The 'thee' just being thy True Self, Me.
The human 'person' is the one stuck in the darkness, which is not hidden at all from 'Me', thee, True Self.
The 'thee' just being thy True Self, Me.
Then why cannot you keep repeating those words until they are understoodAge wrote:
It seems that no matter how many times I say and use the words
If you do NOT assume any thing and do NOT believe any thing then you can and will be
far more open and IF you are completely OPEN then you can and will SEE the Truth of things
They just seem to BE MISSED and / or NOT UNDERSTOOD
Talk about a waste of (mental) energy.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:33 pmThen why cannot you keep repeating those words until they are understoodAge wrote:
It seems that no matter how many times I say and use the words
If you do NOT assume any thing and do NOT believe any thing then you can and will be
far more open and IF you are completely OPEN then you can and will SEE the Truth of things
They just seem to BE MISSED and / or NOT UNDERSTOOD
WHY I do NOT just do that is because 'you' are living PROOF that that way just does NOT work.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:33 pmThere is no reason as to why you cannot do this so why not just do that then
I already do understand what you have repeated many times already even though you think that your wordsAge wrote:
If just repeating things over and over would mean that it gets understood then surely by now you would have
understood what I have repeated so many times already
So, why then do you continue to use the wrong and incorrect term "your mind" when obviously no such thing exists?surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:30 pmI already do understand what you have repeated many times already even though you think that your wordsAge wrote:
If just repeating things over and over would mean that it gets understood then surely by now you would have
understood what I have repeated so many times already
are being misunderstood or misinterpreted but I cannot speak for how others understand or interpret them
Nothing to do with my desire, you said we can't move on until we understand what was said. I was just checking if you'd reached that understanding and as such we could move on.Dontaskme wrote:Ok, we can move on if that is your desire. ...
Not really, what separates you and me and us from an external world is being a body. Have you not noticed all the objects you cannot pass through and that are separate from you? This is one of the first things that we learn as a babies, the world is not us.I can't see how there can be a separate mind - as I see it, the use of words are the only way the idea of any separation becomes apparent. So it is knowledge itself that appears to separate you there from me here... ok? ...
If there was nothing then we couldn't label it or even assign labels. It is true that language appears to play a large part in creating the idea of a self or a mind but it is not the case that this is the mind as "mind" is just the word we use to name the experience of being a self aware or self-conscious being.And then if you think about it closely, the words are appearing out of nothingness, and we label this nothingness THE MIND
So in truth, there is no MIND, except the conception of it via the label no thing is placing on it. ...
Experience isn't what's happening to you it's how you deal with what's happened to you. 'Mind' isn't just language as if it was Helen Keller would not have been able to do what she did and what is prior to the self of language is the being of a body with senses, memory and language in an external world, it is the ground for everything else that follows and it is no fiction that that is what you are.To be aware of having an experience is to KNOW and to be able to inform yourself of having the experience via knowing which is knowledge informing via words and language that we call the mind. But you already ARE prior to any knowledge of yourself, so in truth, the knowledge of yourself is a fiction. ...
It does not 'reappear' as it is unique and individual to each baby, there is no 'mind-stuff' out there waiting to incarnate in a new-born. No idea what you mean by 'imposed' unless you just mean that we learn the language spoken by our parents and peers?It reappears every time a new baby becomes aware of itself via a knowledge IMPOSED upon it. ...
You think this I think because you make the mistaken assumption that without language there'd be no 'mind' but this is wrong as thoughts do not necessarily have to be the internal voice. You keep appearing to think the 'mind' is a separate entity?There is no answer to the whys and hows..of what is mind really because like I said earlier, it's arising out of nothingness. ...
It doesn't arise from 'nothingness', it arises from being a body with senses, memory and language in an external world.I'm referring to knowledge in the sense of what is known, can that which arises from nothingness be anything more than just a pretense in the sense that what is known is a conceptual fact or fiction, believed to be real and true by the nothingness from which it all arises. ...
Personally I think it the usual half-arsed western interpretation of another culture's belief system.I'm sorry that this might appear to sound like total woo woo...but this is what nonduality is. This is the reality of the world of beingness.
Words are not 'frozen thought' think of them more as catalysts, they do not contain thoughts they invoke them in the other but they need not be the same complex of thoughts, for example, if I say "apple" to you I very much doubt we will have the same thought but we will both understand the meaning of the word. So I agree that due to this language can be divisive which is why words should be chosen carefully and more importantly responses should be listened to if we wish to connect.Dontaskme wrote:But to express a thought would require to put that thought into words, so in essence words are frozen thoughts appearing as symbol/image that we can all relate to. Language is the divider and the connecter both. ...
But they don't come out of 'nothingness'? They come from being a body with senses, memory and language in an external world communicating with it's fellows.Language is just sound heard as words with meaning, and sound appears out of nothingness. ...
This is a reification of 'nature', 'nature' is not attempting to communicate to itself there are just living creatures communicating with each other.There is all sorts of sounds coming from the jungle creatures as nature attempts to communicate to itself.
Nothing can't be known without making nothing something known. In knowing nothing I know something.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:20 amIf there was nothing then we couldn't label it or even assign labels.
It reappears as an imposition imposed upon not-knowing yes. A baby is born as pure object /identity free awareness. It then adopts an identity which is imposed upon it in the form of knowledge, or language aka a name, given to it by it's parent who they themselves have also gone through the same process ad-infinitum..and is why knowledge only informs the illusory nature of your apparent identity. This apparent identity is an appearance, and every time one is born, there is the reappearance of this fake identity believed to be real, when it isn't.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:20 am It does not 'reappear' as it is unique and individual to each baby, there is no 'mind-stuff' out there waiting to incarnate in a new-born. No idea what you mean by 'imposed' unless you just mean that we learn the language spoken by our parents and peers?
Nothing can't be known at all. Nothing just means a thing is not there but there is always something.Dontaskme wrote:Nothing can't be known without making nothing something known. ...
That you know nothing? You always know something and you can't know "nothing" as a thing.In knowing nothing I know something. ...
Really just gobbledygook unless you clarify what you mean by "knowing" and "nothing".So that which is known knows nothing. ...
What "ONE" awareness, what on earth do you mean by such statements?Something and nothing are the same ONE Awareness aware of itself as the other, as one and the same no thing. ...
Again, what do you mean by "awareness"? As for sure living things are 'aware' but it is not that there is an 'awareness' that is a thing distinct from living things.The label nothing / no thing is just another label for awareness that is every living being.
Babies are very aware of their body.Dontaskme wrote:It reappears as an imposition imposed upon not-knowing yes. A baby is born as pure object /identity free awareness. ...
There is nothing illusory about being a body and it is the ground for our identity.It then adopts an identity which is imposed upon it in the form of knowledge, or language aka a name, given to it by it's parent who they themselves have also gone through the same process ad-infinitum..and is why knowledge only informs the illusory nature of your apparent identity. ...
Sheer and utter nonsense and actually contradicted by your words, "one is born".This apparent identity is an appearance, and every time one is born, there is the reappearance of this fake identity believed to be real, when it isn't. ...
The 'mind' in the sense of internal voice is not developed until later but thoughts in the sense of the representations from perception retrieved via memory are before language. You appear insistent upon this idea that thinking in the sense of the internal voice, or language if you prefer, is what thought is, it isn't, although it is useful as a shorthand and guide for thought it is not the same.For only the mind is born, not YOU..mind being the label.
Awareness is who you are, who I am, who she is, who he is, who they are, and who my cat is...Awareness is the immediate state prior to any label imposed upon it. In fact every thing that can be thought about is AWARENESS objectifying itself as and through it's own concepts without ever being that concept. Awareness can never experience itself as the concept it knows, for the concept it knows, knows nothing of it's existence because awareness is the only knowing there is.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:02 pmWhat "ONE" awareness, what on earth do you mean by such statements?
It is not obvious to me that it does not exist but I fully understand from your perspective why you do not think it existsAge wrote:So why then do you continue to use the wrong and incorrect term your mind when obviously no such thing existssurreptitious57 wrote:
I already do understand what you have repeated many times already even though you think that your words
are being misunderstood or misinterpreted but I cannot speak for how others understand or interpret them
Therefore, you do NOT FULLY understand what I am saying.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 pmIt is not obvious to me that it does not existAge wrote:So why then do you continue to use the wrong and incorrect term your mind when obviously no such thing existssurreptitious57 wrote:
I already do understand what you have repeated many times already even though you think that your words
are being misunderstood or misinterpreted but I cannot speak for how others understand or interpret them
"do not think it exits" is another one of those terminologies that just does not work.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 pm but I fully understand from your perspective why you do not think it exists
I do NOT see how this could be possible. But it might be. Do you have any knowledge of exactly HOW Consciousness causes a physical brain to come into existence?surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 pmIt is possible that Consciousness causes brains rather than brains cause consciousness and so I am open to the possibility
Okay.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:04 pmNow I am not absolute about this but less there is evidence for other positions then I cannot in principle fully accept any of them
No I do not but I am simply referencing it as an alternative to the materialist perspective that consciousness can only exist within a brainAge wrote:
Do you have any knowledge of exactly HOW Consciousness causes a physical brain to come into existence