Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:24 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:50 pm

Why would one not choose the form of "religion" one felt or knew to be "most true"? :shock: That would be silly, surely.
It's all about the cash.

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DL

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:34 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:50 pm

Why would one not choose the form of "religion" one felt or knew to be "most true"? :shock: That would be silly, surely.
It's all about the cash.
Your religion is? :shock:

If that's what you meant, hat's kind of a surprising level of honesty. I was referring to Gnosticism...don't you think it's true? Do you have a "cash" motive for believing it?

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:20 pm
All labels aside; all have a tribal nature and all have a spiritual side.
Atheists say not. So do other Materialists.

So I guess you'd have to say they were lying or misguided.
Please show this testimony.

Not to be rude, but I think you pulled that out of your assumption files.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDEdFxUZ01s

Just kidding buddy.

I would like the stats though.

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DL

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Immanuel Can » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:44 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:20 pm
All labels aside; all have a tribal nature and all have a spiritual side.
Atheists say not. So do other Materialists.

So I guess you'd have to say they were lying or misguided.
Please show this testimony.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/materialism-philosophy

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:51 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:44 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 pm

Atheists say not. So do other Materialists.

So I guess you'd have to say they were lying or misguided.
Please show this testimony.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/materialism-philosophy
What is this trash?

Regards
DL

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:34 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:50 pm

Why would one not choose the form of "religion" one felt or knew to be "most true"? :shock: That would be silly, surely.
It's all about the cash.
Your religion is? :shock:

If that's what you meant, hat's kind of a surprising level of honesty. I was referring to Gnosticism...don't you think it's true? Do you have a "cash" motive for believing it?
You are a goof.

Gnosticism is a way of thinking. A religion is a tribe. We go within for guidance and not to the tribe. We are free thinkers and put man above god the way Jesus did.

We see heaven all around us the way Jesus and other esoteric ecumenists adepts do.

Regards
DL

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:48 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 pm
Gnosticism is a way of thinking.
Everybody but you seems to know it's a religion.

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:48 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 pm
Gnosticism is a way of thinking.
Everybody but you seems to know it's a religion.
It is classed as that, no argument, but religions are tribes, and there can and are Gnostics in all tribes.

There are even Gnostic Muslims which defies belief given some kill apostates. Almost like inquisitions.

Whatever label you put on yourself likely denotes a thinking pattern.

We all live some blend of the ideals and thinking of those we emulate. We are tribal and doing what comes naturally.

Regards
DL

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Immanuel Can » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:16 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:48 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 pm
Gnosticism is a way of thinking.
Everybody but you seems to know it's a religion.
It is classed as that, no argument, but religions are tribes, and there can and are Gnostics in all tribes.
Well, there's a variety of Gnostics, it's true.

That doesn't suggest they're not "religious," nor that they don't have core elements of their "faith" in common. They do.

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Greatest I am » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:37 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:16 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:48 am

Everybody but you seems to know it's a religion.
It is classed as that, no argument, but religions are tribes, and there can and are Gnostics in all tribes.
Well, there's a variety of Gnostics, it's true.

That doesn't suggest they're not "religious," nor that they don't have core elements of their "faith" in common. They do.
Sure some are tribal. Better said, we are all tribal but some do not mature, god wise, as quickly as others.

Fait, as often described, is garbage to most Gnostics. We like logos and not mythos.

Scriptures say, come and reason. You cannot reason with mythos thinkers. That is the harm of idol worship.

Regards
DL

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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:52 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:59 pm
I doubt you value Leviticus.
It's a harder book, for sure.

to each their own
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
But I do value it. It has some really neat things in it,
I don't see value in that work - but maybe missed something, what do you see of value in it? curious.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
so tell my why you like those works above Sir!

Oh, different reasons...not all for the same reason, obviously.
I'd welcome your top 3 or 4 works and why you value theme.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
Why did you pick those you picked?
Thanks for asking - and why this forum is here (discussion).

note all works of the bible were written by a person that wished to write about a theme to his congregation. Sometimes the work is more tuned to the times and audience that lived at that time - and not for audiences miinia later (The Apocalypse for example - Rome is the enemy, the whore sits on the seven hills of the city of Rome, Nero is the antichrist - personally. theme is apt to persons living in the near east at that time, but not so much in the here and now (new revisionist views of independant baptists/penotcostals of Roman Catholic Pope as the antichrist/gog and megog - third temple be built before christ comes/etc is hogwash and not in that work an any way.

BTW i think the author of that work was a former Essene, converted to Christianity (so a former Jewish Nationalist and prob a follower to John the Bap prior to becoming a follower of JoB deciple Jesus.


in order of personal favorites:

Amos - Theme:

Pride =Sin

Day of Yahwah should not be welcomed (Pentocostal's welcoming the end times anyone? - 2800 yrs later!), but feared! (ie. only the pridefull assume they are pure and welcome the end times (they assumed they will be saved). Pride comes before the fall! Such a prideful mindset is hubtris and the opposite of the virtue Humility.

the Humble to not welcome nor wish for the Day of Yahwah, instead the pray to their God to not have it (due to having a mind toward Humility (maybe i do not measure up even though i an Amos/follow Amos/etc))! Lets just call it off, and hope we can become better without nearly all of us being damned on the Day of Yahwah.

Jonah - Theme:

all men are brothers in spirit and nature (regardless of tribe/faith). this author shows Jonah as a dick throughout the work (relucant to go the Niniva, hates the plant that his God makes grow to shade him at the end of the work, ignores that even the "cows" of Niniva wear sackcloth, sleeps while the heathen polytheistic greek fishermen are nashing thier teeth over whether to throw Jonah overboard or not to appease their Posidon/etc.

so that works theme is Universal Humanism - written shorty after Ezra's tribal screed forbidding Jews and NonJews from intermarrying (and nullifing such marriages - fresh off the Persion/Babylonian boat - freedom via King Darius - to return to the land of the Jews (being gone 73 yrs and not even being born there - i.e a foriegner - now telling the "natives" that their wifes/husbands are thugs of no morality for not being Jews and said marraiges are null and void). Jonah was written around 300 BC - century after Ezra's filth, to counter it - all men are the same - some are dicks some as not - same proportion regardless of thier faith.

Job - theme:

Question not God. to so is to claim you are God! instead be Humble and submit to all the shit God give you (theme of Job - is similar to Amos, though Amos is more toward Pride as a vise (and Humilty is the opposite of) - while Job is about not questioning god's nature or actions - and by not questioning one is Humble.

Job is the newest work BTW - it was written around 250 yrs BC - when the Jews were wondering if thier God was just to allow first the Babylonians to rule then, and then the Persians (esp after Darius "freed the Jews" 200 yrs prior (when he in effect "Freed them" (killed? Zarababel - died), yet remained under rule of Persia as a "protectorate" (until the Greeks took control, then the Jews freed themselves of the Greeks via the Macabbess (refer to those 3 works - in the Appocripha/Greek Orthodox Church's Canon)........................by 250 BC jewish folks were starting to doubt thier God's morality and their Faith - being an occupied land for 2-3 centuries.

Author's of that work is quite bleak but also apt: To not question God! to do so is to claim you are your God and sinful.

Author's answer as to why God allows injustice to the Jews is likewise bleak, there is no answer man/you nor I can know. Shit just happans, deal with it. Job is a very Fatalistic work (Fatalism is a concept foriegn to americans - who think they are self made) - but it quite common in the 3d world (as well as all cultures 2300 yrs ago).


Gospel of Mark is my 4th - for the author showing the humanity and uncertantiy ("why must i die?"(its a mystery of YHWH's)) of the person Jesus. and so i can relate to him personally as a man like me with fears/etc.



thanks for reply.

--------------

I'd still love to know your top 3-4 and why so.

gaffo
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:05 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:54 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:08 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:44 pm


I tend to reciprocate and do not raise my voice till the volume coming to me is high

except you told me to in effect fuck myself last year, even after you and i conversing in that other now gone forum "bible-disscussion" for what? 10 years?
You likely deserved it.
LOL - literal guffaw - and yes i probably did deserve it ;-).

Regards

PG

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:13 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:52 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:59 pm
I doubt you value Leviticus.
It's a harder book, for sure.

to each their own
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
But I do value it. It has some really neat things in it,
I don't see value in that work - but maybe missed something, what do you see of value in it? curious.
It's a very typologically complex book, one that has a lot to offer, but does not offer much on the surface. There's a lot of digging and background, cultural, historical, linguistic, and symbolic, that has to go on to get stuff out of it.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
I'd welcome your top 3 or 4 works and why you value theme.
Too hard a task, I fear. It's not so easy, because I see different values in each of the books. Some are easier, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. Some are harder, but that doesn't make them bad. The value in each of them is that it does what it's supposed to do.

So, for example, Proverbs is a book of...proverbs. Those are short sayings, not necessarily always connected to each other immediately. But you'll get nothing out of the Psalms by reading them as if it were composed of proverbs, because it's a kind of flowing song-book instead. Or if you treat Romans like a collection of proverbs, it will make no sense at all. But if you look for the kinds of thematic strings one gets in a book like Hebrews, while one is reading Proverbs, one is bound to be disappointed....and so on.

Different purposes, different content, different styles...66 books, and each with its own value. A very hard task to compare those "apples to oranges."
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
Why did you pick those you picked?
Thanks for asking - and why this forum is here (discussion).

in order of personal favorites:
Amos - Theme: Pride =Sin

Jonah - Theme: Universal Humanism

Job - theme: Question not God.
Hmm...Well, I would have to say I see those books differently. There is something important to your gloss on Amos; I can go with you there. However, I don't think you've caught Jonah's purpose right, and I'd actually suppose the opposite from your gloss on Job. But, of course, you're entitled to say what you think there. I asked.

Thanks for sharing.

gaffo
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:51 pm


So your view is that "Catholic" and "Christian" are the same thing?

they are the same Sir, same theology - slight differences that do not matter (Jesus is the Massiah and Son of God is all that matters at the core)- so Cahtolics are as Christian as Prots.

just as Shia as the same as Sunni per the Muslims per core theology.


...............

now if you want to talk about if the Addowites or Ahmadiyya are "real" Muslims, or if Mormans or Jehavah Wisnesses are "real" christians, we can have a real talk about it.

but per the Catholics are not Christian implication - you are all wet Sir.

they are.

gaffo
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Re: Jesus was a Jew. Why do some Christians and Muslims hate Jews?

Post by gaffo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:21 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:13 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:52 am
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am

It's a harder book, for sure.

to each their own
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
But I do value it. It has some really neat things in it,
I don't see value in that work - but maybe missed something, what do you see of value in it? curious.
It's a very typologically complex book, one that has a lot to offer, but does not offer much on the surface. There's a lot of digging and background, cultural, historical, linguistic, and symbolic, that has to go on to get stuff out of it.
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
I'd welcome your top 3 or 4 works and why you value theme.
Too hard a task, I fear. It's not so easy, because I see different values in each of the books. Some are easier, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. Some are harder, but that doesn't make them bad. The value in each of them is that it does what it's supposed to do.

So, for example, Proverbs is a book of...proverbs. Those are short sayings, not necessarily always connected to each other immediately. But you'll get nothing out of the Psalms by reading them as if it were composed of proverbs, because it's a kind of flowing song-book instead. Or if you treat Romans like a collection of proverbs, it will make no sense at all. But if you look for the kinds of thematic strings one gets in a book like Hebrews, while one is reading Proverbs, one is bound to be disappointed....and so on.

Different purposes, different content, different styles...66 books, and each with its own value. A very hard task to compare those "apples to oranges."
Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:01 am
Why did you pick those you picked?
Thanks for asking - and why this forum is here (discussion).

in order of personal favorites:
Amos - Theme: Pride =Sin

Jonah - Theme: Universal Humanism

Job - theme: Question not God.
Hmm...Well, I would have to say I see those books differently. There is something important to your gloss on Amos; I can go with you there. However, I don't think you've caught Jonah's purpose right, and I'd actually suppose the opposite from your gloss on Job. But, of course, you're entitled to say what you think there. I asked.

Thanks for sharing.

thanks for reply - take your time on your top 3-4 books and why so (I'll be here next week).

per my view of Job differing from yours, who so? curious.

same with my missing Jonah's purpose per your view.

peace.

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