Age wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:36 am
Are you joking?
By your, so called, "logic" here; That the unicorn is impossible to exist are real is one example representing all empirical things. This is beyond logic. This is just plain ridiculousness. Unless of course you mean some other thing?
It is possible for a unicorn [if define as horse with a single horn] to exists because the variables concern are empirically possible. This is a matter of awaiting for the empirical evidence to justify it.
However to insist an
absolutely perfect unicorn as real exists would be impossible because 'absolutely perfect' it not applicable to empirical things.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 amI ask you to show me one empirical thing that can be absolutely perfect.
And I have SHOWN you one thing. But you will NOT LOOK AT It.
That is; Thee Universe.
How many times do I have to tell you.
You have mentioned that many times but that is your assertion without any justification.
Kant had demonstrated God, The Soul, The Whole Universe are the ultimate ideas [thing-in-themselves] that are impossible to be real [empirically + philosophically].
Kant argument is very complex, I will not go into it until you have read his argument.
But one point is, parts [space, stars, planets, blackholes, etc.] of the Universe are empirical possible, but The-Whole-Universe that is absolutely perfect cannot be an empirical concept. Therefore The-Whole-Universe is impossible to be real.
One can think of an absolutely perfect Whole-Universe but it is impossible to real and realizable.
One limitation is there is no way to verify a Whole-Universe because humans cannot stand out of the Whole-Universe to take an independent view to justify its existence. It is worst if anyone were to try to justify whether the Whole-Universe is absolute perfect or not.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 amThe principle as I had explained above is;
No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect.
Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.
This is invalid, unsound, irrational, illogical, and is also probably close to being perfectly circular. That is; "No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect BECAUSE and SO whatever is empirical as real can not be absolutely perfect".
I would say that if that is NOT a perfect circle, then it is close enough to being one. Now, that we have finished with the absolutely absurd, let us LOOK AT this even further. "No empirical thing can be absolutely perfect" is ONLY your view and BELIEF. It is NOT an actual unambiguous, irrefutable fact.
Yes it is based on my belief.
However my belief is based on the confidence in Scientific truths as the most objective knowledge of reality available and this is enforced by philosophical proper plus critical thinking.
If you ever bring arguments and evidence to claim an absolutely perfect God/Universe exists, I will rely on reputable scientists to test your claims for its empirical foundation, then I will apply philosophical and critical thinking to verify those findings.
On the other hand, what you are relying on is merely subjective beliefs based on your own personal experiences which is not justified at all.
However I am very familiar with your claims which is claimed by many others who are mentally ill and others [drug addicts, meditators, the brain damage, etc.].
If you do NOT see the Universe, Itself, as being absolute AND perfect, then so be it. But just because you do not see It that way, then that does NOT mean that it is not absolute AND perfect.
I have explained above why The-Universe-in-itself as absolute and perfect is impossible to be real.
Also, what do you mean by; 'empirical thing'? Do you just mean a 'physical thing'?
I have already provided the definition of 'empirical.' Empirical things are things [physical or otherwise] which can be justified as scientifically real.
Since Science is the best objective basis for reality but not 100% reliable, it need to be reinforced with critical thinking and philosophy proper.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 amNote my argument;
- 1. Whatever is empirical as real cannot be absolutely perfect.
2. God is an absolute perfect entity
3. Therefore God cannot be empirically real.
I am getting VERY SICK AND TIRED of "noting your argument", AND also getting very sick and tired of THEN having to explain to you, once again, that it is NOT a 'sound AND valid argument'.
Note when you formulate a 'sound AND valid argument', then I want to SEE it, okay?
Until then all you are doing is expressing your views and BELIEFS only, and just calling them 'arguments'.
Who cares whether you are VERY SICK AND TIRED in this case.
What counts in this forum is proper and sound argument.
You cannot dispute my above argument is not a proper syllogism.
I believe the premises above are sound, it you think they are not, then give your proper counter arguments?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 amYou have given no justifications supported by evidence nor proof.
Yet some "other" people instantly SEE and also say that the Universe is absolute AND perfect.
But as I have ALREADY explained to you ENOUGH TIMES now. You are NOT capable of SEEING the justifications supported by evidence AND proof BECAUSE your OWN BELIEFS will NOT allow you to SEE the actual Truth of things.
Your OWN BELIEFS will only allow you to SEE those things that CONFIRM your already BIASES.
Yes, there are 'other' people who instantly SEE and also say that the Universe is absolute AND perfect, BUT they are mentally ill ranging from serious to mild, they have consumed hallucinogens, had brain damage, took drugs, meditated, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg
While there are 'other' people who believe as you do, their experiences are confined to only their brain and body. All of them are unable to justify what they claim is empirically real nor possible.
Kant had explained those who claimed a real absolute perfect God are deluded by pseudo logic. I have extended to explain the fundamental basis for the theists insistence God exists as real is due to psychology.
As explained above, it is not my own beliefs but I relied heavily on Scientific beliefs and philosophy-proper plus critical thinking.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 amAll you do is making a personal subjective claim which is similar to what the mentally ills are claiming.
How can such a claim be credible at all?
LOL
The EXACT SAME thing is being said about 'YOU', veritas aequitas, are you at all AWARE OF THIS FACT?
The very thing that you accuse me of doing is the very thing that 'you' ARE DOING.
Nope!
As explained I am not making any personal subjective claims but rather relied on Scientific truths and philosophical-proper and critical thinking [notable from Kant].
By the way 'personal subjective' claims CAN BE credible, IF, and WHEN, they are backed up with evidence AND proofs.
Yes, that was happened to, for example, Einstein theory and other scientific theory.
However the criteria is for whatever the personal subjective beliefs to be credible, they must first be empirically possible and testable fundamentally by the scientific method.
The idea of God as absolute perfect is merely a thought and is without any empirical element, thus impossible to be real as a starter.
I have quoted this many time, read it carefully and noting each critical term therein;
- There will therefore be Syllogisms which contain no Empirical premisses, and
by means of which [those syllogisms] we conclude from something which we know
to something else of which we have no Concept, and
to which, owing to an inevitable Illusion,
we yet ascribe Objective Reality.
B397
The above imply, you have a personal subjective beliefs, but your mind relied on certain syllogism [pseudo] to conclude a thought of no empirical basis and no concept, by deception of an illusion to something real of objective reality.
The PERFECT physical Universe/God exists. The evidence AND proof is right HERE right NOW.
But if you can NOT see It and/or keep MISSING It, then there is NOTHING else I can do.
If the Universe, Itself, is NOT big and ABSOLUTE enough for you to notice It AND accept It, then there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else that would suffice.
Also, If you do NOT see the PERFECTNESS of the Universe, Itself, then that is fine.
Obviously you are NEVER going to SEE some thing, which you BELIEVE does NOT exist.
Age:
But if you can NOT see It and/or keep MISSING It, then there is NOTHING else I can do.
This one of the most philosophically and scientifically stupid statement one can make in a philosophical statement.
If you have such a belief and keep it to yourself, there is no issue.
But the most terrible consequence of the above belief is when such as "The
PERFECT physical Universe/God exist" is taken to be "real" in terms of a real God [will answer prayers] send down a book that command believers to war against and kill non-believers for the reason they are disbelievers.
What I stated above has been been happening for thousands of years and millions had been killed in the past, still going on in the present and will continue in the future.
When you insist on your personal subjective beliefs of a
PERFECT physical Universe/God exist" you are indirectly providing moral support to those evil and violent theists, thus you are indirectly complicit their evil and violent acts.
All these is because you are selfish is comforting the subliminal pains arising out the inherent existential crisis.
You are selfish is caring only for your existential and emotional need but don't give a damn [insufficient empathy] to the evil and violent consequences you and the likes that is dumped on humanity.