is 'you', "rcsaunders", who is here insisting that God/s do not exist.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm For example, if you insist there is a God, before anyone else can know what you mean you have to explain what you mean by God--not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed. Isn't that fair?
'God', in the visible sense, is thee one and only Universe, Itself.
The so called "evidence" apparently speaks for itself in regards to God not existing, because people are not able to provide any, even though they very strongly implied that there is actual evidence.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pmWhy? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.
Do you also laugh when believers talk of no evidence, when their own definition of 'whatever' says that there is evidence?Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
Regards
DL
Ahh, is this what "greatest I am" was referring to. Thanks, this is quite interesting and is obviously and will be more proof.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 pmYes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
What about those believers who believe God does not exist. Do they have the actual evidence that God does not exist and provide this evidence, or do they live by faith alone also?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 pm It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.
What did "jesus" say 'they' can do?Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:21 pmNo argument on this.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 pmYes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.
When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.
Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:21 pm That tends to shut down the conversation but I don't know why.
I don't know if they realize that they are either lying to themselves or that the bible is wrong, or if they are just lying to others out of habit.
Regards
DL
What is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?bahman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:23 pmHell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:08 pm Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.
People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.
This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.
It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.
It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.
The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.
The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.
The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.
Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.
Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.
Discuss.
A place of pain, disgust, etc. Some people enjoy pain.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 pmWhat is 'hell' synonymous to, to you?bahman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:23 pmHell exists. Hell by itself is not a bad thing since evil is not synonym to bad.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:08 pm Hell exists within the majority of world's religions as a place where man is cuttoff from God through man's attachment to illusion.
People send themselves to hell with the Divine Image, man is created in, burning them due to their attachment to what is created rather than the creator.
This place is seperation of the internal and external identity of man from God.
It is manifested into a series of chaotic forms, through the transitory state of all sensual phenomena one is attached too, always cyclically passing in a state of generation and degeneration.
It is a self created place of the utmost cognitive dissonance, manifested as fire, darkness, and perpetual violence where man worships idols through attachment cause a sense of chaotic tension between his or her true nature and a lesser one.
The fire is the Divine image, perpetually manifested in man, burning what one gains a false identity through.
The violence is Divine justice in the sense one reaps what they sow where a life spent in dominating the images of God, in a way to seek greatness over God, cycles back.
The darkness is the transitory state of this false identity one is attached too continual unfolding as a primordial chaos.
Hell is self imposed isolation from God manifested under perpetual cycles of seperation from the source.
Forgiveness, generosity and prayer, as detachment from what is transitory and temporal, is the path out and away from this literal and metaphorical state.
Discuss.
It's called satire. You argued that there is no empirical evidence that shows God does not exist as thought that made belief in God rational and I was illustrating that belief in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls is just a reasonable if lack of empirical evidence makes them reasonable.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:51 pmI do not believe in those things.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmSo you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.
Why did you assume I did?
What's empirical evidence the unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls don't exist? So you have not reason to believe they do not exist.
Prove to whom? I don't believe in anything without evidence. I don't care if you do. I'm only telling you what I believe, and as far as I know, one is free to make any claim they like on this forum without answering to you. Isn't the right?
That's fine. You do not have to agree with me, and may think whatever you want about my knowledge or lack thereof.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:51 pmWell it appears you seem to believe that you have concluded what the one and only actual Truth IS. Although absolutely every thing you just said here is contradictory, absurd, NOT true, and/or just an assumption and/or belief, which is obviously absolutely WRONG.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmWell, if it's, "empirical evidence," it is only evidence of the empirical. If there were empirical evidence of a God, no one would doubt it. The reason so many people doubt there is God, (or the particular God you believe in), is because there is no such evidence.
But you already believe you KNOW what the actual Truth is, so I will just leave you with that. You obviously have no interest in learning and understanding what the actual Truth IS here.
Well, "insist," is not quite the right word. I know there is nothing supernatural, and no mystical or spiritual beings, but I do not care what superstitions others want to entertain. Believe whatever you like.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 amAre you at all aware that what you are saying here is describing 'you' exactly?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pmYou ought to believe whatever you believe, so long as you are convinced by your own best reason, but if you are going to expect others to believe what you do, it is up to you to define what you mean.
'You', "rcsaunders", are the one who believes God does not exist. 'You', "rcsaunders", are absolutely convinced by your very own reasons that this is absolutely true. 'You', "rcsaunders", expect others to believe the same as what you, "rcsaunders", does. I asked 'you', "rcsaunders", to back up and support your belief that God does not exist, 'you', "rcsaunders", even implied that you have the empirical evidence to support your belief here. So, it is up to 'you', "rcsaunders", to define and explain what you mean.
But so far you have not, and appears will not.
I do not insist there is a God. Remember it is 'you', "rcsaunders", who is here insisting that God/s do not exist.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm For example, if you insist there is a God, before anyone else can know what you mean you have to explain what you mean by God--not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed. Isn't that fair?
I'd be satisfied with a link to that post.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 amRCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm By the way, I have already explained what I meant by the word 'God' (but not in this thread, in other threads. This thread is about hell). I did this not in vague abstract terms, but in specifics that can be logically analyzed, which I thought was fair.
Oh yes. Since there is already a perfectly good word for the universe why is another word, "God," needed for the same thing. I certainly believe in the universe and see no reason to call it God, although I did a couple of articles that referred to the universe (or reality) as a metaphorical, "God." ["The Wisdom of Tathagatagarbha" It's satire.]
Yes! A god is one of a class of imaginary or fictional things, like ghosts, leprechauns, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls, that some people believe in.
Why do you call them believers?
And many people do not believe in a god. What is the difference between such things not believed?Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:51 pmI do not believe in those things.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm So you believe in unicorns, the tooth fairy, and trolls because there is no empirical evidence that shows they do not exist.
After a have my laugh, I give them this link on the logical fallacy, to show that it is impossible to show a negative.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:00 pmThe so called "evidence" apparently speaks for itself in regards to God not existing, because people are not able to provide any, even though they very strongly implied that there is actual evidence.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pmWhy? Does the evidence not speak for itself? Just kidding.
Do you also laugh when believers talk of no evidence, when their own definition of 'whatever' says that there is evidence?Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:03 pm I laugh when believers talk of evidence, when their own biblical definition of faith says that there is no evidence.
Regards
DL
By the way, it could be said that I just laugh at 'believers', full stop, and/or non stop. 'you', so called "greatest I am", appear to be a very strong 'believer', correct?
I was unaware that there was a specific biblical definition of faith that says there is no evidence. Could you link us to this, as this will come in very handy in showing and providing more and further proof.
"They"; are those who lie and say they have faith or belief. If it were true, they could demonstrate really keen powers. Levitation, etc.Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:12 pmWhat did "jesus" say 'they' can do?Greatest I am wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:21 pmNo argument on this.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 pm
Yes, it is ironic. It is the whole purpose of Hebrews 11, (KJV) beginning verse 1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." and explained by Romans 8:24&25 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
It has always seemed to me that those who claim to live by, "faith," and then claim to have evidence for what they believe is a kind of contradiction. But all Christians do not make that contradiction. Some are quite consistent in their faith.
When thy push their faith and belief, I being a mean S O B, tell them to prove they have it by doing what Jesus says they can in scriptures. All he did and more.
Where exactly did you get this knowledge from?
And, who is 'they'?
You know this place exists, how?