Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:48 pm
You are in antithesis of this site's concept, "philosophy", as understood by a convention you disagree with.
No True Scotsman fallacy.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:48 pm
I challenge you to then go to a site you think is "scientific" if you think your views are
science and see if they agree with you.
Bandwagon fallacy.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:48 pm
Why are you attempting to overrule your philosophical contrary view about what you think is under the banner of 'science' if you trivialize philosophy as under its umbrella?
I mean, you can blame me for "trivializing" stuff. Or you can blame both communities for failing to come up with a meaningful distinction in 2000 years.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:48 pm
If you are right, then your success should be more apparent on a 'science' forum, right?
It depends on how you measure "success".
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Do you think that I don't find the same issue with how you are being contrary even where I show 'agreement' with some of your views?
Am I not allowed to hold whatever view I choose to hold? Even if it's one contrary to yours?
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
I can't help but notice that when or where I share some of your ideas that you inappropriately assign me in opposition when I'm not.
Pot, meet kettle.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
I'm a rational skeptic who believes in competing for views but it doesn't mean I am constant contrast to you that I keep noticing for anything I suggest. You keep expecting me (or others?) to learn your own vocabulary without exception and it makes it hard to discuss with you on the same level.
I expect nothing of this sort. I am perfectly capable of learning your vocabulary/definitions - Is just that most people's vocabularies/views are just narratives without any practical/utilitarian insight.
Mostly, I don't care about people's views - I care about their challenges and strategies for overcoming them. I am not a passive observer/narrator - I change things.
While philosophy prides itself on discussing ideas and defining things, they sure forget the definition of "idea".
idea
noun a thought or suggestion as to a
possible course of action.
Philosophy discussing "course of action" sure sounds like an oxymoron.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
If you want non-contrarianism, try doing what I suggested before with you: spell out your case here without expecting others to go do homework on your links as a pre-requisite to understanding you first.
My case is trivial. Without a priori criteria for success or failure all philosophical discussions are just arguments over semantics.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
If you have logical skills, develop them here without assuming the reader's specific background.
I have developed them. Enough to know that logic is not a tool for rhetoric/persuasion. Not sure why people even bother using it for that.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
I share your value in logic where you don't turn around and dis logic for complimenting you for it as though I just insulted you instead.
I doubt that. It's very unlikely you see logic the same way I do. It's just a modelling tool - LEGO for the mind.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
You asserted 'philosophy risks censure'. I had to first point out that 'censure' is not the right word because it means "to rebuke", not eliminate from respectful discourse the whole subject.
And I pointed out that social censure can lead to legislative censorship with broad enough social support. That is how all laws which restrict freedom of speech come about - social disapproval.
On a slippery slope censure is the first step towards censorship.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
"(Censure worthy things) risks censure." is how I am interpreting it.
Anything risks censure - social mood swings are unpredictable. Puppies may fall out of fashion next week and risk censure.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
So instead of defying my point, why not tell me if I was correct by asserting the OP likely meant, "censor"?
See! This is what I mean about philosophy boiling down to semantics. It doesn't matter!
The difference between "censure" and "censorship" is simply who disapproves of you and how much political power/influence they have.
If the people who censure you attain power, then they can censor you also!
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
You didn't affirm nor deny the error as though you didn't approve of my own "censor" for what I think IS a philosophical argument.
There's no error. It doesn't matter which one the OP meant - it doesn't affect the argument.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
So, you meant "censor", and not "censure". While "censor(ship)" implies "censure" is irrelevant. They are distinct meanings and the act of "discriminately hiding" content only coincidentally censures in secret, something one cannot discern for the content being censored as being 'hidden'.
Q.E.D semantic games. No substance.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Moving on, assuming you agree, then you are asserting that "philosophy risks censor(ship)" which then begs if you are suggesting censorship of the concept you define as "philosophy" or merely tweeting an oddly declarative statement without conviction or meaning, like "People risk censure." It begs a WHY to the statement.
Why? Because somebody doesn't like you and your collective. For reasons that are unbeknown to you.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
But before answering any "why", we need to know what you mean by "philosophy". And from your prior posts, you define it in high contrast to the conventional meaning of it to which this very site's position is ABOUT 'philosophy' ....or you are on the wrong site to speak in a way that suggests this site too should be censored.
I care not to define it. Those who self-identify and self-label as Philosophers are a sufficiently representative sample for Philosophy.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm
I'm assuming you understand this argument giving charity to the virtue of logic we both share without insult, right?
Like I said. Our conceptions and utility of logic are very far apart.
You use it to construct arguments. I don't use logic for that.
I use logic to construct plausible models of reality and calculate/compute the likelihood of outcomes/consequences.
I use logic for risk management.