There can be yin with yang and still NO need to do some thing.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:03 pmIndeed. Yin without Yang is a foolish notion.
Regards
DL
You do NOT have to do evil but you choose to, and 'you' can still exist.
There can be yin with yang and still NO need to do some thing.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:03 pmIndeed. Yin without Yang is a foolish notion.
Regards
DL
The scriptures I spoke of are quite clear.
We do have to do what some will see as evil to survive.Age wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:15 pmThere can be yin with yang and still NO need to do some thing.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:03 pmIndeed. Yin without Yang is a foolish notion.
Regards
DL
You do NOT have to do evil but you choose to, and 'you' can still exist.
I am referring to the Catholic God. They call God Him.Age wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:11 amLook, God is NOT a "he".bahman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:41 pmGod which I am aiming is the Catholic God who is the creator and goodness, buy goodness I mean that God always does good. I was wondering about a tension between goodness and freedom, by freedom I mean He has the ability to freely decide and do anything.Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:59 am
The only definition of 'God' that you are providing is that 'God is good', and you say that a good person can do evil, so then I would say Yes a 'good God' has the ability to do evil.
Are you satisfied now?
I am, however, still unsure what argument you are actually seeking. I do not even know how you are defining the word 'evil' here.
From my perspective ALL people can do evil and ALL adult human beings do do 'evil'. Does that help you?
So, if human beings can do 'evil' and they only have the ability to create some things, then I would say a God (good or not), which has the ability to create ALL things, also could do 'evil', and I am sure there are some people who say that God does do some 'evil' things. However, to me, even though a 'good God' has the ability to do 'evil', but never actually does 'evil'.
So, and just to repeat to make clear, to answer your question; Yes a 'good God' has the ability to do evil.
However, whether a God (good or not) actually does do 'evil' or not can be and will be explained when the words 'God' and 'evil' are defined once and for all, for me.
And what about the tension between goodness and freedom?Age wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:11 am Thee God that creates and is free, does, and is, just 'that'. The God that has the ability to freely decide and do anything, is just like how human beings have the ability to freely decide and do anything, with enough time, also
God always does good, human beings however do good AND bad.
Is there any thing else that you are looking for?
I agree with all you stated. My problem is the tension between goodness and freedom. Do you agree that there is tension?seeds wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:12 amseeds wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:35 pmIf such is the case, then shouldn’t the title of your thread be:
Can the Catholic God do evil?
Do you mean to frame it as a God who “always” does good, or a God who “only” does good?
However, either way, when it comes to the Catholic God, then I would suggest that any Being who would create and then send a defenseless soul into a context of everlasting (eternal) torture in a dimension of reality called hell,...
...takes the definition of evilness to a whole new level.First of all, I answer it by saying that the whole concept of hell is total nonsense.
Secondly...
(and just for the sake of addressing your question from the perspective of a horrifying thought experiment)
...I’d say that if the choice between heaven and hell is one that is truly up to the individual, then to be fair, the Catholic God should give that individual an actual glimpse of heaven first.
Then after allowing them to see the beauty of heaven, the Catholic God should then attach a chain to their feet and then dip them for 5 minutes into a vat of molten steel...
...(while making sure that they do not die, and that their sense of pain remains intact throughout the ordeal).
Now of course, I am being melodramatic about this, but in the highly doubtful instance that they weren’t driven completely insane during that 5 minute sampling of hell, what do you suppose their choice would be?
Thirdly, you seem to have missed the point about the absurdity of attributing any semblance of goodness to a Being (such as the Catholic God) who is capable and willing to inflict everlasting torture upon billions of defenseless souls.
It is literally infinitely worse, but assigning the quality of “goodness” to such a God is like saying that a serial murderer who savagely and sadistically tortures his victims before strangling them, is a good person because he treats his pet snake with kindness, or paints lovely landscape murals.
And lastly, but not leastly, if hell does indeed exist, then consider what a brazen lie it would be for the humans who made it to heaven to think that God and heaven represent the locus and source of “goodness” when, in fact,...
(and assuming they are not functioning at some bovine level of consciousness, plopping down heavenly cow pies in heavenly pastures)
...they have no choice but to conclude that all of the billions of humans being tortured in hell are actually their own mothers, and fathers, and sisters, and brothers, and wives, and husbands, and children, etc., etc.
I mean, would you not at this very moment attempt to move heaven and earth to save a loved one from some madman’s torture chamber?
So what happens to the heaven dwellers’ sense of outrage and disgust for someone who tortures others?
Again, this whole business of hell and punishment after death is total nonsense.
_______
Well that's justified then after i had an abortion and 'he' 'it' made me suffer more than Christ.
It doesn't solve anything. Even if we accept that both the Devil and God exist, we have no way of knowing who's the 'good' guy and who's the 'evil' guy without an innate moral compass.frosteagle wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:09 pm If the Devil does not exist, we would not know God. If Evil did not exist, we would not know good, just neutrality.
In a dualistic world, it could not be otherwise and the same condition applies to all of us who admit to having both good and evil sides.frosteagle wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:09 pm If the Devil does not exist, we would not know God. If Evil did not exist, we would not know good, just neutrality. From utilitarian ethical theory, absolute good is evil because it prevents good. If I assume God is real, he is evil because he is good because you cannot be good without being evil.
Goth is not my thing but I like the words this guy puts out. Then again, I am one of the good Christians, a Gnostic Christian.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:22 pmIt doesn't solve anything. Even if we accept that both the Devil and God exist, we have no way of knowing who's the 'good' guy who's the 'evil' guy?frosteagle wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:09 pm If the Devil does not exist, we would not know God. If Evil did not exist, we would not know good, just neutrality.
What if Satan is the good guy and God's the evil guy trash-talking Satan in his self-published book?
I edited my comment to make that exact point.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:29 pm How can you say you have no way of knowing good from evil?
In general terms, do you not know what you like? Do you not know what you dislike?
But since you are offering - I'll take you up on the challenge.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:29 pm Pick any moral issue and I will walk you through it if you cannot land on it being good or evil.
Hmm. Language is a bitch.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:35 pmI edited my comment to make that exact point.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:29 pm How can you say you have no way of knowing good from evil?
In general terms, do you not know what you like? Do you not know what you dislike?
Without innate morality it's impossible to tell good from evil.
Good one.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:39 pmBut since you are offering - I'll take you up on the challenge.Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:29 pm Pick any moral issue and I will walk you through it if you cannot land on it being good or evil.
We live in the world of autonomous/self-driving vehicles. We are already in a place where these vehicles can predict impact/accident as has happened with Tesla cars.
In the event of an unavoidable accident what should the self-driving car optimise for: protecting its occupants, or minimising casualties, even if it means killing its occupants?
e.g swerve on the sidewalk and kill 3 children, or swerve off the cliff and kill 2 passengers.
And to make it even more tricky. If cars with both algorithms existed - which one would you buy?