I'm a Theist

[Veritas Aequitas]

So do you still believe God exists as real?

I believe that God exists, beyond that there is very little that I can say for sure.

The phrase 'God exists' is meaningless.
"Exist" is not a predicate.

I asked 'do you believe God exists as real?'
Note the predicate 'as real'?

Thus God has to exists as a real thing.
So what is that real-thing that is termed with the word 'God'?

If you cannot show what is that real-thing that is labelled 'God', it is most likely you are referring to an illusion, i.e. a transcendental illusion in your brain and mind.
This transcendental illusion as conjured in the brain/mind is driven by the subconscious fear of death in its various forms.

[Age]

More specifically a Lutheran but I listen to a lot of Atheist programs and call-in shows. Mostly I agree with the Atheist as they demolish the Theist who tries to prove the existence of God. I look at the old testament as parabel since Jesus had to learn the practice somewhere.

But proving God exists is FAR easier and far simpler than proving God does not exist.

The reason WHY the so called "atheist" demolish the so called "theist", who 'tries to' prove the existence of God, is because the perspective from the so called "atheist" they have NO real concept of what God actually IS yet.

Most Theists fail at trying to prove God's existence, How could an Atheist have a concept of God if they don't believe in Gods existence?

My apologies profusely. When I wrote the second "atheist" I meant to write "theist".

You said you agree with the "atheist" as they demolish the "theist" who tries to prove the existence of God. I meant to write: the reason WHY the "theist" can so easily demolish the "theist", when the "theist" tries to prove the existence of God, is because the "theist" does NOT have the Real and True concept of what God actually IS, YET.

Again, apologies. (It is amazing how just one letter can so easily DESTROY the whole context of what is written. One letter can actually ruin the meaning behind a million or more. This SHOWS just how careful one has to be to write in a way that is fully heard and fully understood.)

I hope what I have said now makes more sense, to you?

Why do you use the term "so called Atheist"?

Because terms like "atheist", like "theist", like "christian", "muslim", "jew", "buddhist", "american", "russian", "chinese", "teacher", "scientist", "priest", et cetera, et cetera are NOT actual real things. They can NOT be uniformly defined, accepted, and agreed with by all as well as being one an actual thing itself. What they are are just parts of an actual thing. What that actual real thing is is a human being, who just thinks differently from "another" human being. So, ALL of these labels placed onto human beings are just that - just labels or just names, and NOT real actual things, in and of themselves.

Human beings are real things, which, unfortunately, place incorrect labels/names on each other. It is 'people' who place incorrect labels and names onto "other" people.

Just out of informing, it is also the placement of (incorrect) separate names and labels, and the placing of human beings into these separate named and labeled groups, which is a huge cause of the actual friction, fighting, and warring between ALL of 'you', human beings.

Most Atheists use logic to determine that they have no proof of God's existence but since when does God or the Universe follow Human rules of logic?

God/Universe does NOT use human "logic". The very PROOF of just how often "human logic" is ILLOGICAL or just plain WRONG, and just how fallible that so called "logic" is, is the very reason WHY God would NEVER even entertain the idea of using such "logic". God/Universe/Mind uses Nature's Logic instead. This Logic CAN and DOES very simply AND very easily prove once and for ALL IF God exists or NOT.

Discovering AND understanding this will happen when the Real and True concept of what God actually IS is revealed, agreed upon, and accepted. Until then those human beings who BELIEVE God exists will just keep 'trying to' prove that, while those human beings who BELIEVE God does NOT exist will just keep BELIEVING that.

The Truth, however, WILL BE revealed.

By the way, great OPEN and Truly inquisitive questioning. Also, great pick up of MY mistake here. (I secretly wish ALL of my other mistakes, flaws, wrongness in my writings were picked up so quickly as well.)

[Dontaskme]

I'm a Theist

The I cannot be a Theist. The I can only know 'theist' as a concept OF I - but not be I - as I cannot be the concept I know.

No ''theist'' has ever been seen, only KNOWN.

The seer of the known is I and I cannot be the known for the known know and see no thing but I

.

Interesting ideas.

I'm basically saying this ...

I believe that God exists, beyond that there is very little that I can say for sure.

Albeit in a different way to how your way appeared.

.

[Age]

I'm a Theist

The I cannot be a Theist.

VERY TRUE, to me.

The I can only know 'theist' as a concept OF I - but not be I - as I cannot be the concept I know.

To me, thee 'I' KNOWS:
WHERE the concept "theist" comes from.
WHAT a concept of "theist" is.
WHY the concept "theist" came to be.
WHEN the concept "theist" came to be. And,
HOW this concept and ALL other concepts - relate to 'I'.

No ''theist'' has ever been seen, only KNOWN.

"theist" is just a concept, 'thought' to be a real thing. A concept of some thing, however, which is not an actual physical thing, as you say, can not be seen, and that concept, in a sense, is also, as you say, only "known".

The seer of the known is I and I cannot be the known for the known know and see no thing but I

.

To me, this seems rather illogical.

To me;
The seer of the 'known' is 'I' makes sense, that is; if the 'known' is for example the concept "theist" that I know. So, the seer of what is known IS 'I'.
But,
Why can 'I' not be the 'known'? If 'I' KNOW what the concept 'I' IS, then 'I' am the known. IF 'I' KNOW who and what 'I' REALLY am, then 'I' am, literally REALLY 'KNOWN'. Therefore, 'I' am the SEER, the KNOWN, and the SEER of the KNOWN, or the KNOWER of the SEER, as well.

Now, IF I share this KNOWN KNOWledge with 'you', human beings, who have the ability to gather, collect, and store KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION within those Truly amazing brains, then 'I' can be, literally, KNOWN, through shared KNOWledge.

I do NOT understand what 'you' mean by, "the known know and see no thing but I", especially considering the few words before this it says, "I cannot be the known" and "The seer of the known is I". Now, IF the seer of the known IS 'I', but 'I' cannot be the known, then HOW could "the known KNOW (and see no thing but) 'I' ", as 'you' say 'it' can?

To say,
"the seer of the known is I" and "the known sees I", contradicts itself. Unless of course 'you' are insisting that what the seer sees can also see the seer?
And,
"for the known know no thing but I" contradicts "I cannot be the known". IF the 'known' knows the 'I', then obviously the 'I' can be 'known'.

'you' seem to contradict so often.

To me, the seer of the known is 'I'. 'I' can be KNOWN, very simply as 'I', (which can be defined and explained in other very simple and easy terms, which forms a perfectly complete picture of ALL-THERE-IS). 'I' am, simply, thee KNOWN 'I', which CAN (and DO) SEE ALL things, not just thee 'I'. This KNOWN 'I' IS the ONLY One that can SEE and KNOW ALL things.

Also, would it be easier to understand the words; "For the known can not know nor see any thing but I", then the way the words appear above? Because how could the 'known' (or any thing) know and see 'no thing'?

How could a 'thing' possibly be able to "know" or "see" 'no thing'?

What could possible be "known" about 'no thing', and, What could possibly be "seen" in 'no thing'?

Obviously thee Truly OPEN Mind, or Consciousness, Itself, or just the very simple 'I' CAN and DOES KNOW and SEE 'no thing'. But, from a human beings perspective, what do 'they' know about 'no thing' and see when they LOOK AT 'no thing'?

[Age]

So do you still believe God exists as real?

I believe that God exists, beyond that there is very little that I can say for sure.

The phrase 'God exists' is meaningless.
"Exist" is not a predicate.

I asked 'do you believe God exists as real?'
Note the predicate 'as real'?

Thus God has to exists as a real thing.
So what is that real-thing that is termed with the word 'God'?

Universe
Mind

There, now that that has been done, what happens next?

If you cannot show what is that real-thing that is labelled 'God', it is most likely you are referring to an illusion, i.e. a transcendental illusion in your brain and mind.

There is NO "your mind".

The very reason 'you', human beings, still have NOT YET worked ALL-OF-THIS out yet is because you have ALL been tricked and fooled for thousands upon thousands of years into BELIEVING things that are completely FALSE and MISLEADING. For example, the very THING, which is used to DISCOVER, LEARN, and WORK THINGS OUT ACCURATELY, is A Truly OPEN Mind (God) has been CLOSED by the very clever human brain, and belief-system (devil), to think and BELIEVE that 'it', the person, has its own "mind".

The brain, literally, (devilishly) tricks itself into BELIEVING (which is just evil or the devil at work) that it has no way of knowing things like, God, Love, Mind, and the other 'GOOD' things in Life. I could go on for hours explaining in more and more detail, with each detail proving another, and another, and another, leading to a complete KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING, but I will leave it all for now.

This transcendental illusion as conjured in the brain/mind is driven by the subconscious fear of death in its various forms.

But you just said 'IF you cannot show what is that real-thing, then it is most likely an illusion'. BUT, then you immediately go on to explain HOW the "illusion", supposedly, came about.

IF 'you' are going to use the 'IF word, then 'you' have to WAIT, to SEE if the IF can be provided. Otherwise, IF 'you' are just going to JUMP straight into providing a conclusion, which you have OBVIOUSLY just done right here now, again, as well as have done countless other times before, then all 'you' are really doing is just SHOWING how CLOSED 'you' really are, and how 'you' are NOT open to any thing other than your currently held BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS. 'you' are just providing a PRIME EXAMPLE of one who has been TRICKED and FOOLED completely. So thank 'you'.

Also, based on 'your' own LOGIC here; IF I can show what is a real-thing, which is labelled 'God', then it is most likely I am referring to NO illusion, and thus most likely just revealing the actual real Truth of things, correct?

Or, are 'you' also NOT open to this even being a possibility? ('you' are, after all, CLOSED to just about every other thing I have suggested).

[Age]

The I cannot be a Theist. The I can only know 'theist' as a concept OF I - but not be I - as I cannot be the concept I know.

No ''theist'' has ever been seen, only KNOWN.

The seer of the known is I and I cannot be the known for the known know and see no thing but I

.

Interesting ideas.

I'm basically saying this ...

I believe that God exists, beyond that there is very little that I can say for sure.

Albeit in a different way to how your way appeared.

.

But remember, just because some thing is not known how to be said, expressed, nor shared YET, that does not mean that it can not come about, soon enough.

[RCSaunders]

But remember, just because some thing is not known how to be said, expressed, nor shared YET, that does not mean that it can not come about, soon enough.

Age, if you know what God is, why don't you just say it. Most people are, "open," to plain simple explanations.

[gaffo]

More specifically a Lutheran but I listen to a lot of Atheist programs and call-in shows.

more power to you for being a Theist - as long as one of goodwill.

I'm an Atheist myself.

its good for you to listen to other viewpoints too BTW.

as it is me!

lol.

Mostly I agree with the Atheist as they demolish the Theist who tries to prove the existence of God.

IMO the debate - doe God exit? or not? is folly.

man/me/you lack the ability to know for sure about the matter, and for me it is irrelivent.my nature is too low to "know" if your God exists or not, so not fixated on the matter personally.

I look at the old testament as parabel since Jesus had to learn the practice somewhere.

??? dont follow, tell me more if willing .

[gaffo]

More specifically a Lutheran but I listen to a lot of Atheist programs and call-in shows. Mostly I agree with the Atheist as they demolish the Theist who tries to prove the existence of God. I look at the old testament as parabel since Jesus had to learn the practice somewhere.

But proving God exists is FAR easier and far simpler than proving God does not exist.

no, man is too low of nature to know if god/s exist or do not.

so, no your above statement is wrong either way.

[gaffo]

So do you still believe God exists as real?

I believe that God exists,

good for you - not being flippant here.

i only hope your god - if he exist is a a just god.

beyond that there is very little that I can say for sure.

Humble view, though not humble as much as i - you affirm God exists.

at least i may assume you would value a just God (one you affirm, and i do not see as existing).

[gaffo]

Most Theists fail at trying to prove God's existence,

an unproovable

either way

How could an Atheist have a concept of God if they don't believe in Gods existence?

no man has the concept of God (my view - man is too low to know God/s) - if one claims to then it is via "faith" (culture, emotions/etc)

not rational empirism.

- not into debating "does god exist or not" - my view is man is not able to "know" god and so not know if "he" exists, and so all such debates are noise to me.

per empiricism, i assume there is no God, and hope i'm wrong and that your god is a just god, if he exists.

Why do you use the term "so called Atheist"?

yes, i'm curious about that as well.

Most Atheists use logic to determine that they have no proof of God's existence but since when does God or the Universe follow Human rules of logic?

yes...............and yes.

[gaffo]

I'm a deist, doc, so: I don't have to listen to anybody...

You still listen to yourself and I think you are not Nobody.

Yeah, but I trust me.

that is good if you know yourself, not if you don't.

i don't know you - so not sure which camp you are in.

just sayin.

[gaffo]

So do you still believe God exists as real?

I believe that God exists, but I don't know in what form.

If I may suggest a form: Crom, he ain't never let me down (but, then he ain't done jack for me either).

all heil Crom-crock! the real irish god!

[henry quirk]

...I hang *Robert Howard's Crom on my indifferent creator cuz it's a name and face that fit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crom_(fictional_deity)

[henry quirk]

not sure which camp you are in.

I do.