Atla wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:06 pm
If 'noumenon' means thing-in-itself, then all human experiences are noumena (but our 'senses' / 'perceptions' don't necessarily come into play).
To reference Wiki again:
The thing-in-itself (German: Ding an sich) is a concept introduced by Immanuel Kant. Things-in-themselves would be objects as they are, independent of observation.
We cannot know the true status of any phenomenal object (as it really is) independent of our observation of it.
Now if you want to assume
that an apple always retains its apple features when it is no longer being observed by any form of consciousness whatsoever, then you are free to make that assumption.
However, consider the three-dimensional image of an apple that you observe during a vivid dream.
The question is: does that dream apple retain its apple features after you awaken from the dream?
In other words, are there fully-formed images of apples (or cars, or trees, or houses, etc.) floating around in the ether of your mind?
when you are no longer observing them, do those 3-D phenomenal dream structures exist in some kind of informationally-based context that bears no resemblance to the actual objects?
If that is indeed a possibility, then that
(IMO) would represent the “noumenal” aspect of the dream apple.
The point is that the same question can be applied to the phenomenal features of the universe.