Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2533
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: just one more thing, Flash...

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:39 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:37 am I mean those things are both fruits, right...
I guess you're not above the occasional pun. :wink:
Do you know, I actually removed a line where I demanded points for putting that one because I wasn't sure Henry is in the mood for me to be charming and whimsical.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9261
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by henry quirk »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:31 am
henry quirk wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:18 am Yer just lobbin' crap at Mannie.
I'm sure mister helicopter rides is totally above that sort of thing. You climb up on that high horse and ride it till it's a donkey :)
I'm the utterly self-consistent superman: my horse has wings.
Flash wrote:those things are both fruits right,
HA!

What a delightfully intolerant bit of funny from such a tolerant man.

👍🏻
Flash wrote:I wasn't sure Henry is in the mood for me to be charming and whimsical.
That's always preferable to bitchy and hypocritical.... 😉
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:17 am
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:59 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:39 pm Well, if you say that at some age they should be exposed to transgenderism, at what age would you think was developmentally appropriate for them?
Well, there is love, where you protect a child and then there's smother love where you overprotect a child.
Not talking about that, Gary.
But maybe puberty would be an OK age for children to be exposed to transsexual teachers.
Okay, let's say...12 then, on average. No transgender teachers in elementary schools. We're agreed on that much.

What makes you think that a 12 year old is ripe for dealing with adult sexual deviant behaviours?
Well, like any other teacher, presumably a transgender person wouldn't be allowed to discuss their sex life with the kids. So the kids wouldn't really be dealing with their sexual behaviors. Granted mom and dad may explain it to them or they may learn somewhere else but that's going to happen regardless. Kids are pretty savvy about stuff like that even when we try to hide it from them. And kids these days generally seem pretty accepting of diversity. Many of the young people I have met have been pretty open-minded and accepting of diverse life styles.

What really concerns me most is that I think it could be discrimination and it's wrong to discriminate against someone. I can't conscience discriminating against someone. We went through that with Jim Crow and the Nazis did it and it just seems horribly bad. We still deal with a lot of the frustrations and anger of people who's parents or grandparents went through discrimination. I don't think I want to be responsible for another human being's misery. I may not like what they like but as long as they keep their private lives out of mine, then I'm fine. I would like to allow people as much freedom and choices as possible so that they can be happy in life. I think that's the bottom line. And, as skepdick posted, doing the least harm seems to be a good rule to live by. That and treat others the way I would like to be treated.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9519
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:53 am Well, like any other teacher, presumably a transgender person wouldn't be allowed to discuss their sex life with the kids. So the kids wouldn't really be dealing with their sexual behaviors.
Only if you take their eyes and ears away. Otherwise, they're naturally going to need an explanation for the dude in the dress.
And kids these days generally seem pretty accepting of diversity. Many of the young people I have met have been pretty open-minded and accepting of diverse life styles.
That's the problem: they have no discernment. They are so eager to be accepted, and so little grounded in their own sense of formed selfhood, that they don't know what to do with adult sexual dysfunctions. So they "accept" without having criteria for examining, and without knowing how to organize that for themselves. Their "open-mindedness" is usually not a sign of sophistication or high virtue; it's a product of moral unawareness.
What really concerns me most is that I think it could be discrimination and it's wrong to discriminate against someone.
"Discrimination" is actually a neutral word. It has two sides: if you "discriminate" against people on the basis of race, for example, it's bad. But if you "discriminate" among fine wines, you are a connoisseur; and if you know how to "discriminate" among medicines, you're a pharmacist.

The problem is not "discrimination," left undefined further. The question is, "What is it really moral to tolerate?" Again, for example, we should tolerate the mistakes children need to make when they learn; but I trust we will never become so amoral as to tolerate spousal abuse, right?

People who refuse to discriminate among the people they allow access to vulnerable children...are they good or bad for doing so? :shock:
I don't think I want to be responsible for another human being's misery.
You aren't. But when you don't tolerate an alcoholic having free access to a motor vehicle, you may make him unhappy. And when you refuse to allow a sexually dysfunctional person access to your children, he or she may also be offended. That cannot be helped. It's also not your fault.
I may not like what they like but as long as they keep their private lives out of mine, then I'm fine.
Are you willing to be as cavalier with your children's lives?
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:28 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:53 am Well, like any other teacher, presumably a transgender person wouldn't be allowed to discuss their sex life with the kids. So the kids wouldn't really be dealing with their sexual behaviors.
Only if you take their eyes and ears away. Otherwise, they're naturally going to need an explanation for the dude in the dress.
I assume all you have to say to the kids is that he has a condition where he identifies as a female. You don't have to get into anything having to do with his sex life or any more detail than that.
And kids these days generally seem pretty accepting of diversity. Many of the young people I have met have been pretty open-minded and accepting of diverse life styles.
That's the problem: they have no discernment. They are so eager to be accepted, and so little grounded in their own sense of formed selfhood, that they don't know what to do with adult sexual dysfunctions. So they "accept" without having criteria for examining, and without knowing how to organize that for themselves. Their "open-mindedness" is usually not a sign of sophistication or high virtue; it's a product of moral unawareness.
Well, isn't accepting someone like that a good thing, a sign of tolerance? And isn't tolerance a good thing? Should we teach children to be mean and make fun of the teacher or something?
What really concerns me most is that I think it could be discrimination and it's wrong to discriminate against someone.
"Discrimination" is actually a neutral word. It has two sides: if you "discriminate" against people on the basis of race, for example, it's bad. But if you "discriminate" among fine wines, you are a connoisseur; and if you know how to "discriminate" among medicines, you're a pharmacist.

The problem is not "discrimination," left undefined further. The question is, "What is it really moral to tolerate?" Again, for example, we should tolerate the mistakes children need to make when they learn; but I trust we will never become so amoral as to tolerate spousal abuse, right?

People who refuse to discriminate among the people they allow access to vulnerable children...are they good or bad for doing so? :shock:
I should have used the term "unjustified discrimination" not just discrimination. Yes. we all discriminate but if there's not justified reason to discriminate, then that seems like a bad thing to me.
I don't think I want to be responsible for another human being's misery.
You aren't. But when you don't tolerate an alcoholic having free access to a motor vehicle, you may make him unhappy. And when you refuse to allow a sexually dysfunctional person access to your children, he or she may also be offended. That cannot be helped. It's also not your fault.

I may not like what they like but as long as they keep their private lives out of mine, then I'm fine.
How is a person suffering from gender dysphoria like an alcoholic driving? I assume they aren't going to cause bodily injury to the children.
Are you willing to be as cavalier with your children's lives?
Yes. If it isn't going to harm them to be around someone with gender dysphoria.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9519
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:37 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:28 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:53 am Well, like any other teacher, presumably a transgender person wouldn't be allowed to discuss their sex life with the kids. So the kids wouldn't really be dealing with their sexual behaviors.
Only if you take their eyes and ears away. Otherwise, they're naturally going to need an explanation for the dude in the dress.
I assume all you have to say to the kids is that he has a condition where he identifies as a female. You don't have to get into anything having to do with his sex life or any more detail than that.
That's manifestly not going to work, Gary. Children are not stupid: and I think you'll find that they're way more sensitive to when things are "off" than you're perhaps giving them credit for.

But we have a worse problem here: you're not presently saying what age the "children" in question should be. We agreed they should be older than public school age, right? Did you pick middle school? High school? Beyond?

Well, I suggest that many pubescent young people are not going to stop asking questions with, "Why does Mr. Plumber wear a dress?"
Well, isn't accepting someone like that a good thing, a sign of tolerance?
Not always. I suppose you'd have no question that teaching children to "accept" and "tolerate" a pedophile would be bad...but you seem uncertain about other kinds of psycho-sexual deviancy.

To "tolerate" evil or injustice is never a good thing, I'm sure you know. The vexed question here is how far a good person goes in an effort to "tolerate" the sexual dysfunctions of others. And I'm suggesting that we stop well short of surrendering vulnerable children to them.
Should we teach children to be mean and make fun of the teacher or something?
Of course not. But neither should we teach them that psycho-sexual dysfunction is something to be trusted, approved, normalized, applauded, and even cultivated, as it is in our society presently.
I should have used the term "unjustified discrimination" not just discrimination.

Perhaps. But that's the vexed question, isn't it? What is the status of transgenderism, for someone entrusted with the care of vulnerable children?
How is a person suffering from gender dysphoria like an alcoholic driving? I assume they aren't going to cause bodily injury to the children.
I wonder if a car accident would last as long as psycho-sexual interference would?
Are you willing to be as cavalier with your children's lives?
Yes. If it isn't going to harm them to be around someone with gender dysphoria.
That's the problem, though.

We both agree that public school children are way too young to be compelled to deal with adults who are sexually dysfunctioning. Fair enough. But why would we agree to even this, if we did not perceive the harm that would be likely to come from it? :shock: And if we do perceive potential harm, at what age are we confident that children would no longer be susceptible to being misled in their own sexual development? :shock:

I'm still wondering what your watershed line is. Do you have an age in mind?
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:03 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:37 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:28 pm
Only if you take their eyes and ears away. Otherwise, they're naturally going to need an explanation for the dude in the dress.
I assume all you have to say to the kids is that he has a condition where he identifies as a female. You don't have to get into anything having to do with his sex life or any more detail than that.
That's manifestly not going to work, Gary. Children are not stupid: and I think you'll find that they're way more sensitive to when things are "off" than you're perhaps giving them credit for.

But we have a worse problem here: you're not presently saying what age the "children" in question should be. We agreed they should be older than public school age, right? Did you pick middle school? High school? Beyond?

Well, I suggest that many pubescent young people are not going to stop asking questions with, "Why does Mr. Plumber wear a dress?"
Well, isn't accepting someone like that a good thing, a sign of tolerance?
Not always. I suppose you'd have no question that teaching children to "accept" and "tolerate" a pedophile would be bad...but you seem uncertain about other kinds of psycho-sexual deviancy.

To "tolerate" evil or injustice is never a good thing, I'm sure you know. The vexed question here is how far a good person goes in an effort to "tolerate" the sexual dysfunctions of others. And I'm suggesting that we stop well short of surrendering vulnerable children to them.
Should we teach children to be mean and make fun of the teacher or something?
Of course not. But neither should we teach them that psycho-sexual dysfunction is something to be trusted, approved, normalized, applauded, and even cultivated, as it is in our society presently.
I should have used the term "unjustified discrimination" not just discrimination.

Perhaps. But that's the vexed question, isn't it? What is the status of transgenderism, for someone entrusted with the care of vulnerable children?
How is a person suffering from gender dysphoria like an alcoholic driving? I assume they aren't going to cause bodily injury to the children.
I wonder if a car accident would last as long as psycho-sexual interference would?
Are you willing to be as cavalier with your children's lives?
Yes. If it isn't going to harm them to be around someone with gender dysphoria.
That's the problem, though.

We both agree that public school children are way too young to be compelled to deal with adults who are sexually dysfunctioning. Fair enough. But why would we agree to even this, if we did not perceive the harm that would be likely to come from it? :shock: And if we do perceive potential harm, at what age are we confident that children would no longer be susceptible to being misled in their own sexual development? :shock:

I'm still wondering what your watershed line is. Do you have an age in mind?
OK. Maybe you are right. If being around someone with gender dysphoria might confuse my own children and perhaps lead them to some sort of gender dysphoria themselves, then, no, I wouldn't want my children going down that path in life. I suppose someone with gender dysphoria can find other jobs than teaching. But teaching, in particular, is maybe not a good idea.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9261
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Gary

Post by henry quirk »

make up your mind

take a stand
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Gary

Post by Gary Childress »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:14 pm make up your mind

take a stand
Don't worry so much about me. I have my hands full enough without people pushing at me to do things. Life is complicated.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 9261
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Gary

Post by henry quirk »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:28 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:14 pm make up your mind

take a stand
Don't worry so much about me. I have my hands full enough without people pushing at me to do things. Life is complicated.
I get that, Gary, but --- really -- the matter at hand is not that complicated.

Anyway: sorry to push.

I leave you to it: suss it out as you can.
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Gary

Post by Gary Childress »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:30 pm the matter at hand is not that complicated.
It seems complicated to me. But perhaps I'm just not as well organized mentally as you are.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 9519
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:13 pm OK. Maybe you are right. If being around someone with gender dysphoria might confuse my own children and perhaps lead them to some sort of gender dysphoria themselves, then, no, I wouldn't want my children going down that path in life. I suppose someone with gender dysphoria can find other jobs than teaching. But teaching, in particular, is maybe not a good idea.
That's my thought.

I think the right priority for a teacher is the protection of children, not the employment of the teacher.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 9283
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

If people think children are so 'resilient' then why do American 'celebrity children' end up so screwed up?
Angelina Jolie's daughter is apparently 'changing gender' (meaning taking lots of drugs and hormones), paid for by the self-absorbed, PC mother.
PC is not harmless. It's extremely harmFUL. It's self-absorbed, self-serving hypocrisy at its worst, and children are paying the price for these conceited wankers to get their virtue-signalling jollies.
FlashDangerpants
Posts: 2533
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:13 pm OK. Maybe you are right. If being around someone with gender dysphoria might confuse my own children and perhaps lead them to some sort of gender dysphoria themselves

In your own dealings with mental disorders, have you ever considered yourself contagious, are you patient zero in an outbreak of melancholia somewhere? If you met somebody with an irrational fear of houseplants, would you catch their fear of begonias from talking to them, or do you only get it from toilet seats?

Painting trannies as poor bewildered individuals subject to a pathology is the key method that Mannie is using to manipulate you. It's great because it stokes people's fear of the other, but it also gives you cover to feel all charitable while you oppress them, and even say it's for their own good.

If gender dysphoria is to be described as a mental pathology, it must cause the patient harm of some sort. Ostracising them, hounding them from their careers, forcing them to hide from some other bastard's shame and fear... this is actual harm, with outcomes that can include suicide. Letting them wear dresses if they feel more comfortable that way removes distress and allows a person to live according to their own self, this is not harmful to them, nor does it harm anyone else. If the person is happy and comfortable in their own skin, gender dysphoria is not a harmful pathology.

Children of any age can cope perfectly well with the information that some boys wear girl clothes. It is only a problem if their parents cannot.
Gary Childress
Posts: 2027
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: The Domain of Confusion

Re: Is There Such a Thing as Too Different?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:01 pm If people think children are so 'resilient' then why do American 'celebrity children' end up so screwed up?
Angelina Jolie's daughter is apparently 'changing gender' (meaning taking lots of drugs and hormones), paid for by the self-absorbed, PC mother.
PC is not harmless. It's extremely harmFUL. It's self-absorbed, self-serving hypocrisy at its worst, and children are paying the price for these conceited wankers to get their virtue-signalling jollies.
I guess an important question would be, what is the source of her child's gender dysphoria? Did the child pick it up by learning from others or is it some kind of natural condition such as an imbalance in chemicals that her body produces? If it's something that the child learns from others then I would say that we should not allow transgender people to be teachers. If it is only something that occurs because of a chemical imbalance and cannot be learned or "contracted" from others, then it seems to me like it would be safe to allow transgender people to be teachers.
Post Reply