Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:56 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:18 am
I have edited my argument as follows;
A. DNA wise all humans are programmed to strive to survive with a will-to-live at all costs.
P1 To ensure one survive with the will-to-live one has avoid death.
P2 To avoid death, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
C3 Therefore to survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
Well, let's check that over, step by step, and see if it turns out to be valid.
A. seems wrong. Sometimes people agree to die -- over a value, a principle or an ideal they have. For example, a martyr, or a warrior who plunges into a hopeless battle, or a fireman who enters a burning building to save a child that's beyond reasonable hope, or a mother sheltering her child from starvation by starving herself, and so on. So the "at all costs" seems wrong. There are "costs" some people are clearly wiling to pay.
In any case, it's not clear how A. is supposed to fit into the syllogism. Is it "P1a," and the next one "P1b?" That's an unusual way to form a syllogism. But okay, on to the syllogism itself.
Hmmm....
P1 Seems to me to say no more than, "To stay alive, people have to stay alive," essentially. In other words, it doesn't add any information, so far as I can tell.
I stated DNA wise, i.e. it is nature's that programmed a survival instinct in all humans.
But nature is never perfect and thus as evidenced, deviations do arise from what is intended in the program. Note synaesthesia and many others defects at birth.
In principle the will-to-live, since it is DNA driven, is an inherent trait of all human beings with a DNA driven algorithm mechanism supporting the will-to-live is in all humans.
Humans are very complex and thus there is a hierarchy of all other algorithms in the brain and external factors that influences the instinctual will-to-live positively or negatively.
In cases of negative effect to the will-to-live:
A person may be born with a potential defect in the will-to-live algorithm and nurturing could worsen this defect or the will-to-live is weaken by various stress factors. In this case, when the will-to-live is weakened the person is vulnerable to commit suicide. In this case the person may 'want' to die. However this only happen to a small percentile of humans.
I missed out the usual qualification to A.
When the will-to-live is not weakened, it will drive the human to survive at all costs, till inevitable mortality or when over weighed by a
trade off from other opposing factors.
This trade-off is not subjective but is grounded on some other instincts programmed by nature.
A martyred is willing or deliberately risk his death [e.g. suicide bomber] with a trade off of being rewarded an eternal life with greater rewards than other believers.
Note the martyred was originally driven to avoid by fearing death [physical] and clung to an ideology which unfortunate offer a preferable eternal life.
In the cases of a firemen, mother starving for a child, an other altruistic motives, the person's will-to-live is still intact but they have taken a calculated risk to ensure they do not die.
There will many other exceptions but they are within the margin of normal deviations [very low %] in nature.
But the point is;
DNA wise, all humans are programmed with a will-to-live algorithm to survive at all costs till the inevitable or a trade off.
"To stay alive, people have to stay alive,"
Nope.
The antithesis of 'alive' is 'death'.
Therefore to be alive means not dead.
Thus to stay alive one is programmed [DNA wise] to avoid death.
Thus my P1 is very logical and rational.
P2 I think, pretty clearly remains untrue. A person may not fear death, and yet may not die. A fearless warrior, for example, may survive a battle -- and may even be MORE likely to do so, in some cases. Or a person may skydive for fun, and do a hundred jumps and not die.
From P1 To stay alive one is programmed [DNA wise] to avoid death,
nature will establish various sub-programs to ensure the person avoid death instinctually.
One of this sub-program is 'fear of death' which will motivate one to avoid death.
Is P3 your conclusion? Because "P" usually designates a premise, not a conclusion. So should it be "C"? I'm going to guess so. Correct me if I'm wrong.
But in any case, it's clear to me that P1 plus P2 will not warrant P3, if that's the revision.
I labelled the third statement C3 in the above but I am not that pedantic if it is P3, since the statements are self-explanatory.
Therefore my original argument [syllogism] stays with addition of the necessary qualification to A.
- A. DNA wise all humans are programmed to strive to survive with a will-to-live at all costs till the inevitable or an instinctual trade off.
P1 To ensure one survive with the will-to-live one has avoid death.
P2 To avoid death, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
C3 Therefore to survive with the will-to-live, one has to fear death [subliminally or consciously].
Critically note the above focus is on the DNA driven program, thus instinctual which human cannot get rid off [at least in the present till a long time in the future]. There is no exception to it as a neural algorithm. The only consideration is whether there are defects in the program which is expected to be low in %.
Btw, I like your,
Well, let's check that over, step by step, and see if it turns out to be valid.
which preferably should be done with all counter proposals in this philosophical forums.
If you insist your counter proposition is true, you should provide a syllogism or a narrative that is sequitor so that I too can check your argument step by step.