Satyavan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:34 pm
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
That is one person's paper and from what I read (insuffient to determine the actual experiments) the conclusion doesn't follow.
If you look this up you will find several other similar accounts.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
The brain is not cut all the way through and thus communication between them still exists but through more basic parts of the lower brain.
Yes, but the most important communication is cut and no sign of self-awareness split occurs. This seems to me something one can not just sweep under the carpet.
You come across as too confident when this just is NOT the accepted view. I also gave you reasons why the author's reasoning is flawed on a logical basis.
For some reason I get the feeling that you are attempting to get agreement on your favored position to get onto something else? You just reasserted "no sign of self-awareness" occurs to which begs why you might think the majority thought they had this evidence. That is, if there is no evidence, it requires you expressly demonstrate what you mean by being so adamant to denying ANY EVIDENCE universally that even remotely suggests the split conscious hypothesis.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
If you placed those clocks I mentioned as an example I gave above on the wall, you could assure them quicker rates of getting in sync from randomized initial conditions when closer to each other. This is like the period when one is just initiating consciousness (from sleep, say) to when they awaken.
I don't consider myself unconscious when sleeping. Maybe we have to clarify the meaning of words we are using.
We require sleep so that the neurons may go into its cleanup phase that takes the 'flags' of short-term memory and builds it up while diminishing those cells that lack activity (pruning). This stage requires shutting down the awaken conscious state by stopping normal communications for this.
We have many 'conscious' substates and I would go so far as to say that ANY cells that have the same structure are also relatively 'conscious' as I mentioned above in different words. If we lack sleep, the long term memory cannot transfer those 'flags' of activity and why lacking sleep does cause memory problems.
We can also have different forms of consciousness. The shut down state is entangled but may still communicate in an alternate but relatively weaker form of consciousness. We at least need some emergency trigger to awaken us when danger occurs. As such, some part(s) of the brain definitely remain actively 'alert'. But our awakened consciousness is basically limited to the upper brain and this particular function is only a servant to the cells of the body as an interface to an unpredictable world. If we lack a reason to require seeking anything we want for being able to get it upon 'wanting' it, our conscious state would shut down altogether for lack of need. [ie, we reduce to vegatables]
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
But by the time of the sync, the rest of consciousness is connected.
Unclear to me what a "rest" of consciousness should mean. I don't feel myself as a sum of "parts of consciousness" with eventually some "rest" missing.
The process of awakening from sleep or the first time the brain turned on the brain gains consciousness by continuous degrees. The neurons are not sharing consciousness UNTIL they have the same DYNAMIC relationship as they do the same STRUCTURE. Thus, they require at first to get
in phase for the resonance of the common neurons to 'feel' one another as one.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
The connections only
confirm the activity later about what occurred in separate parts of the body. But once they are in sync, the brain 'feels' the whole.
Ok, that might well be. So what? Why should synchronization produce the feeling of being a whole with a conscious awareness? I don't see the connection... perhaps can't synchronize... ;
Yes, but also this confirms that one thing is motory control another the subjective feeling to be ONE conscious being.
Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:44 pm
I[t] demonstrates the capacity of non-thinking activity to become in sync. "Consciousness" is something we refer to by animals like us. As to calling the underlying physics "consciousness" might be like comparing a protein to a whole cell's activity demonstrating organized life. But the physics are the same and why we'd have to defer to quantum mechanics to deal with and understand. The clock example is related to the brain's activity as having a common frequency formula. Where the lengths of the pendulum differ, this effect doesn't occur. [By implication given the experiments only assert THAT they go in phase when having the same exact structure and pendulum lengths, there may be degrees of this and effects of harmonic frequencies that might trigger some resonant effects.]
Again, this does not in the least explains why a conscious awareness arises due to sync? Speaking of sync is a functional description of something which does not explain why it produces the effect of making a subject become conscious.
When electons in a conductor are 'sitting' still, the electrons normally are out of phase. When a potential difference of electrons exist on the ends of such a conductor, electrons begin to flow. But they don't immediately get there due to resistence and other factors. As they are speeding up (accelerating), they align and form a magnetic field around the wire. All the electrons during this stage are increasing that feild only while they are accelerating. Once the flow becomes constant, the are "in phase" in a similar way. The effect of a magnetic field existing at all that 'act at a distance' outside of the wire itself demonstrates an example of how resonance of many of the same things (same 'structure') increases the power of 'induction' and act as having the identical 'dynamic (structure)'. While I can't tell if this helps, that invisible stretch of magnetism has power to induce current elsewhere at a distance [or 'impede' the flow of another wire or conductor close by].
This is a form of 'consciousness' but without the complexity given we are made up of more than just electrons, etc.
I have drawn images to help explain this before. If I find them I'll see if I can attach them to help express this in a visual way.