Do you? i think not. but welcome discussion.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
The problem then, of course, would be that your choice would not longer be a free decision.
why not? what is in the nature of my damned soul after death as an immortal but damned soul (after my death my soul is partially removed of freewill to repent and turn to your god?)
if so how and why?
per Hell - the place - if my soul is not lobotomized by your God, and i still have freewill to repent as an immortal spirit, is there something "special" about Hell - which is not so here on Earth - to prevent me from repenting, and accepting and being saved by your God?
clarify the nature of my post death soul, nature of the place of Hell for me to understand.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
You could hardly rationalize being without relationship to God if you knew what relationship to God was really like.
???????????
don't follow - other than you assume i do so in this life.
after finding myself still "alive" in Hell, i'll know you were right and i was wrong and repent!
will your God save me from Hell or let me burn forever in Hell as a Christian (formerly Athiest as a mortal).
asking you Sir.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
So then, you would HAVE to choose to believe the right thing -- you'd have no option. So you'd no longer be free to choose.
ok, so you are saying that in this life as mortal i never "saw god in my path" (if you see the bubba in front of you strike him down (same mentality but off topic, just thought came up - we can talk about this too if you like).
but in the next "life" (in Hell in my case/Heaven in yours) - upon seeing god then, "it don't count" for your God?
what does it say about your God if that is so? ;-(.
I personally hope when i find myself wrong about my atheism and in hell - I will repent (not out of self advantage - but out of humble self evidence - I was wrong and your God of Love exists)
and with a humble heart from the belly of Hell itself as a lost soul for the first time knowing your God and asking for his love and repreive, will give it to me?
- will your god refuse me his love, just because i saw and knew Him from Hell rather than in my former live while on Earth?
if yes - He will refuse my salvation from Hell.
why so?
how is this Just or the actions of the Loving God?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
And that's the great thing about Earth right now:
"now" is an infinately small irrelvancy to the overal timeline of immoral souls.............so why "wall off" repentance of immortal souls when said souls live such a small time here on earth compared to Hell/Heaven?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
there is enough evidence of the existence of God for a rational person to believe in Him
sadly, apearently not, i am quite rational BTW.
If your assurtion were true we would all be Christians, rather than 1/2 of, and the rest Athiests (1/5-percent globally), 1/4 Muslim, 1/5 Hindu/etc....
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
-- but not
so much evidence that people have no choice about whether they do or not. So we can be genuinely free in our choice,
So you God only show "just enough" for the "elect" to see him, and the rest be damned.
i.e so since i do not see him in from of me, i'm fucked. and your God have me Freewill in his life to see him it i had "faith" but not enough freewill to see him in front of me in the street.
so not one of the elect, and when i'm dead and in Hell and then see him in front of me, he will ignore my repentance (and to you somehow my repentance from Hell upon seeing your God is no longer Freewill).
ok whatever.
I'm fucked then (on Earth and in Hell).
so be it.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
and own what we decide.
you sound like a Gnostic, the elect, some born for salvation others like me born to burn.
i never think of decisions as fixated forever without changing of mind.
i guess you do.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
That chance will not be around forever, though.
why not?
if man has an immortal soul, what is the purpose of having his action while on earth set in concrete - fixed upon his death.
of what good is an immortal soul if one has a god remove his freewill to thinks and decide from Hell/Heaven for the eons after?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
or does your god remove my ability to repent from Hell (turn me into a robot upon death).
If any such thing were to happen, it would be as a result of your free choice.
non-sequitor.
as said before, assuming man has a soul and it is immortal, then its life while on Earth is irrelivent per the timeline of immortality, so why the fuck would any actions of said immortal soul on the earth have any relivence per its overall "live" as a spirit with freewill?
it would not.
it would have as much relivance as your actions as a three yrs old (assuming you are much older) - and noting infinity ---------my allusion is infinity lacking even moreso!
more like what you did as a 3 week old embrio.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
it is you who is refusing Freewill of the dead
I'm not doing anything of the kind, actually.
with respect i think you are.
or more aptly not thought about it, and when replying to me fall about on old chestnuts.
lol.
think about the issue (it is a moral one).
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
I'm just telling you what the Word of God says will be the case. .
it says too little sadly, and sadly Apocalypse of Peter was not placed in the canon, which had offered a little more upon the matter.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
We don't know what the reason for the obduracy of the lost is, or what their state of mind is.
See above about the 1/2, 1/5, etc religions................yet we are all human beings
think about that with a clear mind - as humble servant of your God - think of me (and the other 1/2 of earth damned to Hell for not seeing/knowing your God in this life on Earth) as you.
if you can see me as you, and not "the other" then maybe you can see the folly of assuming we can see your self evident God (or vise versa if you do not see us as you do can see how we cannot see your self evident God).
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
We're not really told; and I don't suppose it matters much anymore..
It matters more than anything else!!!!!!
man has/is an immortal soul!!!!!!!!!!!!! to have a soul tortured forever for finite sins commited in a short timespan and to ingore the rest of the timeline of that soul 99.99999999999999!!!!!!!! and to refuse nor ponder the ability of said lost immortal soul to find salvation and to know your God/vs buring in Hell FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
IS a CORE MORAL quandry - your faith literally ignores! as do you!
you are a moral man! so why have you not given this thought!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!??!!?!?!
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
What does matter is our free choice right now.
Why "right now" so important if man has an immortal soul?
let me ask you this,
why does your God waste an immortal soul if all He cares about are the actions of said souls while on Earth a few short years?
if all He cares about are our actions here on Earth why the fuck does he give us etenity in Heaven and Hell afterward with noting our actions (repentance/sins) from that place?
whats the point in giving us immortal souls?
no point.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 am
Then choose better. That's simple.
I'll choose from Hell.
will your God hear me?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
I think you will not.
if my Atheism is right i will not, but if you are right, then i will "find God" upon "Waking up in Hell"
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
But I hope you never try to find out by that route.
why not so?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
I wish better for you.
i wish better of your God - that his mercy is higher than your conception of.
and that he will save me upon my repentence from Hell.
I would like your God to take my choice/s seriously as a mortal on earth, and as a dead man in Heaven or Hell.
That, I'm afraid, you cannot have.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
I do not know what your choice in Hell will be. Neither do you.
I know you assume i have a soul and freewill.
i know you believe in a just god.
so why would your god castrate my soul upon death to deny me knowing him from Hell?
your Jesus preached to those in hell for the 3 days he was dead (peter 2).
so why would he not go down to hell later to preach to the rest of us that died after 0.00000001 AD?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
So speculation will not help us here.
my concern is justice.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
What is very clear is that we have an opportunity NOW to decide what happens. My advice is to make a good choice.
agian your view is narrow - man had an imortal soul (per your religion) - so this life is like a dead leaf (Ecceziacies(sp) has this viewpoint.
big picture is - souls are immortal, souls that happen to be here now on Earth and thier actions are a very immertial picture of the bigger picture/time line.
assuming i have a soul and it is immortal.
of course i'm an athiest and think when i die my "soul" will too.
but you as a Christian should have my view of eternity and immortal souls.
you really should.
it is a moral question as well as transendental
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm
Now, when you've really made your choice, you can't blame Him for confirming it for you. It was your choice in the first place. He doesn't owe you to reverse a bad choice. What we all owe, when we make a choice, is to live with its natural consequences. If we tell God, "I want nothing to do with You," then we can't complain when we get that...no matter how long it lasts. It was our choice.
as stated many times. i'm not into the blaime game, and strive to be Humble, which is a virtue BTW.