Free will and things I dont see anyone has noticed

[Atla]

You go your way, i go mine?

Okay

[SpheresOfBalance]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing. There is no body/mind problem.

It's just the way the organic machine works. Humans, and all animals for that matter, are simply recording devices, albeit not very accurate, especially over the long term.

Free will is simply comparing all experiences that are stored in our memory (RAM/hard drive) to extrapolate (CPU) best case decisions so as to feed those things we need/want/desire. Which is why knowledge is so important. The more knowledge one has the more choices they're aware of.

Crap need/want/desire are themselves, while examining their relative juxtaposition, proof of free will. While need are those things necessary, without which we'd literally die. And want/desire are those things we choose, sometimes in spite of our needs, and sometimes because of our needs. The difference between the two; evidence of free will.

The subject has absolutely nothing to do with, would be, deities.

[SteveKlinko]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing. There is no body/mind problem.

It's just the way the organic machine works. Humans, and all animals for that matter, are simply recording devices, albeit not very accurate, especially over the long term.

Free will is simply comparing all experiences that are stored in our memory (RAM/hard drive) to extrapolate (CPU) best case decisions so as to feed those things we need/want/desire. Which is why knowledge is so important. The more knowledge one has the more choices they're aware of.

Crap need/want/desire are themselves, while examining their relative juxtaposition, proof of free will. While need are those things necessary, without which we'd literally die. And want/desire are those things we choose, sometimes in spite of our needs, and sometimes because of our needs. The difference between the two; evidence of free will.

The subject has absolutely nothing to do with, would be, deities.

You are just another Blind Physicalist who thinks everyone else must also be Blind.

[Zelebg]

Let's break it down...

Ok. How about I phrase is it like this: you do make your choices, although they were predetermined at the beginning of time. Because I think that is what I said. But in any case, does that statement even make sense?

[henry quirk]

I make the choice (that is: it begins and ends with me, I cause the choice), or, I choose nuthin', am simply another waypoint for forces that originated at the beginning and propagate forward, and my sense of self-efficacy, my very experience of 'self' is some (perhaps biologically useful) illusion.

I'm 'agent' (a cause in my own right, a locus of causal power) or I'm 'event' (causally as powerless as a drop of rain).

We know my position. Yours? You seems to be fence-sittin', Z.

[Zelebg]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing.

What do you mean by consciousness when you say it does not exist?

You sense, feel, think... have experience. Even if it is all illusion, you still need consciousness to be conscious of it.

[SpheresOfBalance]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing. There is no body/mind problem.

It's just the way the organic machine works. Humans, and all animals for that matter, are simply recording devices, albeit not very accurate, especially over the long term.

Free will is simply comparing all experiences that are stored in our memory (RAM/hard drive) to extrapolate (CPU) best case decisions so as to feed those things we need/want/desire. Which is why knowledge is so important. The more knowledge one has the more choices they're aware of.

Crap need/want/desire are themselves, while examining their relative juxtaposition, proof of free will. While need are those things necessary, without which we'd literally die. And want/desire are those things we choose, sometimes in spite of our needs, and sometimes because of our needs. The difference between the two; evidence of free will.

The subject has absolutely nothing to do with, would be, deities.

You are just another Blind Physicalist who thinks everyone else must also be Blind.

Yet you were seemingly incapable of saying why you believe that's true. And I mean a point by point, rebuttal.

[SpheresOfBalance]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing.

What do you mean by consciousness when you say it does not exist?

You sense, feel, think... have experience. Even if it is all illusion, you still need consciousness to be conscious of it.

Read the following to understand what it is that I find within the question of consciousness.

"The coherence of the concept

Many philosophers have argued that consciousness is a unitary concept that is understood intuitively by the majority of people in spite of the difficulty in defining it.[8] Others, though, have argued that the level of disagreement about the meaning of the word indicates that it either means different things to different people (for instance, the objective versus subjective aspects of consciousness), or else it encompasses a variety of distinct meanings with no simple element in common.[30]

Philosophers differ from non-philosophers in their intuitions about what consciousness is.[31] While most people have a strong intuition for the existence of what they refer to as consciousness,[8] skeptics argue that this intuition is false, either because the concept of consciousness is intrinsically incoherent, or because our intuitions about it are based in illusions. Gilbert Ryle, for example, argued that traditional understanding of consciousness depends on a Cartesian dualist outlook that improperly distinguishes between mind and body, or between mind and world. He proposed that we speak not of minds, bodies, and the world, but of individuals, or persons, acting in the world. Thus, by speaking of "consciousness" we end up misleading ourselves by thinking that there is any sort of thing as consciousness separated from behavioral and linguistic understandings.[32] More generally, many philosophers and scientists have been unhappy about the difficulty of producing a definition that does not involve circularity or fuzziness.[29]"

I completely concur with that which the above illuminates, so as to deny any sort of ghost in the machine, instead simply seeing the organic machine.

[Zelebg]

Read the following to understand what it is that I find within the question of consciousness.

But which one is your argument exactly, let's see.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.

If you do not understand what "subjectively" is refering to in that definition, then you are not conscious. But if you do understand, then please try to explain how do you arrive to the conclusion it's an illusion.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Read the following to understand what it is that I find within the question of consciousness.

But which one is your argument exactly, let's see.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.

If you do not understand what "subjectively" is refering to in that definition, then you are not conscious. But if you do understand, then please try to explain how do you arrive to the conclusion it's an illusion.

Seriously, did you read and understand the above link???

[SpheresOfBalance]

Read the following to understand what it is that I find within the question of consciousness.

But which one is your argument exactly, let's see.
All that I quoted!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.

If you do not understand what "subjectively" is refering to in that definition, then you are not conscious. But if you do understand, then please try to explain how do you arrive to the conclusion it's an illusion.

Seriously, did you read and understand the above link???

Yeah a lot of that crap is wrong too. It speaks of desires where it's clearly needs. Obviously Sentience also requires a 'conceptual' upgrade.

From your own link:
"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.[1] Eighteenth-century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think (reason) from the ability to feel (sentience)."
"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.[1] Eighteenth-century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think (reason) from the ability to feel (sentience)."
=======================================================
concept
noun

1An abstract idea.
=======================================================
abstract
adjective

1Existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.
=======================================================
idea
noun

1A thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action.
‘recently, the idea of linking pay to performance has caught on’
‘it's a good idea to do some research before you go’

1.1in singular A mental impression.
‘our menu list will give you some idea of how interesting a low-fat diet can be’

1.2An opinion or belief.
‘nineteenth-century ideas about drinking’

2the ideaThe aim or purpose.
‘I took a job with the idea of getting some money together’

3Philosophy
(in Platonic thought) an eternally existing pattern of which individual things in any class are imperfect copies.
‘For example, the "Form" or "Idea" of a horse is intelligible, abstract, and applies to all horses.’
‘The idea "cat" is simply pure "catness" which exists and moves about the world of Ideas.’

3.1(in Kantian thought) a concept of pure reason, not empirically based in experience.
‘In contrast, Kant calls the concepts of pure reason 'transcendental ideas.'’
‘Kant nonetheless takes the ideas of God, the soul, and the world to have a valid philosophical use as “regulative,” i.e., for guiding the direction of inquiry to be all the more encompassing in scope.’

All definitions from the: --Oxford Dictionary--

Are you going to need me to untangle the knots for you?

[Zelebg]

Are you going to need me to untangle the knots for you?

You are making the point there is no point to talk about anything, and yet you are talking yourself. Everything is a concept from our _subjective point of view. But this subjective 1st person view also makes one concept different than any other: "I think, therefore I am". And those I's in that statement is the only concept you can actually be certain of, even if the whole of extern space and time reality is just an illusion.

[SteveKlinko]

There's no such thing as a soul or consciousness, or any other such misconception of some mystical thing. There is no body/mind problem.

It's just the way the organic machine works. Humans, and all animals for that matter, are simply recording devices, albeit not very accurate, especially over the long term.

Free will is simply comparing all experiences that are stored in our memory (RAM/hard drive) to extrapolate (CPU) best case decisions so as to feed those things we need/want/desire. Which is why knowledge is so important. The more knowledge one has the more choices they're aware of.

Crap need/want/desire are themselves, while examining their relative juxtaposition, proof of free will. While need are those things necessary, without which we'd literally die. And want/desire are those things we choose, sometimes in spite of our needs, and sometimes because of our needs. The difference between the two; evidence of free will.

The subject has absolutely nothing to do with, would be, deities.

You are just another Blind Physicalist who thinks everyone else must also be Blind.

Yet you were seemingly incapable of saying why you believe that's true. And I mean a point by point, rebuttal.

When I say you are Blind I mean that your own Conscious Visual experience is embedded in the front of your face and yet you say it does not exist. You must be Blind.