The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Last edited by bahman on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
The above point is too loose.

It is the sensory circuits in the brain that collect sensory inputs to perform whatever is necessary for the brain to function as a part of the mind.
I don't see the mind as merely represented by the brain but also include the whole body.

Not sure what you meant by 'we experience everything'.
We experience what is possible to be experienced humanly.
  • Experience = practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
There are activities within the human system that are not experienced as defined above.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:57 am
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
The above point is too loose.

It is the sensory circuits in the brain that collect sensory inputs to perform whatever is necessary for the brain to function as a part of the mind.
I don't see the mind as merely represented by the brain but also include the whole body.

Not sure what you meant by 'we experience everything'.
We experience what is possible to be experienced humanly.
  • Experience = practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
There are activities within the human system that are not experienced as defined above.
The brain is neither a part of the mind nor creates the mind. The brain collects sensory input from the sensory organs, works on them, and deliver them to the mind.

In regard to experiencing everything, the mind has the ability to experience everything and not a limited amount of environment around our bodies. Our experiences, however, seem to be limited. That means that the information of everything is codded within the context of experiences.
Dimebag
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind

Post by Dimebag »

bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:36 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:57 am
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
The above point is too loose.

It is the sensory circuits in the brain that collect sensory inputs to perform whatever is necessary for the brain to function as a part of the mind.
I don't see the mind as merely represented by the brain but also include the whole body.

Not sure what you meant by 'we experience everything'.
We experience what is possible to be experienced humanly.
  • Experience = practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
There are activities within the human system that are not experienced as defined above.
The brain is neither a part of the mind nor creates the mind. The brain collects sensory input from the sensory organs, works on them, and deliver them to the mind.

In regard to experiencing everything, the mind has the ability to experience everything and not a limited amount of environment around our bodies. Our experiences, however, seem to be limited. That means that the information of everything is codded within the context of experiences.
This assertion is not supported by current best knowledge of neuroscience. If mind is used as a term at all, it is absolutely referred to as an emergent aspect of the brain. Emergent properties rely on lower level substrates. The substrate of the mind is the brain. If it’s not in your view, then what, in your view is the substrate of the mind, as well as the substrate of consciousness?

My guess is you will say something like, the concepts of brain and neurons are something appearing in consciousness. While this IS true, it is also true that, things remain even when consciousness is not there to apprehend them, vis-à-vis why when you sleep at night, and you fully lose consciousness, your brain doesn’t disappear as well, as if it did, the consciousness could not re-emerge the next morning. There are things, this is a point you can’t get around. The things are not what they appear to be, that is true, but there is still something which we call a brain, some structure or assembly or “atoms” from which our minds emerge.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide sensory inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:30 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:36 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:57 am
The above point is too loose.

It is the sensory circuits in the brain that collect sensory inputs to perform whatever is necessary for the brain to function as a part of the mind.
I don't see the mind as merely represented by the brain but also include the whole body.

Not sure what you meant by 'we experience everything'.
We experience what is possible to be experienced humanly.
  • Experience = practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
There are activities within the human system that are not experienced as defined above.
The brain is neither a part of the mind nor creates the mind. The brain collects sensory input from the sensory organs, works on them, and deliver them to the mind.

In regard to experiencing everything, the mind has the ability to experience everything and not a limited amount of environment around our bodies. Our experiences, however, seem to be limited. That means that the information of everything is codded within the context of experiences.
This assertion is not supported by current best knowledge of neuroscience. If mind is used as a term at all, it is absolutely referred to as an emergent aspect of the brain. Emergent properties rely on lower level substrates.
There are three points here: 1) Mind is the fundamental entity of reality, 2) There is no emergence and 3) Emergence even if it was real normally refers to a property rather than a thing, such as a mind. I have a separate argument for 1) and 2) that I would share it if you are interested.
Dimebag wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:30 pm The substrate of the mind is the brain. If it’s not in your view, then what, in your view is the substrate of the mind, as well as the substrate of consciousness?
In my view mind is the essence of any being or thing with the ability to experience and cause. Consciousness is the ability of the mind (ability to experience). There is no substrate for consciousness and mind.
Dimebag wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:30 pm My guess is you will say something like, the concepts of brain and neurons are something appearing in consciousness. While this IS true, it is also true that, things remain even when consciousness is not there to apprehend them, vis-à-vis why when you sleep at night, and you fully lose consciousness, your brain doesn’t disappear as well, as if it did, the consciousness could not re-emerge the next morning. There are things, this is a point you can’t get around. The things are not what they appear to be, that is true, but there is still something which we call a brain, some structure or assembly or “atoms” from which our minds emerge.
The functioning of the brain changes when we are sleeping or when we are on the drug. These different functionings lead to different inputs for the mind.
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Sculptor
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

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bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
commonsense
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by commonsense »

Never coddle a mind.
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by Impenitent »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
Holy Mackerel Batman!

-Imp
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
So don't have mind and body?
Dimebag
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by Dimebag »

bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:21 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
So don't have mind and body?
Mind is brain function, brain is part of the body. You break them up conceptually to understand them but fact is no body, no brain, no mind.
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Sculptor
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:21 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind. We experience everything. Experience, however, is codded differently for each mind.
Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
So don't have mind and body?
Are you talking about a cod or you?
Where does the mind end and the body begin?
You can add as many "ands" ans you like, but you have no justification to the range of dualities of your conception empirically.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

Dimebag wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:07 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:21 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
So don't have mind and body?
Mind is brain function, brain is part of the body. You break them up conceptually to understand them but fact is no body, no brain, no mind.
You were saying that the mind emerges as brain function. Now, you are saying that the mind is the brain function itself.
zinnat13
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by zinnat13 »

I have to say that bahman stance is correct. Mind is a different entity from brain and brain does not manifest it either.

Brain is doing entity while mind obseves/feels that brain input data and redirect mind to act upon. to put in a more understablale terms, our body is hardware, Brain is a software and mind is a computer oprator, though most modern day intelletals disagree with this. But, they are wrong and this can be proved easily.

with love,
sanjay
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

The mind is the set of cognitive faculties including consciousness, imagination, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory, which is housed in the brain (sometimes including the central nervous system).
It [mind] is usually defined as the faculty of an entity's thoughts and consciousness.[3] It holds the power of imagination, recognition, and appreciation, and is responsible for processing feelings and emotions, resulting in attitudes and actions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind#Philosophy_of_mind
The concept of mind above is a top down approach, i.e. starting with the empirical existence of a person [entity]'s actions which are activated from the person whole systems which is attributed to the mind as defined above.
The mind in this case is an emergent out of the person in interaction with its external environment.
Such a mind is empirically and philosophically verifiable and justifiable.

Bahman's and Zinnat's theory assumed a pre-existing mind that exudes bottom-up to triggers the actions of the person.
This approach of a pre-existing mind that exists is baseless and groundless with no possibility of empirical verification justifications.
This theory is not tenable as reflected in the mind-body dualism problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_problem
The ultimate claim of a mind that is separate from the brain culminate in claiming an individual soul that exists and survives physical death. In addition, some would claim such a mind is a subset of a greater mind, i.e. God.
This claim is driven psychologically as compelled by an existential crisis. In this case, the independent mind as claimed is an illusion and cannot be anything real.
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bahman
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Re: The duty of the brain is to provide inputs to the mind

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:48 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:21 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:45 pm

Hopeless dualism.
Naive teleology.

PS
I prefer Haddock to Cod.
So don't have mind and body?
Are you talking about a cod or you?
Where does the mind end and the body begin?
You can add as many "ands" ans you like, but you have no justification to the range of dualities of your conception empirically.
The mind is an irreducible entity (it has no extension) so it cannot be found. The body, however, has an extension so it can be found.
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