Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am
Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:21 am
Well comparing what you are led to believe happens to 'you', so called "theists", after your own personal lives here in this life, to what actually happens here, then I am extremely surprised you have not all committed suicide by now.
You all must have some instinctual KNOWING that what you all personally BELIEVE is true is in fact NOT true at all.
No,
What do you mean "No".
How can you dispute what is True?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amthat's my point:knowing God does not merely make you long for eternity
I KNOW that God does not merely make you long for eternity. I did NOT say any thing opposing this.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am-- though it does do that.
Knowing God, and not just believing in God, actually stops all longing, all together.
Believing things makes you long for things.
You long for an everlasting life, after, what you call, "die" in this life. This is because you BELIEVE things to be true, which WILL BE SHOWN to be completely untrue, and very misleading, which is WHY I have been leading to the FACT that 'you', adult human beings, do NOT even know that you are lying to "your own selves".
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am Rather, it makes you attentive to the meaning of things right here and now, as well.
And if you were Truly Attentive, Truly Conscious, and or Truly Aware, then you would already KNOW the meaning of things right here and now, including the meaning of Life, Itself, which would then lead you onto realizing that this is the ONLY Life, and there is NO so called "after-life" from the interpretation, which you have been taught and BELIEVE is true.
If, as you say, you are ATTENTIVE to the meaning of things, then what is the unambiguous, irrefutable Answer the very simple clarifying question; What is the meaning of Life?
Here is a hint, that Answer is very easy to discover and KNOW, that is; once you KNOW the formula needed for knowing how to answer all of these meaningful questions, properly and correct.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am You stop seeing the world as disposable or as a resource for your self-focused projects, and start seeing your role within a larger plan for the world.
So, why then do you keep just using up the resources and just disposing of them in the polluting ways that you are doing right now, in the days of when this is written, just for your own personal self-focused "projects", which is; in very simple, more Honest terms, is just; your greed?
Obviously, as an adult, you are a greedy human being, who, through your behaviors, is causing and allowing the death of and the dying of "other" people and of, literally, the 'world', itself, earth.
Now, if you do not want to look at this fact, then remember that this ability to lie to one's self is what this topic is all about.
So now, you are alleging that you have started seeing your role within a larger plan for the world, so then my very simple clarifying questions posed to you now will be;
So what is "your role" within the larger plan for the world?
And, is that role any different than any one "else's" is?
What is the actual "larger plan" for the world?
Who/what devised this plan, and where is it so that we can all SEE it?
Why would there be a "larger plan" for this world, if after all, you and the "world" are just going to "die" and live for eternity somewhere else, either in peace or not?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am So it makes all the sense in the world to stay in the world, since you have it only once and for a little time, and here, you have work to do that has lasting consequences: so it doesn't make sense to hurry off it.
Sure, it makes all the sense to stay in this one and ONLY Life, since the 'you' is only here for a very short time, and it makes sense to do what is Right because of the lasting consequences that has on this one and ONLY eternal Life. But, what you have said here does NOT logically follow on from what you BELIEVE is true.
Obviously, if what you BELIEVED was true, then there is NO use doing any thing in this what you call "world". What you have just said here is actually completely counters what you BELIEVE is true, and which you are 'trying so hard' to argue and fight for. What you have said here comes from the internal KNOWING within, which will ALWAYS OVERRIDE the lies and deception that you human beings 'try' and tell yourselves is true.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amI'm not telling you you have to believe that's how it is.
Considering how many times I have informed you that I neither believe nor disbelieve any thing, then it would appear to be a very stupid thing to do if you were even contemplating telling ME to believe this or any thing else, especially considering the very reasons WHY I do NOT believe any thing at all.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am But I am saying there are good Theistic reasons for not interpreting life as a waste and dispatching yourself.
So, what are they?
What is one good reason why a human being known as a "theist" would want to stay in a place that can be hell at times, especially considering when they could be living in heaven for eternity?
There must be some underlying reason WHY you choose to stay HERE?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:41 pm What you see instead is that Theists tend to be extremely active in investing in the welfare of this place, and very earnest about their actions right now.
But this is an absolute LIE that I SEE 'you', adults, telling "yourselves". I do NOT see what you BELIEVE I see.
"You" adults?
What is the question mark here for? Are you asking some sort of question?
Is your BELIEF of some thing being already true overriding your actual ability to remain completely OPEN and CURIOS, and just ask me a simple clarifying question?
The Answer to my question posed to you here just now is obvious, but from the human being perspective there is just to much subtlety in all of this for you to be able to yet see it.
Even though the Truest desire in that human being is to be curious and wanting and desiring to learn more and become wiser, you can not just ask a simple clarifying question properly. This is for two reasons;
Your learned and build up emotions of embarrassment and/or fear of looking 'stupid' overrides the REAL Self to come out.
As well as, you BELIEF that you already KNOW what the truth is anyway
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amI can't say whether you see it or not.
You do NOT have to say any thing. I have already expressed thee Truth here.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amI can only tell you that's how it is in reality, and that others see what (perhaps) you do not yet see.
If you really BELIEVE that you KNOW what 'Reality' IS, then here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of a human being lying to "them self" without an absolutely clue that this is what they are actually doing.
Also, you claim that 'you' and "others"
'see how reality is', yet here 'you' and "them" are that if I asked any of 'you'
what IS Reality, actually? It is then 'you', human beings, who are the ones who end up disagreeing, disputing, and in conflict with one "another". Why is this, if supposedly as you say 'you' and "them" see reality for how it is?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amWhat I see is, you adults investing in NOT the welfare of this place, but in the "welfare" of your own selves and a select few "other" selves. What I see you adult human beings doing is for you and a select few only.
I'm not proposing to speak for all "adults."
But your very last sentence you were proposing to speak for (all?) adults. Just go back and read the way you write, and this can be CLEARLY SEEN.
You even made the claim that 'you' and "them" see things for how they really are. You are so strong in your BELIEVE that what you see is reality and that that is how 'you' AND "them" see things, that you will NOT even believe that I do NOT see things that way at all. So, really you were proposing in a very strong way to speak for (all?) adults AND about how 'reality' really IS.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am Some are living for one thing, and some for another.
But you have all grown up learning to live just one's self and a tiny select few "other selves".
This can be clearly observed and SEEN every day, in the days of when this is being written.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am Like children, some are selfish and some are more kind.
Another instant adult human being reaction is now being SHOWN here. When thee Truth is being exposed an adult human being will quickly turn things around so that they, themselves, are not being looked at, and in this example the attention is turned onto 'children', as though they are somehow to blame for this. Or, because they do some thing, then this means we are not responsible or not as responsible for things. This gets turned onto children because children are the ones who can not defend them selves. Even if and when they try to speak up for themselves, they are instantly dismissed and/or "put in their place", as you adults would say.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am So you'll note I did not say that "adults" are earnest, or that "adults" are investing in this world. Many, perhaps most, "adults" are not. But your question was not about "adults" but about "Theists."
So, either we can stay on the topic of "theists", "adults", or absolutely any one "else". I really do NOT care which ones you want to choose to LOOK AT, instead of your own "self", I am OPEN to ALL or ANY.
Any way you choose I KNOW what the outcome will be anyway.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am And in specific, I answered on behalf of Christians...not even speaking of all Theists.
Was the word "christian" used in ANY of my writings in this thread, let alone in the actual clarifying questions I posed to you?
If yes, then where.
If no, then WHY answer on behalf of 'you' so labelled "christians"?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amThe world is not a very nice place, in some ways.
The sole and ONLY reason WHY this is so is because 'you' adult human beings have made it this way.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amAnd for Atheists, that's got to be a terminal realization. There's no cure for evil in Atheism.
Yes there IS, and it is the SAME cure for evil in ALL of you adult human beings.
Besides that, labeling, by separating, ALL human beings into some sort of only imagined groups, like "atheism", "theism", et cetera is a form of 'evil' in and of itself. But we are long way off from looking at and delving into this FACT and Truth.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am For Atheism, evil is just another way-things-are, and things that "just are" are beyond real remedy.
The cure is just change the thinking. Life, and living, REALLY is just this simple and easy.
Neither in this life, nor in the next (which Atheists do not believe in anyway) can the fact of evil be dealt with, or this world saved from itself.[/quote]
Just ANOTHER BELIEF, which one human being personally BELIEVES is the absolute truth.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amSo get mad at God, if you think you have reason to; and argue with Him if you must.
Why would any one get mad at God? And why would any one 'try' and turn any thing onto God? Adults have this very bad habit of NOT wanting to LOOK AT themselves and 'trying to' turn this LOOKING onto some thing else, like children, God, or any thing else but their own selves. Just like what happened in the story of two adult human beings, one named adam and one named eve.
Absolutely EVERY thing God does is for your own good. It is what 'you', adult human beings, which is NOT what is for your own good.
I can NOT argue with some thing that does NOT exist. There is NO God that is a "him". And the God that exists I am always 'arguing' WITH anyway. That is when the word 'argue' is being defined NOT in the context that you are taking it here to mean, but in the other meaning and context.
i am logically reasoning with God about HOW to express things in a way, which you, human beings, WILL UNDERSTAND, FULLY. Unfortunately, though, this little insignificant human being, does NOT listen FULLY, and so does express things WRONGLY, at times.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 am But it won't help to appeal to Atheism.
I NEVER thought it would help appealing to "atheism", and I NEVER would even contemplate appealing to "atheism", "theism", nor ANY other "ism", nor in fact any thing else also.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amAtheism's not listening and doesn't care. It's not even capable of caring. It has no ears.
Obviously. The only things that are known to have ears are 'you' animals.
And the ONLY one's who are able to 'listen' to God or thy True Self, is 'you' human animals.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amAs I said previously 'you', adult human beings,
So again, I ask: how old are you? Sincere question.
Answering that would detract from the points I am making, which one IS; instead of ASSUMING some thing when I use the words " 'you', adult human beings ", and then posing a question BASED on that ASSUMPTION only, why do you NOT just remain completely Truly OPEN, and then ask a Truly inquisitive clarifying question, such like; What do you actually mean when you use these words ...?
When I use the words, " 'you', adult human beings', this has absolutely NOTHING AT ALL to do with age, Me, nor 'you'.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:17 amIn fact I have observed the so called "theist" ones continually crying and begging not to die. So, why is this so?
You'll have to tell me more about this. I don't know what your experience is on this point, and it's not mine.
Obviously my experience on this point is NOT yours, and just about EVERY one of my experiences on just about EVERY point I am making is NOT yours.
Therefore, if the Truth be KNOWN, if you had REALLY wanted to KNOW what I have been REALLY saying on ALL of my points previously, then you would have written in this Truly BEAUTIFUL and Truly OPEN way previously.
Although you are NOT asking a Truly specific clarifying question, which would speed this whole process up absolutely considerably, at least you have now SHOWN that you are WONDERING.
Because I do NOT like to ASSUME absolutely any thing, as this behavior leads away from the actual Truth of things far too quickly, I would usually ask you to clarify what 'this' IS EXACTLY, which you say I HAVE TO tell you more about. But I will not, THIS TIME.
The absolute majority of adult human beings, and not just those ones with that incorrect label "theist", when they, or their so labeled "close ones", are faced with what is incorrectly labeled "death" and/or "dying", then those ones cry and beg for help not to "die". This can be done with the simple behavior of just going to a hospital to get help. In other words the vast majority of you will do ALL you can to stay alive, which I have alluded to is because you ALL KNOW that the actual Truth IS there is only One Universe, which is the One Place in which where absolutely EVERY thing is held within. Heaven and hell are NOT some other place some other where. They are just labels used to describe different 'ways of life', in this one and ONLY place we have labeled the 'Universe'.
From this it can then be logically followed where and why the labels the 'after-life', 'here-after, et cetera came to be, and what and how they exist in way that makes PERFECT SENSE for Everyone.