A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Age
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:27 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
I don't know what contorted logic leads you to the conclusion that I know what Consciousness is. When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is. The day that somebody discovers how to measure Consciousness will be the day that we will know what Consciousness is and will have solved the Hard Problem.
''We'' aka Consciousness cannot know what Consciousness is. ''We'' aka Consciousness can only be IT
The collective of 'we' is 'I'. I, Consciousness, KNOW exactly what 'I', Consciousness, am. Just because 'you' does NOT YET know, does NOT mean that "others" do not ALREADY KNOW.

Are 'you' even able to understand this?

And, as I say, When 'you' STOP believing things and start LOOKING AT things FROM thee Truly Open Mind, instead of from the already held BELIEFS withing that body, then 'you' will also start SEEING and UNDERSTANDING thee actual Truth of things as well.

Instead, at the moment, 'you' are only seeing your own personal distorted version of Reality and Truth.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
''We'' can only BE ''knowing consciousness'' without knowing how or why or for what puropse other than to BE
This infers that the little one known as "dontaskme" KNOWS forever more what is and what is not possible, which also means that that individual 'one' also KNOWS what will and will NOT happen for eternity.

Besides this, saying 'we' can only BE 'knowing consciousness', but without knowing some things is so contradictory funny that it would be a joke if it was not actually believed to be true.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Consciousness is the singularity that is everything and nothing SIMultaneously ONE without a second.
WHY does the one "dontaskme" HAVE TO add the word 'nothing' when the word 'everything is used?

If some thing like; Consciousness is the singularity that is Everything together as One, was said, ("without a second" is unnecessary), then does that not just stand up on its own, without needed any support at all to be understood?

When 'you' use the 'nothing' word, then I wonder what 'you' are talking about, and then want to ask 'you', What do you mean when 'you' use the 'nothing' word here?
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Consciousness and it's content unify in a Self-luminous singularity about which nothing can be said or known for the simple reason that anything said or known is part-and-parcel of this same one singularity.
Does it seem very contradictory that Consciousness uses words to say that nothing can be said because anything said is part of the same singular Consciousness?

If yes, then WHY say this "stuff"? WHY say things like; "Words cannot explain things"?

WHY would Consciousness or any thing spend so much time telling Its Self that there is NO use in using words?

Just for your information to the one known as "dontaskme", and contrary to your person BELIEF, the ALL-Knowing single identity known as Consciousness KNOWS how to explain ALL-OF-THIS in very simple terms, and with very easy to understand WORDS, so that every one of 'you', adult human beings, are able to grasp onto, learn, and understand this KNOWING as well. However, to do this accurately and properly it just takes some time to learn how to communicate with 'you', human beings, better.

Since Consciousness has only Self-realized in relatively no time at all, in just a very short period ago, learning now the RIGHT words to use to help ALL of 'you', adult human beings, to become the more curious and naturally inquisitive one's that 'you' ALL used to be, so that 'you' will become the Truly wise ones that 'you' are meant to BE just takes some time.

BELIEVING things are NOT possible or can NOT be done only SLOWS this process down considerably.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Knowing is not known by a ''some thing'' Consciousness is the ONLY knowing there is that cannot be known again..YOU aka Consciousness are that KNOWING.
AND, EVERY time a 'you', like 'you', "dontaskme", uses the word 'you' are pointing out and SHOWING that there is an "other", which contradicts what 'you' say about there only BEING One.

This is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE because 'you' are continually being taught, WRONGLY by the way, to BELIEVE that there is NO 'I'.

Now, there is obviously NO 'I' from an individual separate identity sense of 'I',

But, there is obviously AN individual, singular, non-separated, non-dual One, which is the One and only Real and True 'I'. This True Self IS just the collective of EVERY thing. This Self is Consciousness, or just plain old God.

This I is best NEVER to be confused with those separate human beings who identify "themselves" and misrepresent "themselves" as 'I'.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Knowledge informs Consciousness the illusory nature of Consciousness as the appearance of no thing and everything SIMultaneously in the same INSTANT.
When 'you' explain WHY 'you' use the words 'no thing' then this will be better understood.

By the way, the words 'nothing' and 'no thing' do need to used to have ALL-OF-THIS FULLY explained and FULLY understood. But I am just curious to WHY you use those words and in what context.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Drop the idea that Consciousness has to be some thing to be known and the whole hard problem of not-knowing what it is dissolves while IT remains regardless.
Obviously there is nothing that NEEDS to be known. So, STOP assuming that every one ASSUMES there does. Obviously there is nothing that HAS TO be known. ALL animals, and brand new born human beings, are quite happy just living and BEing, without necessarily 'knowing' any thing at all. But because of human nature, human beings are born institutionally WANTING and DESIRING to discover and learn. Therefore, human beings collectively do NOT stop learning, and discovering, and understanding, and gaining more and more knowledge. This, however, is especially so in the young but unfortunately can all to quickly disappear to quickly as they age. (Also, there is just a much quicker and much simpler way of gaining knowledge and becoming wiser than the way human beings do it now, in the days of when this is written. Also, the ability to be able to distinguish between the true and right knowledge from the false and wrong knowledge almost immediately can also be gained much quicker as well).

Now, that we have SEEN the obvious FACT that nothing HAS TO known, including Consciousness Itself, then now we can LOOK TO the other obvious FACT, and that IS; Just because some thing does not necessarily have to be known does NOT take away from the FACT that 'it' could ALREADY be KNOWN, which, as I keep telling 'you' IT is ALREADY KNOWN.

That is; What Consciousness IS is ALREADY KNOWN. Do I make thy Self clear enough NOW?

Do you FULLY comprehend that just because one person does NOT YET know some thing, then that in NO way infers that that thing is NOT YET ALREADY known by some one else?

Also, do you understand that just because some one thinks that some thing can NEVER become known this in NO way means that this has absolutely any truth at all to it?

I will TELL you AGAIN, things like; What is Consciousness, God, Mind, Love, et cetera, and How do all these things work and work together are ALREADY KNOWN, and can be explained in very simple and easy to understand terms. ALL-OF-THIS is, literally, very easy to understand, and explain. But, ONLY to those that are interested, curious, and keen to learn and understand ALL-OF-THIS.

I KNOW that this is contrary to popular belief, in the days of when this is written, but it is still a FACT, which can not be disputed.
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
Let us compare Consciousness to something simple like a stick. We can say that the stick has a centre and two ends. The centre and the two ends are a way of conceptually dividing the stick - which can be great for practical purposes - but in actuality the centre and the two ends have no existence apart from the stick. We cannot remove them from the stick to end up with two separate ends without a centre, and a centre without two ends.

Same applies to Consciousness. IT can be conceptually divided in the perceiver, the perceiving and the perceived, but again this is all knowledge already couched within the singularity that is Consciousness knowing all ONE...Oneness cannot step outside of itself, no more than it can lift itself up by it's own bootstraps or jump over it's own shadow, for where ego I go infinitely for eternity, nowhere, now here always.

.
And all of this sounds like those ones known as "priests" have sounded like for centuries now. That is; they tell you you have to BELIEVE that God is true, because It IS. And, whenever questioned about what God is or how God creates things and/or everything, then that one will tell you that there are just some things that are not meant to be known.

That one known as "dontaskme" keeps telling us we have to BELIEVE non duality is ALL-THERE-IS, and that Consciousness exists, but when asked what Consciousness is and how non duality actually exists, then "dontaskme" tells us these things can not be explained in words and thus can not be known.

The resemblance is striking.

Now, the difference between 'I' from those of 'you' like that is I can actually explain and prove True what I claim, and I would certain NEVER tell 'you' to believe what I say. In fact I say the very opposite and say remain Open and SEE for "yourself" if it is True or not. Never take my word alone for any thing I say. After all i could be completely WRONG.

Age
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:30 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
I don't know what contorted logic leads you to the conclusion that I know what Consciousness is. When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is. The day that somebody discovers how to measure Consciousness will be the day that we will know what Consciousness is and will have solved the Hard Problem.
''We'' aka Consciousness cannot know what Consciousness is. ''We'' aka Consciousness can only be IT

''We'' can only BE ''knowing consciousness'' without knowing how or why or for what puropse other than to BE
Consciousness is the singularity that is everything and nothing SIMultaneously ONE without a second.

Consciousness and it's content unify in a Self-luminous singularity about which nothing can be said or known for the simple reason that anything said or known is part-and-parcel of this same one singularity.

Knowing is not known by a ''some thing'' Consciousness is the ONLY knowing there is that cannot be known again..YOU aka Consciousness are that KNOWING. Knowledge informs Consciousness the illusory nature of Consciousness as the appearance of no thing and everything SIMultaneously in the same INSTANT.

Drop the idea that Consciousness has to be some thing to be known and the whole hard problem of not-knowing what it is dissolves while IT remains regardless.

Let us compare Consciousness to something simple like a stick. We can say that the stick has a centre and two ends. The centre and the two ends are a way of conceptually dividing the stick - which can be great for practical purposes - but in actuality the centre and the two ends have no existence apart from the stick. We cannot remove them from the stick to end up with two separate ends without a centre, and a centre without two ends.

Same applies to Consciousness. IT can be conceptually divided in the perceiver, the perceiving and the perceived, but again this is all knowledge already couched within the singularity that is Consciousness knowing all ONE...Oneness cannot step outside of itself, no more than it can lift itself up by it's own bootstraps or jump over it's own shadow, for where ego I go infinitely for eternity, nowhere, now here always.



.
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness. You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Could it also be said; To know the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet is to Know something about Consciousness. You must Know something about that measurable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness has not be measured yet?

Or, does it not work that way?

SteveKlinko
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:03 am

Age wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:52 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 am


Well that infers that 'you', "yourself" actually do KNOW what 'Consciousness', Itself, IS. So, would you like to inform us of what the unambiguous, irrefutable Answer is to the question, What is Consciousness?"

Or, maybe you might prefer to show us the sound and valid argument for what Consciousness IS exactly?

When that is KNOWN, then that is HOW you will KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a brain stops functioning.

Also, why would some thing need to be measured to be able to show it? And, if no scientific experiment has shown you some thing, then are you completely and utterly not able to discover, learn, and/or understand things on your own?

Contrary to your BELIEF, I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain. However, you say that you NEED some way of measuring "Actual Consciousness", which unfortunately you do not yet have.
I don't know what contorted logic leads you to the conclusion that I know what Consciousness is.
Well if you do not know, then so be it. Was there a reason of informing us of this?

Obviously, if, however, you were somewhat curious as to what "contorted" logic lead me to the conclusion that you know what Consciousness is, then you would have asked me some sort of clarifying question, to which I would have then informed you of what I actually used to conclude that.

However, you do not show any interest nor curiosity at all, so this, to me, now infers that you believe wholeheartedly that you already know that I am WRONG, correct?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is.
One would have to know what some thing IS before they KNEW if it could be measured or not.

Do you KNOW what Consciousness IS?

If no, then HOW do you KNOW that It can not be measured?

Also, did you not read when I wrote:
I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

Or, do you just wholly dismiss this and so just reject it outright also?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
The day that somebody discovers how to measure Consciousness will be the day that we will know what Consciousness is and will have solved the Hard Problem.
There is NO hard problem, as this so called "problem", and the other perceived so called "problems", have ALREADY been solved.

I KNOW the Answers and the Solution to all those perceived "problems".
Ok so show me how Consciousness is being measured.

SteveKlinko
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:05 am

Age wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:30 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:25 pm


''We'' aka Consciousness cannot know what Consciousness is. ''We'' aka Consciousness can only be IT

''We'' can only BE ''knowing consciousness'' without knowing how or why or for what puropse other than to BE
Consciousness is the singularity that is everything and nothing SIMultaneously ONE without a second.

Consciousness and it's content unify in a Self-luminous singularity about which nothing can be said or known for the simple reason that anything said or known is part-and-parcel of this same one singularity.

Knowing is not known by a ''some thing'' Consciousness is the ONLY knowing there is that cannot be known again..YOU aka Consciousness are that KNOWING. Knowledge informs Consciousness the illusory nature of Consciousness as the appearance of no thing and everything SIMultaneously in the same INSTANT.

Drop the idea that Consciousness has to be some thing to be known and the whole hard problem of not-knowing what it is dissolves while IT remains regardless.

Let us compare Consciousness to something simple like a stick. We can say that the stick has a centre and two ends. The centre and the two ends are a way of conceptually dividing the stick - which can be great for practical purposes - but in actuality the centre and the two ends have no existence apart from the stick. We cannot remove them from the stick to end up with two separate ends without a centre, and a centre without two ends.

Same applies to Consciousness. IT can be conceptually divided in the perceiver, the perceiving and the perceived, but again this is all knowledge already couched within the singularity that is Consciousness knowing all ONE...Oneness cannot step outside of itself, no more than it can lift itself up by it's own bootstraps or jump over it's own shadow, for where ego I go infinitely for eternity, nowhere, now here always.



.
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness. You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Could it also be said; To know the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet is to Know something about Consciousness. You must Know something about that measurable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness has not be measured yet?

Or, does it not work that way?
Explain to me how to measure Consciousness.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:39 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:03 am
Age wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:52 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm

I don't know what contorted logic leads you to the conclusion that I know what Consciousness is.
Well if you do not know, then so be it. Was there a reason of informing us of this?

Obviously, if, however, you were somewhat curious as to what "contorted" logic lead me to the conclusion that you know what Consciousness is, then you would have asked me some sort of clarifying question, to which I would have then informed you of what I actually used to conclude that.

However, you do not show any interest nor curiosity at all, so this, to me, now infers that you believe wholeheartedly that you already know that I am WRONG, correct?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is.
One would have to know what some thing IS before they KNEW if it could be measured or not.

Do you KNOW what Consciousness IS?

If no, then HOW do you KNOW that It can not be measured?

Also, did you not read when I wrote:
I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

Or, do you just wholly dismiss this and so just reject it outright also?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:24 pm
The day that somebody discovers how to measure Consciousness will be the day that we will know what Consciousness is and will have solved the Hard Problem.
There is NO hard problem, as this so called "problem", and the other perceived so called "problems", have ALREADY been solved.

I KNOW the Answers and the Solution to all those perceived "problems".
Ok so show me how Consciousness is being measured.
But you said that you are 100% sure the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain, and now you want little 'me' to show you, what you say you know100% sure can not be done.

This seems a bit of an impossible task, correct?

Also, it appears that you did not see or not comprehend the actual words I wrote. Did I say any thing about me being able to measure Consciousness?

By the way why does some thing HAVE TO be measured BEFORE they KNOW what that thing IS?

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Dontaskme
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness.
Consciousness is a concept KNOWN. To know a concept, to know a KNOWN, you first have to BE.
To BE or BEING is just another word for consciousness which is the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not depend on a concept to BE...consciousness is primary and fundamental. On the other hand a concept depends on consciousness to be KNOWN.

Consciousness does not claim or take the position of the concept it knows. A 'person' is a known concept of the formless. The concept known knows nothing of it's existence because it doesn't have an existence apart from the consciousness in which is it KNOWN.

A concept cannot know anything because A CONCEPT is already known by consciousness. There is no separation or split between knower and known..There is no other knower/knowing apart from consciousness itself, you are that.
Consciousness does not need a concept in order to BE - but a concept needs a consciousness to be known, consciousness is the only knowing there is. The only reason consciousness which is formless becomes known to itself is when it artificially takes on the shape of it's own known concept, pretending to be that in the form of ''otherness'' albeit illusory, since the concept is no thing other than the formless appearing as an illusory form.

I cannot make any more clearer than that.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Consciousness cannot be known by what conciousness knows, aka a concept. Consciousness is the only knowing.

See above.


.

SteveKlinko
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:39 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:03 am
Age wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:52 pm


Well if you do not know, then so be it. Was there a reason of informing us of this?

Obviously, if, however, you were somewhat curious as to what "contorted" logic lead me to the conclusion that you know what Consciousness is, then you would have asked me some sort of clarifying question, to which I would have then informed you of what I actually used to conclude that.

However, you do not show any interest nor curiosity at all, so this, to me, now infers that you believe wholeheartedly that you already know that I am WRONG, correct?



One would have to know what some thing IS before they KNEW if it could be measured or not.

Do you KNOW what Consciousness IS?

If no, then HOW do you KNOW that It can not be measured?

Also, did you not read when I wrote:
I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

Or, do you just wholly dismiss this and so just reject it outright also?



There is NO hard problem, as this so called "problem", and the other perceived so called "problems", have ALREADY been solved.

I KNOW the Answers and the Solution to all those perceived "problems".
Ok so show me how Consciousness is being measured.
But you said that you are 100% sure the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain, and now you want little 'me' to show you, what you say you know100% sure can not be done.

This seems a bit of an impossible task, correct?

Also, it appears that you did not see or not comprehend the actual words I wrote. Did I say any thing about me being able to measure Consciousness?

By the way why does some thing HAVE TO be measured BEFORE they KNOW what that thing IS?
I thought little you said that Consciousness could be measured, not that you invented the method. Ok so you are admitting that Consciousness cannot be measured yet.

As I said, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved. You say this has already been accomplished. I say it has not. I'm just putting in a request for you to show me the proof that Science or any other discipline of knowledge or truth knows what Consciousness is. Then either little you can explain it directly or you can provide a link that does. Thank You.

SteveKlinko
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness.
Consciousness is a concept KNOWN. To know a concept, to know a KNOWN, you first have to BE.
To BE or BEING is just another word for consciousness which is the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not depend on a concept to BE...consciousness is primary and fundamental. On the other hand a concept depends on consciousness to be KNOWN.

Consciousness does not claim or take the position of the concept it knows. A 'person' is a known concept of the formless. The concept known knows nothing of it's existence because it doesn't have an existence apart from the consciousness in which is it KNOWN.

A concept cannot know anything because A CONCEPT is already known by consciousness. There is no separation or split between knower and known..There is no other knower/knowing apart from consciousness itself, you are that.
Consciousness does not need a concept in order to BE - but a concept needs a consciousness to be known, consciousness is the only knowing there is. The only reason consciousness which is formless becomes known to itself is when it artificially takes on the shape of it's own known concept, pretending to be that in the form of ''otherness'' albeit illusory, since the concept is no thing other than the formless appearing as an illusory form.

I cannot make any more clearer than that.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Consciousness cannot be known by what conciousness knows, aka a concept. Consciousness is the only knowing.

See above.


.
What you are saying might all be true, but it requires a complete surrender of any kind of Logical or Scientific thinking. That might not be such a bad thing. I just can't reboot my Brain yet to think the way you do. But I am still trying to understand that Oneness thing that you are so sure of.

Age
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:07 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:39 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:03 am

Ok so show me how Consciousness is being measured.
But you said that you are 100% sure the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain, and now you want little 'me' to show you, what you say you know100% sure can not be done.

This seems a bit of an impossible task, correct?

Also, it appears that you did not see or not comprehend the actual words I wrote. Did I say any thing about me being able to measure Consciousness?

By the way why does some thing HAVE TO be measured BEFORE they KNOW what that thing IS?
I thought little you said that Consciousness could be measured, not that you invented the method.
I never talked about measuring Consciousness nor said any thing about any invention nor any method nor any of that in relation to me.

I do not know what you are talking about or are suggesting here.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Ok so you are admitting that Consciousness cannot be measured yet.
No I am not admitting any thing like that at all here. I do not even know what you mean when you use the 'measured' word?

What do you mean by 'measured'?

You implied that what Consciousness is can not be known until It can be measured. I suggest that this is not true.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
As I said, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

You say this has already been accomplished. I say it has not.
You said, When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is.

I disagreed with this. I disagreed because I have a view of what Consciousness IS.

You also said, The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. I'm 100% sure of that.


I said, Contrary to your BELIEF, I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

I do NOT recall you ever saying, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

Is that EXACTLY what you wrote previously?

If yes, then will you direct us to this?

If you can not, then I NEVER disagreed with what you now claim above here. I disagreed with the ACTUAL WORDS that you used previously, and NOT your now claimed used words here. These are two very different things.

Now, Do you think or believe that you KNOW ALL knowledge, which is existing at any one moment?

If no, then why do you say that discovering what Consciousness is and the so called "hard problem" has not yet been accomplished? Is so called "science" not able to discover some thing without you ever knowing?

Or, is the Truth actually, what Consciousness is and the "hard problem" being solved could already be KNOWN and accomplished, but you are just not yet aware or savvy of this yet?

If, however, you do think or believe that you KNOW ALL existing knowledge at every moment, then HOW do you KNOW this?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
I'm just putting in a request for you to show me the proof that Science or any other discipline of knowledge or truth knows what Consciousness is.
Seems like a very long, drawn out, and roundabout way to get some thing.

Put any request in anywhere to any one you want to. But I found that if there is some thing you just want clarified, or known, then just asking for it can be a much better, simpler, quicker, and easier process.

For example, I want clarified and to know what you actually mean and are asking for when you use words like "to show you the 'proof' that 'Science' or any other 'discipline' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' knows what 'Consciousness' is. So, in order for me to have this clarified so that I KNOW what you are specifically actually requesting or are asking for, then I will ask for clarity through just a simple clarifying question, such like;
When you use the words in single quotation marks I just provided, then what do they mean to you?

You have ALREADY CLAIMED that The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. and, I'm 100% sure of that.

So, that rules out with 100% CERTAINTY that "science" knows what Consciousness is, unless of course you are WRONG. But you are 100% sure that you are NOT wrong, so "science" MUST NOT know what Consciousness is.

Now this only leaves other disciplines of 'knowledge' or 'truth' that could KNOW what Consciousness is. So, to you, what other 'disciplines' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' (whatever that actually means) would you 'accept' and/or 'trust'?

Once I KNOW this, then I just have to find out what 'proof' you would accept and/or trust from those 'disciplines', then your "request" could be fulfilled.

I can, however, just provide you with the view I have of what Consciousness is, which would have been given to you posts ago if that was asked for, but will you be OPEN to looking at and seeing my view of things? Could my views ever show you the proof that I know what Consciousness is?

If no, then okay.

If yes, then could you accept my view of what Consciousness is or do you NEED a "scientific" method that is able to 'measure' Consciousness first?

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Then either little you can explain it directly or you can provide a link that does. Thank You.
I do not understand the use of the 'little' word here, nor in your above sentence.

I can give you my view of what Consciousness is. But if you still believe what Consciousness is can not be known until Consciousness is measured, then I either need to know what you mean by 'measured' to express my view so that you are able to understand it better, or there is no use in me expressing my view on this at all. Either way I await your reply.

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Dontaskme
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Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:13 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm
What you are saying might all be true, but it requires a complete surrender of any kind of Logical or Scientific thinking.
Logic and intellectual reason pertains to the thinking mind which is the dream of separation, an appearance within consciousness.
When it comes to truth about the subject of consciousness, you can only relate to what is true for you as consciousness itself.

'' In the begining there was desire,
which was the first seed of mind.
Sages having meditated in their hearts,
have discovered by their wisdom
the subtle connection of the existent with the non-existent. ''



Consciousness is Everything and No thing.

SteveKlinko
Posts: 533
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Contact:

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:32 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:07 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:39 am


But you said that you are 100% sure the fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain, and now you want little 'me' to show you, what you say you know100% sure can not be done.

This seems a bit of an impossible task, correct?

Also, it appears that you did not see or not comprehend the actual words I wrote. Did I say any thing about me being able to measure Consciousness?

By the way why does some thing HAVE TO be measured BEFORE they KNOW what that thing IS?
I thought little you said that Consciousness could be measured, not that you invented the method.
I never talked about measuring Consciousness nor said any thing about any invention nor any method nor any of that in relation to me.

I do not know what you are talking about or are suggesting here.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Ok so you are admitting that Consciousness cannot be measured yet.
No I am not admitting any thing like that at all here. I do not even know what you mean when you use the 'measured' word?

What do you mean by 'measured'?

You implied that what Consciousness is can not be known until It can be measured. I suggest that this is not true.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
As I said, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

You say this has already been accomplished. I say it has not.
You said, When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is.

I disagreed with this. I disagreed because I have a view of what Consciousness IS.

You also said, The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. I'm 100% sure of that.


I said, Contrary to your BELIEF, I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

I do NOT recall you ever saying, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

Is that EXACTLY what you wrote previously?

If yes, then will you direct us to this?

If you can not, then I NEVER disagreed with what you now claim above here. I disagreed with the ACTUAL WORDS that you used previously, and NOT your now claimed used words here. These are two very different things.

Now, Do you think or believe that you KNOW ALL knowledge, which is existing at any one moment?

If no, then why do you say that discovering what Consciousness is and the so called "hard problem" has not yet been accomplished? Is so called "science" not able to discover some thing without you ever knowing?

Or, is the Truth actually, what Consciousness is and the "hard problem" being solved could already be KNOWN and accomplished, but you are just not yet aware or savvy of this yet?

If, however, you do think or believe that you KNOW ALL existing knowledge at every moment, then HOW do you KNOW this?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
I'm just putting in a request for you to show me the proof that Science or any other discipline of knowledge or truth knows what Consciousness is.
Seems like a very long, drawn out, and roundabout way to get some thing.

Put any request in anywhere to any one you want to. But I found that if there is some thing you just want clarified, or known, then just asking for it can be a much better, simpler, quicker, and easier process.

For example, I want clarified and to know what you actually mean and are asking for when you use words like "to show you the 'proof' that 'Science' or any other 'discipline' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' knows what 'Consciousness' is. So, in order for me to have this clarified so that I KNOW what you are specifically actually requesting or are asking for, then I will ask for clarity through just a simple clarifying question, such like;
When you use the words in single quotation marks I just provided, then what do they mean to you?

You have ALREADY CLAIMED that The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. and, I'm 100% sure of that.

So, that rules out with 100% CERTAINTY that "science" knows what Consciousness is, unless of course you are WRONG. But you are 100% sure that you are NOT wrong, so "science" MUST NOT know what Consciousness is.

Now this only leaves other disciplines of 'knowledge' or 'truth' that could KNOW what Consciousness is. So, to you, what other 'disciplines' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' (whatever that actually means) would you 'accept' and/or 'trust'?

Once I KNOW this, then I just have to find out what 'proof' you would accept and/or trust from those 'disciplines', then your "request" could be fulfilled.

I can, however, just provide you with the view I have of what Consciousness is, which would have been given to you posts ago if that was asked for, but will you be OPEN to looking at and seeing my view of things? Could my views ever show you the proof that I know what Consciousness is?

If no, then okay.

If yes, then could you accept my view of what Consciousness is or do you NEED a "scientific" method that is able to 'measure' Consciousness first?

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Then either little you can explain it directly or you can provide a link that does. Thank You.
I do not understand the use of the 'little' word here, nor in your above sentence.

I can give you my view of what Consciousness is. But if you still believe what Consciousness is can not be known until Consciousness is measured, then I either need to know what you mean by 'measured' to express my view so that you are able to understand it better, or there is no use in me expressing my view on this at all. Either way I await your reply.
You said that you know what Consciousness is and I asked you simply to explain to me what you think Consciousness is. Instead of an Explanation you reply with diversionary word games. I'm out. Bye. (Unless you can reply with an answer to what Consciousness is)

SteveKlinko
Posts: 533
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Contact:

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:40 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:13 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:56 pm
What you are saying might all be true, but it requires a complete surrender of any kind of Logical or Scientific thinking.
Logic and intellectual reason pertains to the thinking mind which is the dream of separation, an appearance within consciousness.
When it comes to truth about the subject of consciousness, you can only relate to what is true for you as consciousness itself.

'' In the begining there was desire,
which was the first seed of mind.
Sages having meditated in their hearts,
have discovered by their wisdom
the subtle connection of the existent with the non-existent. ''



Consciousness is Everything and No thing.
I agree. But Science might be able to deal with Consciousness someday if it would only keep a more open Mind.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:11 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:32 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:07 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm

I thought little you said that Consciousness could be measured, not that you invented the method.
I never talked about measuring Consciousness nor said any thing about any invention nor any method nor any of that in relation to me.

I do not know what you are talking about or are suggesting here.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Ok so you are admitting that Consciousness cannot be measured yet.
No I am not admitting any thing like that at all here. I do not even know what you mean when you use the 'measured' word?

What do you mean by 'measured'?

You implied that what Consciousness is can not be known until It can be measured. I suggest that this is not true.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
As I said, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

You say this has already been accomplished. I say it has not.
You said, When I say that Consciousness cannot be measured it implies that nobody knows what Consciousness is.

I disagreed with this. I disagreed because I have a view of what Consciousness IS.

You also said, The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. I'm 100% sure of that.


I said, Contrary to your BELIEF, I KNOW what happens to Consciousness when a human brain stops functioning, and, I KNOW how Consciousness is related to the brain.

I do NOT recall you ever saying, when Science is able to measure Consciousness then Science will have discovered what Consciousness is and the Hard Problem will be solved.

Is that EXACTLY what you wrote previously?

If yes, then will you direct us to this?

If you can not, then I NEVER disagreed with what you now claim above here. I disagreed with the ACTUAL WORDS that you used previously, and NOT your now claimed used words here. These are two very different things.

Now, Do you think or believe that you KNOW ALL knowledge, which is existing at any one moment?

If no, then why do you say that discovering what Consciousness is and the so called "hard problem" has not yet been accomplished? Is so called "science" not able to discover some thing without you ever knowing?

Or, is the Truth actually, what Consciousness is and the "hard problem" being solved could already be KNOWN and accomplished, but you are just not yet aware or savvy of this yet?

If, however, you do think or believe that you KNOW ALL existing knowledge at every moment, then HOW do you KNOW this?
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
I'm just putting in a request for you to show me the proof that Science or any other discipline of knowledge or truth knows what Consciousness is.
Seems like a very long, drawn out, and roundabout way to get some thing.

Put any request in anywhere to any one you want to. But I found that if there is some thing you just want clarified, or known, then just asking for it can be a much better, simpler, quicker, and easier process.

For example, I want clarified and to know what you actually mean and are asking for when you use words like "to show you the 'proof' that 'Science' or any other 'discipline' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' knows what 'Consciousness' is. So, in order for me to have this clarified so that I KNOW what you are specifically actually requesting or are asking for, then I will ask for clarity through just a simple clarifying question, such like;
When you use the words in single quotation marks I just provided, then what do they mean to you?

You have ALREADY CLAIMED that The fact that Consciousness itself cannot be measured yet means that no Scientific experiment ever conducted could show if it is a connection to the Brain or if it is inherent in the Brain. and, I'm 100% sure of that.

So, that rules out with 100% CERTAINTY that "science" knows what Consciousness is, unless of course you are WRONG. But you are 100% sure that you are NOT wrong, so "science" MUST NOT know what Consciousness is.

Now this only leaves other disciplines of 'knowledge' or 'truth' that could KNOW what Consciousness is. So, to you, what other 'disciplines' of 'knowledge' or 'truth' (whatever that actually means) would you 'accept' and/or 'trust'?

Once I KNOW this, then I just have to find out what 'proof' you would accept and/or trust from those 'disciplines', then your "request" could be fulfilled.

I can, however, just provide you with the view I have of what Consciousness is, which would have been given to you posts ago if that was asked for, but will you be OPEN to looking at and seeing my view of things? Could my views ever show you the proof that I know what Consciousness is?

If no, then okay.

If yes, then could you accept my view of what Consciousness is or do you NEED a "scientific" method that is able to 'measure' Consciousness first?

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Then either little you can explain it directly or you can provide a link that does. Thank You.
I do not understand the use of the 'little' word here, nor in your above sentence.

I can give you my view of what Consciousness is. But if you still believe what Consciousness is can not be known until Consciousness is measured, then I either need to know what you mean by 'measured' to express my view so that you are able to understand it better, or there is no use in me expressing my view on this at all. Either way I await your reply.
You said that you know what Consciousness is and I asked you simply to explain to me what you think Consciousness is. Instead of an Explanation you reply with diversionary word games. I'm out. Bye. (Unless you can reply with an answer to what Consciousness is)
Talk about diversionary tactics AND lies. SHOW where you asked me simply to explain to you what I think Consciousness is?

Consciousness IS thee Awareness of ALL things, above and beyond just what 'you', human beings, think, believe, and see.

For example, Consciousness is the Awareness to find and SEE all faults and failings in what 'you', human beings, see and say. Just like what I have done and exposed here.

To 'measure' Consciousness, thee Awareness in one, is to find and SEE fault and correctness, right and wrong, truth and falsehoods in the words and writings of each "other", "ourselves".

Find the fault, the wrong, and falsehoods in what I say and expose them, so that 'we', readers, can measure and see the amount of Consciousness that is able to get through and past the writings under the label of "steveklinko".

SteveKlinko
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:25 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:11 pm
Talk about diversionary tactics AND lies. SHOW where you asked me simply to explain to you what I think Consciousness is?

Consciousness IS thee Awareness of ALL things, above and beyond just what 'you', human beings, think, believe, and see.

For example, Consciousness is the Awareness to find and SEE all faults and failings in what 'you', human beings, see and say. Just like what I have done and exposed here.

To 'measure' Consciousness, thee Awareness in one, is to find and SEE fault and correctness, right and wrong, truth and falsehoods in the words and writings of each "other", "ourselves".

Find the fault, the wrong, and falsehoods in what I say and expose them, so that 'we', readers, can measure and see the amount of Consciousness that is able to get through and past the writings under the label of "steveklinko".
Thank you for the Explanation. So how does your Explanation eliminate the Hard Problem of Consciousness?

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:07 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
To Know that Consciousness cannot be Known is to Know something about Consciousness.
Consciousness is a concept KNOWN. To know a concept, to know a KNOWN, you first have to BE.
To BE or BEING is just another word for consciousness which is the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not depend on a concept to BE...consciousness is primary and fundamental. On the other hand a concept depends on consciousness to be KNOWN.

Consciousness does not claim or take the position of the concept it knows. A 'person' is a known concept of the formless.
A 'person' at the moment of when this is written is, by most, is just an assumed concept, (of whatever), to be true.

Not until the concept/definition of a 'person' fits together PERFECTLY with EVERY other concept/definition of EVERY other word, will the True concept/definition of a 'person' be KNOWN to be true. Along with ALL the other concepts/definitions, which will also be KNOWN to be True, and not just assumed or believed to be true.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
The concept known knows nothing of it's existence because it doesn't have an existence apart from the consciousness in which is it KNOWN.
Does "the concept known knows nothing" really NEED to be re-repeated over and over?

Is there ANY one at all that would even actually disagree with this well KNOWN OBVIOUS FACT anyway?

If there is, then bring them forward, and let them speak.

Also, there is OBVIOUSLY physical things moving about in shape and form, so obviously they have an existence. Therefore, if the concept of some thing is that it is a physical thing with shape and form, then it could be said that that concept DOES have existence. Or, do you mean some thing else when you say that a concept does not have existence apart from the Consciousness in which it is KNOWN? Are you 'trying to' say that THE CONCEPT, itself, which is KNOWN by Consciousness, Itself, does not have existence other than a KNOWN concept?

Because OBVIOUSLY a 'concept', itself, does NOT exist as visible physical thing, BUT, just as obvious is the FACT that there is a visible physical thing, in the shape and form of some thing, which has become THE CONCEPT.

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
A concept cannot know anything because A CONCEPT is already known by consciousness.
I think what might be found is a concept can not know any thing just simply because of what a concept IS.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
There is no separation or split between knower and known.
There is obviously NO actual separation nor split between the One and only Thing, but, just as obvious is there is a separation and split between what is
separated and split between 'things'. The 's' on the end of 'thing' means that human beings have separated and split the One and only Thing into separate differently split things (with an s).

Just like 'you' have separated and split the 'knower' from the 'known'. 'you', "yourself", here have made two 'things', from the One and only 'Thing'. 'you' have not done this with some magical power but just by definitions, which form concepts. This is done because this is how 'you', human beings, can more easily make sense of and understand the One and only Thing, Itself.

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
There is no other knower/knowing apart from consciousness itself, you are that.
I have already explained to 'you' that the word 'you' instantly conjures up the idea of "another". Therefore, every time the 'you' word is used 'you' are defeating and refuting the actual message that 'you' are 'trying' your hardest to get across.

I have already also explained a much better and clearer, more easier and much simpler word that actually works and fits PERFECTLY to make ALL-OF-THIS FULLY understood.

'you', however, can continue on the way 'you' are. But if that way has NOT worked hitherto, then surely I do not need to say any more.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
Consciousness does not need a concept in order to BE
Obviously NOT. The One and only True Thing does NOT need absolutely ANY thing in order to BE what 'It' IS.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
- but a concept needs a consciousness to be known, consciousness is the only knowing there is.
And, Consciousness also NEEDED some thing to BE-come Aware, and to BE Aware that It is the only KNOWING there IS.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
The only reason consciousness which is formless becomes known to itself is when it artificially takes on the shape of it's own known concept, pretending to be that in the form of ''otherness'' albeit illusory, since the concept is no thing other than the formless appearing as an illusory form.
This is a PRIME EXAMPLE of where ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS 'try to' take over from the KNOWING Consciousness, and what Consciousness is NOT starts BELIEVING that it "KNOWS" better than what Consciousness, Itself KNOWS.

Tell us "dontaskme", how come 'you' supposedly "KNOW" more than Consciousness, Itself, KNOWS?
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
I cannot make any more clearer than that.
And 'you' were not doing to badly, until you completely 'muddied the waters' by adding your completely OWN distorted BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS into the mix here.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm
You must Know something about that unknowable Consciousness. How do you come to Know that Consciousness cannot be Known?
Consciousness cannot be known by what conciousness knows, aka a concept. Consciousness is the only knowing.

See above.


.

So, Consciousness, Itself CAN or COULD KNOW Consciousness, correct?

And, it goes without saying or questioning that A CONCEPT, or what Consciousness, Itself KNOWS, can NOT know Consciousness NOR any thing else. This, as I explained earlier, is BECAUSE of the actual make up of what A CONCEPT, itself, IS.

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