A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:49 am

Age wrote:
Has thought actually been PROVEN to be non physical YET back in those days when this is written
Thought is electrochemical signals in the brain and those signals are physical so thought must by default also be physical
Even though it is classed as mental and mental is classed as non physical but electrochemical signals are not non physical

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am

Age wrote:
Has thought actually been PROVEN to be non physical YET back in those days when this is written
When you say back in those days when this is written why use both the past and present tense in the same sentence
This is confusing so can you explain what you mean - did you mean to say back in those days when this was written
That would make more sense but it would also mean that you were writing from a future perspective - so is this so
Can you be as precise as possible with your clarifying answer so that I can fully understand exactly what you mean

SteveKlinko
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:30 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:20 pm
"Out There" is just a figurative reference. I suspect that some sort of Conscious Space exists. I arrived at this suspicion after many years of study and contemplation about Conscious Sensory Experience. It was a Logical Chain of thought that got me to that suspicion. But I have no idea what it could be, only that it must Exist for Consciousness to make any sense. It could be Nowhere or it could be Everywhere.

5G technology will become the Global Brain, a rapidly-becoming-self-aware-non-human-AI-entity we used to call the Internet.
Being ''out-there'' will be You / Consciousness literally walking through it's Y(our) own brain.

5G will also enable the Singularity, which will blur the lines between our bodies and this alien intelligence A.I. in which our biological bodies will be enmeshed or tethered, Matrix-style, and transformed into transhumans.

Transformers, robots in disguise.

.
5G does not have a Volition capability built in. Even if 5G is Conscious, it can only Watch, it will not be able to Do anything.

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:30 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:49 am
Age wrote:
Has thought actually been PROVEN to be non physical YET back in those days when this is written
Thought is electrochemical signals in the brain and those signals are physical so thought must by default also be physical
Even though it is classed as mental and mental is classed as non physical but electrochemical signals are not non physical
Okay, and just to make it CLEAR, This is, in the days of when this is written, an absolutely ALREADY PROVEN unambiguous AND irrefutable FACT?

Just to be even more CLEARER, the 'thought', itself, has been separated, from a body, and observed on its own, then the movements of electrons within 'thought' itself, was also observed, which were seen to move because of the chemical processes that made them move, correct?

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:50 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
Age wrote:
Has thought actually been PROVEN to be non physical YET back in those days when this is written
When you say back in those days when this is written why use both the past and present tense in the same sentence
Because 'you' are writing in the present tense, to 'you'. Whereas, 'I' and the 'readers' are seeing 'your' responses are from the past, tense.

This would obviously appear absurd AND contradictory, from a 'you' perspective. But ONCE who and what the 'you' and the 'I' are KNOWN, for sure, Trust Me when I say to 'I', and your future 'readers', UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY what is going on here now.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
This is confusing so can you explain what you mean - did you mean to say back in those days when this was written
Yes.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
That would make more sense
But that IS exactly what I did write.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
but it would also mean that you were writing from a future perspective -
Yes.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
so is this so
Yes, in a sense.

One HOW thee Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK is learned, then ALL-OF-THIS makes PERFECT SENSE, and IS ALSO PERFECTLY UNDERSTOOD.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:58 am
Can you be as precise as possible with your clarifying answer so that I can fully understand exactly what you mean
There is far more that needs to be learned and understood BEFORE I could provide a precise clarifying answer to make ALL-OF-THIS FULLY UNDERSTOOD, to 'you'.

But Honestly once 'you' are Truly OPEN and Honest, and seriously Want to change, for the better, and with a tiny bit of help and guidance, ALL-OF-THIS actually just FALLS into PLACE, and becomes KNOWN, almost instantaneously.

If fact, the supposed "new" found knowledge coming, actually brings with it A REALIZATION that 'this' knowledge was ALREADY KNOWN Knowledge, to thy True Self that is. That IS thee 'I' that is forever.

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:06 pm

Age wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thought is electrochemical signals in the brain and those signals are physical so thought must by default also be physical
Even though it is classed as mental and mental is classed as non physical but electrochemical signals are not non physical
This is in the days of when this is written an absolutely ALREADY PROVEN unambiguous AND irrefutable FACT

Just to be even more CLEARER the thought itself has been separated from a body and observed on its own then the movements
of electrons within thought itself was also observed which were seen to move because of the chemical processes that made them move
Yes it is a fact that thoughts are electrochemical signals in the brain as that is what actually causes neurons to fire
Electrochemical activity in the brain can be seen on an MRI scanner but cannot be separated from the brain as such

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm

Age wrote:
But ONCE who and what the you and the I are KNOWN for sure Trust Me when I say
to I and your future readers UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY what is going on here now
I think I know what you mean but as you will not explain it in any more detail I will not ask you to
I will leave it there unless or until it comes up again and to see if you are more forthcoming then

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:57 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:06 pm
Age wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thought is electrochemical signals in the brain and those signals are physical so thought must by default also be physical
Even though it is classed as mental and mental is classed as non physical but electrochemical signals are not non physical
This is in the days of when this is written an absolutely ALREADY PROVEN unambiguous AND irrefutable FACT

Just to be even more CLEARER the thought itself has been separated from a body and observed on its own then the movements
of electrons within thought itself was also observed which were seen to move because of the chemical processes that made them move
Yes it is a fact that thoughts are electrochemical signals in the brain as that is what actually causes neurons to fire
THIS can be read from countless of books. ALL copying off and from each other. ALL written from the perspective of I KNOW WHAT IS TRUE and RIGHT.

But what EXACTLY causes "neurons to fire"?

IF it is "electrochemical signals" that actually causes "neurons to fire", then HOW does this somehow relate to and conclude that 'thoughts' ARE 'electrochemical signals'?

Are there 'electrochemical signals' causing "neurons to fire' in the brains of newly born infant humans?

If yes, then what 'thoughts' are new born infant humans having exactly?

SEE, the trouble with 'you', adult human beings, 'you' observe some thing, and then quickly jump to some conclusion, without ever actually thinking things through, properly and thoroughly.

Just because there is "electrochemical signals" and/or "neurons firing" in the brain, then HOW EXACTLY do these things relate to 'thought' and 'thinking' itself, EXACTLY.

Jumping to the conclusion 'that 'those things' MUST BE 'thought' will NEVER help 'you' people to SEE thee actual Truth of things.

WHY can those things NOT be ANY of the 450 or more emotions, or just any sort of feeling, or just an instinctual drive to keep living, or just some other thing?

Why did they and why do they HAVE TO 'thinking', itself?

When a human being IS distinguishing each and EVERY 'thought' WHILE the brain is being observed, then this MIGHT HELP in PROVING that the actually "electrochemical process" and/or the "firing of neurons" is 'thought', itself. This, distinguishing between thought and emotion and telling what is occurring at each exact moment, WHILE the eloctrochemical activity is being observed, then this might also help in distinguishing much more. BUT, until then I will REMAIN OPEN.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:06 pm
Electrochemical activity in the brain can be seen on an MRI scanner
OBVIOUSLY, and SO WHAT?

This does NOT prove ANY thing at all, other than there IS, what is called, "electrochemical activity" being observed.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:06 pm
but cannot be separated from the brain as such
What IS being OBSERVED IS "electrochemical activity" BUT what "electrochemical activity" ACTUALLY PRODUCES is NOT YET, in the days of when this is written, fully understood NOR known.

And HOW do 'you' KNOW that the OBVIOUSLY observed "electrochemical activity" in the brain is 'thought', itself.

Is this a KNOWN fact, or just what is THOUGHT to be 'thought'?

Is it just some thing written in a book, and therefore, and SOMEHOW, MUST BE TRUE?

What I found VERY HELPFUL in discovering AND learning far more about HOW the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK is done by STUDYING the ACTUAL THING, which THINKS it KNOWS what is actually true, right, AND correct INSTEAD.

Instead of just LOOKING AT and STUDYING the physical brain, itself, which is just another organ that is just made up of particles of matter, I found that by just LOOKING AT the 'thoughts', themselves, in "one's own head", as they say, FROM thee Truly OPEN perspective, and thus "inadvertently STUDYING" 'thoughts' themselves, and a 'self' also, then this is HOW actually discovering and KNOWING HOW the Mind and the brain work, comes about.

LOOKING AT and 'trying to' STUDY a physical organ like the brain will NEVER expose 'you' to who (and what) 'you' Truly ARE.

Learning HOW 'you' work, then 'you' will KNOW HOW EVERY one works, then thee BIG PICTURE OF THINGS really starts becoming VERY CLEAR.

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:14 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm
Age wrote:
But ONCE who and what the you and the I are KNOWN for sure Trust Me when I say
to I and your future readers UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY what is going on here now
I think I know what you mean but as you will not explain it in any more detail I will not ask you to
But WHY say I will NOT explain this in any more detail?

WHY would 'you' ASSUME such a thing?

I explained this in thorough detail.

As I said, I, and your future readers, ALREADY UNDERSTAND THIS PERFECTLY.

I did NOT need to explain this to "them" in any more detail I explained this, to 'you'.

So, WHY is it that 'you' are NOT getting the detail but 'they' CAN?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm
I will leave it there unless or until it comes up again and to see if you are more forthcoming then
WHY do 'you' NOT be a little more forthcoming AND inquisitive, and ASK for what it is EXACTLY that 'you' would LIKE?

What is is that 'you' are MISSING, which is just so OBVIOUS to me, that I can NOT even SEE why you can NOT SEE it?

This is WHAT HAPPENED.

You wrote: When you say back in those days when this is written why use both the past and present tense in the same sentence

I wrote: Because 'you' are writing in the present tense, to 'you'. Whereas, 'I' and the 'readers' are seeing 'your' responses from the past, tense.

What is SO HARD for 'you' to understand about this?
WHY did 'you' ASSUME there is some detail MISSING?
What exactly is IT, which you think I am NOT being forthcoming about?

If 'you' ASSUME and THINK I am NOT being forthcoming about some thing, then either you KNOW what I am NOT being forthcoming about OR you ASSUME I am NOT being forthcoming about some thing.

If 'you' ASSUME I am NOT being forthcoming about some thing, then 'you' have a reason this ASSUMPTION, so WHAT IS that reason?'

Your OPEN and Honest Answers here will HELP 'you' far more than they HELP 'Me'.

I am just guiding 'you', so that 'you' can HELP "yourself". But OBVIOUSLY that is ONLY if you WANT to help "yourself". I OBVIOUSLY also can NOT help those who do NOT want to help "themselves".

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:47 pm

Age wrote:
Instead of just LOOKING AT and STUDYING the physical brain itself which is just another organ that is just made up of particles of matter I found
that by just LOOKING AT the thoughts themselves in ones own head as they say FROM thee Truly OPEN perspective and thus inadvertently
STUDYING thoughts themselves and a self also then this is HOW actually discovering and KNOWING HOW the Mind and the brain work now
This is indeed how you can learn more about how the brain works
There is also more that you can do as well - you can share your findings with others who are also learning about the brain works
This knowledge can then be passed on to others who want to learn about it too so it benefits everyone involved and that is good

surreptitious57
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:52 pm

Age wrote:
Your OPEN and Honest Answers here will HELP you far more than they HELP Me
But my thoughts are already helping me without even giving any you answers
One can and will learn more just by simply understanding what is being said

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:45 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:47 pm
Age wrote:
Instead of just LOOKING AT and STUDYING the physical brain itself which is just another organ that is just made up of particles of matter I found
that by just LOOKING AT the thoughts themselves in ones own head as they say FROM thee Truly OPEN perspective and thus inadvertently
STUDYING thoughts themselves and a self also then this is HOW actually discovering and KNOWING HOW the Mind and the brain work now
This is indeed how you can learn more about how the brain works
Okay, so what has actually been learned from LOOKING AT the physical brain directly from and through magnetic resonance imagining, besides;

1. There is "electromagnetic activity".
2. There is "firing of neuron activity".

What else has actually been learned, which is NOT just an ASSUMPTION?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:47 pm
There is also more that you can do as well - you can share your findings with others who are also learning about the brain works
I am in the process of learning how to share my unintended findings.

But to be FULLY UNDERSTOOD, ALL of what is to be shared has to be explained so that HOW it ALL fits together can be SEEN.

For example to FULLY UNDERSTOOD just the Mind and the brain actually work one first needs to learn and KNOW just HOW thy little 'self' came about and who and what thee True 'Self' IS, but to FULLY UNDERSTAND this one first needs to learn and KNOW just HOW the Mind and the brain work. There is a True 'catch-22' situation I have to first learn how to overcome.

For example because of just HOW the Mind and the brain work, some adults actually BELIEVE that "they" have "their OWN mind", or are extremely RESISTANT to SEEING or to just even contemplating any thing other than this. The brain has already been infected in such a way, which is making it harder to learn how to SHOW the "brain", and its 'thoughts', just HOW it actually works. In other words, the 'self' is literally STOPPING its 'self' from discovering, learning, and KNOWING who and what thy True Self actually REALLY IS.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:47 pm
This knowledge can then be passed on to others who want to learn about it too so it benefits everyone involved and that is good
This is the WHOLE trouble here, NO adult human being, well in this forum anyway, Truly 'wants to learn about this'. As EVIDENCED and PROVEN by the writings in this thread.

For example, telling me things like; I think I know what you mean but as you will not explain it in any more detail I will not ask you to IS NOT a sign that one is Truly INQUISITIVE and Truly WANTS TO LEARN any thing.

Unless I am specifically TOLD, I OBVIOUSLY do NOT know absolutely each and EVERY thought within each and EVERY human body. Therefore, I do NOT know what 'you' KNOW and DO NOT KNOW.

There is absolutely NO use going on and on in greater and greater detail about some thing, to some one, IF they ALREADY KNOW IT. I have also found there is NO use going on and on in greater and greater detail about some thing, to some one, who from the very outset is NOT going to agree or accept it anyway.

Also, to FULLY UNDERSTAND just HOW the Mind and the brain work, and just who and what thy True Self IS, one just NEEDS to be Truly OPEN, Honest, and seriously Wanting to change, for the better, "themselves". I can NOT teach to those who are NOT YET READY, which can be frustrating because the actual simplicity of ALL-OF-THIS is breathtakingly BEAUTIFUL.

For example, the Mind, of which there is ONLY One, is OPEN ALWAYS. This True OPENNESS is what has ALLOWED human beings, collectively and individually, from their beginning to be ABLE to learn, understand, AND reason ANY and EVERY thing.

Whereas, the human brain, of which there is as many of them as there are human bodies, is ONLY able to collect and gather information from what the five senses of what that individual body experiences. This information is obtained, with some retained, which becomes 'thoughts' and/or 'emotions'. The ONLY thoughts that can be expressed are from the information that has been input. 'thoughts', loosely, (and for just the moment) are basically just information turned into knowledge. The individual brain can only output the knowledge that has been input, which OBVIOUSLY would be separate, different AND unique individual for each and EVERY separate, different AND unique individual human body. These individual 'thoughts/knowledge', being held within each individual human body is what I call the little 'selves'. However, the combination of ALL these 'thoughts/knowledge' is thee One "body of KNOWledge" of ALL-THERE-IS, which the AGREED UPON by ALL holds thee actual REAL Truth of things.

The collective, or collected, thoughts is thy True 'Self', which is just thee Truly OPEN Mind, whereas the individual and separated thoughts is just the person 'self'. The human brain, which holds this 'self', works just like a computer, the human brain is essentially just an information processor, and so can ONLY provide knowledge from the raw information that has been input, through any or all of the five sense. Thee OPEN Mind is, however, above and beyond this and so is ABLE TO and CAN decipher ALL of that thought and knowledge and SEE what is actually True, Right, AND Correct. The brain can NOT do this. The brain, through thought can ONLY see from what information/knowledge has ALREADY be obtained and retained, just like how ONLY a computer can also.

I could go on and on and on. But what would make this far simpler AND far easier is WHAT IS NOT YET FULLY UNDERSTOOD and/or WHAT IS SO FAR PERCEIVED TO BE WRONG was expressed, by each one of 'you', human beings, so then I would KNOW, for sure, what WAY to explain this BETTER, simpler AND easier to each one of those brains. Obviously, each one of 'you' is at different stages in Life, with each one ALSO knowing different things. So, to explain this in a way that 'you' each individual WILL learn and UNDERSTAND, then this NEEDS to be expressed in a different way. Considering how absolutely EVERY one of 'you' is a uniquely different human being, and so ALREADY KNOWS and SEES things differently, and considering just HOW many of 'you' there are, when this is written, then LEARNING and FINDING the BEST way to explain ALL-OF-THIS so that ALL-OF-'YOU' can and WILL FULLY UNDERSTAND it, just takes some time. This is where PATIENCE comes in.

Now, if just of 'you', like for example; 'you', "surreptitiuous57", were to HELP in this process by informing me of what it is that you would Truly like to learn and/or understand, AS WELL AS informing me what it is that 'you' Truly do NOT YET understand, from what I have said and expressed so far, then this would HELP me TREMENDOUSLY, which in turn would HELP ALL-OF-HUMANITY in the long run.

If, and WHEN, one human being, HELPS me to learn HOW to communicate with ALL of 'you', human beings, BETTER, then discovering, learning, and Truly UNDERSTANDING the KNOWLEDGE of just HOW living in peace and harmony with one "another" can be SHARED. But considering human being's past history please do NOT expect that ALL-OF-THIS will be UNDERSTOOD in a few words in a philosophy forum. Talking in a philosophy forum, to me, is just a place where the process to LEARN HOW TO COMMUNICATE BETTER is made. The actual process of TEACHING will be done later from explaining with and through examples.

Age
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Age » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:58 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Age wrote:
Your OPEN and Honest Answers here will HELP you far more than they HELP Me
But my thoughts are already helping me without even giving any you answers
The saying "my thoughts" is an absolutely WRONG perception of what IS actually True, Right, and Correct.

If "your thoughts" are helping "you", then explain in detail firstly;
WHAT 'you' ARE?
Then, HOW 'you' have 'thoughts'?
And then, HOW those 'thoughts' actually supposedly help 'you'?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:52 pm
One can and will learn more just by simply understanding what is being said
But one can also become completely and utterly distorted and more confused just by simply understanding what is said, but which is actually NOT True, NOT Right, and/or NOT Correct, in the first place anyway.

"understanding" 'that' which is a falsehood in the beginning does NOT help any one. This type of so called "understanding" only leads to the learning of what is WRONG, which only leads to and causes more confusion.

Are human beings ever OPEN enough to just WONDER WHY are they still searching for answers AND understanding, even after the millions of years they have been in Existence for?

There is A WAY to LEARN and UNDERSTAND what IS actually True, Right, and Correct, and in such a way that the Truth of things can be KNOWN, for sure 100%. And, if the Truth be KNOWN, this WAY is ALREADY KNOWN within 'you'. This KNOWLEDGE, however, is just ALREADY UNCONSCIOUSLY KNOWN, yet it is actually some times consciously expressed. BUT when expressed is almost immediately BLOCKED and STOPPED, by just what has been, wrongly labeled, "learned just by simply "understanding" what has been previously said".

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12312
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: A Theory of Pretty Much Everything

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:23 am

roydop wrote:The voice in your head is a physical phenomenon? ...
Yes, what else do you think it could be?
All particles also have wavelike characteristics. It's called the "Wave Function" in quantum physics.
You really need to make your mind up as are you now saying these 'thought waves' are particles as well? If so then they are physical, as are these 'waves'.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 7744
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm

"thought waves' are particles as well?"

Post by henry quirk » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:46 am

Well, yeah! Where you been, man? Thoughts are made of tiny bits of thoughtonium which zip around the etherscape in undulations powered by moon beams.

How can you not know this?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests