DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

For all things philosophical.

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Sculptor
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Sculptor » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:42 am
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:40 pm

What is "IT" anyway?
Consult knowledge, it will inform you of everything you want yo know, since you are asking the question.
But you wrote the question. So what is "it"?

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:29 am

Sculptor wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:42 am
Sculptor wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:40 pm

What is "IT" anyway?
Consult knowledge, it will inform you of everything you want yo know, since you are asking the question.
But you wrote the question. So what is "it"?
Then I have the answer, no probs.

jayjacobus
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm

When we determine the purpose of posting on forums like this, we will have made some small progress toward an answer.

But that will not get us close to the big picture. For that, you need to ask God or the in-the-know philosopher.

Neither are posting here.

Atum
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Atum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm

It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.
Why do you wish you were never born?

Atum
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Atum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:25 pm

When you're in the pits, yet finally find a spark of light at the end of the tunnel you just fall back into a deeper hole.. ill figure it out until it's worth living

jayjacobus
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:04 pm

Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.
Try to hang in there, friend.

My working life went from one toxic situation to another. One time I was in the deep, deep pits but I came out of it and when I did my perspective had changed. I am now more capable of dealing with the ups and downs that life presents. I hope you get out of the pits and find that you are more capable from the experience.

There are people on this forum who seem to not have a particularly useful perspective. They make up the pit for us who have a useful perspective.

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Lacewing
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Lacewing » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:10 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:34 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:35 am

Who told you - you are living?
Lacewing wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:35 pm
Are you asking ME?
Yes I am. Who told you - you are alive?
I didn't say anyone told me -- so I don't understand why you're turning this question on me when it's YOUR question, based on what you've been saying -- although I'm getting the sense that you don't want to admit to that now. For me, "life" is whatever it is... imagination, dream, artwork. I don't assign anything specific to it...but I enjoy and create with it as thoroughly as possible.
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:34 am
Lacewing wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:35 pm
You are the one who made the statement about the choice of whether to live or not, right?
Yes that's right.
Then answer your own question...yes? ("Who told you - you are living?")

Also, HOW DO YOU KNOW (as you said): "no one who is living ever had the choice of whether to live or not"?
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:34 am
Lacewing wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:35 pm
(explain) about how OTHERS made the choice for you to be born, and that life is all bullshit?
Others make the choice for another life to come into existence...
No, no... I already know that simplistic answer. Why did you leave off the actual context/point of my question which was: IF YOU UNDERSTAND (as you say): a) no thing is being born; b) you conceive yourself; and c) the illusion is very often desired, THEN please explain why you said... etc.

Do you have no interest in noticing and understanding the disparity or inconsistency in the things you're saying?
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:34 am
I just act in the moment and what comes from me is what happens, I don't know what causes me to be me,or why I say the stuff I say, it just happens.
So, are you possessed? :lol: I mean, I can understand living in the moment and being part of some bigger flow that is beyond my understanding at times, but there's still awareness of a basic frequency that informs/balances me regardless of what I'm going through. I simply don't understand what appears to be blinding extremes for you. I think it would be very interesting to see you have a conversation between the perspectives you hold at times.

What does the "I didn't choose to be born and life is bullshit" perspective SAY TO the "No thing is being born, you conceive yourself, and the illusion is very often desired" perspective?

And what does the "No thing is being born, you conceive yourself, and the illusion is very often desired" perspective SAY TO the "I didn't choose to be born and life is bullshit" perspective?

Can you occupy both perspectives with enough awareness of each of them to answer these questions?

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:38 pm

Lacewing.
I don’t think this conversation between you and I is going anywhere ..I’m getting confused about what you are saying to me, and I’m fairly sure you don’t quite get what I’m saying to you either... I AM CLOSING THIS THREAD.

I just see this entire discussion between you and I is pointless and confusing.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:10 am

Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:25 pm
When you're in the pits, yet finally find a spark of light at the end of the tunnel you just fall back into a deeper hole.. ill figure it out until it's worth living
In other words 'you' really do not know WHY you wish you were never born, correct?

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am

Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.
The principles of logic is, the conclusion is dependent on the first major premise.
Therefore if you allow your grounded premise of life from a dark chasm, that will infect the rest of your life towards destruction.
Note the common saying, 'you are what you believe'.

Therefore using philosophy, wisdom and rationality, it would be more wiser to use reason to force a change to your first premise with optimism rather than helplessness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
Thus one should not allow the idea and wish 'I wish I was never born' to intrude into one's inner consciousness.

The challenge here is to use one's 'higher' reason's faculty to manage and modulate [outwit] the lower emotional impulses.
I believe that is the reason why humans has evolved with a faculty of reason that is more refined than those of the primates and the rest of all animals.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:11 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am
Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.
The principles of logic is, the conclusion is dependent on the first major premise.
Therefore if you allow your grounded premise of life from a dark chasm, that will infect the rest of your life towards destruction.
Note the common saying, 'you are what you believe'.
If 'you', veritas aequitas, actually accepted this yourself, then that would be great.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am
Therefore using philosophy, wisdom and rationality, it would be more wiser to use reason to force a change to your first premise with optimism rather than helplessness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
Thus one should not allow the idea and wish 'I wish I was never born' to intrude into one's inner consciousness.

The challenge here is to use one's 'higher' reason's faculty to manage and modulate [outwit] the lower emotional impulses.
I believe that is the reason why humans has evolved with a faculty of reason that is more refined than those of the primates and the rest of all animals.
And all 'you' are doing "veritas aequitas", in a sense, is just dismissing and rejecting what "another" says, and expecting them to change, into being what you want and expect them to be like.

If a person says some thing like this, then there is A REASON for it. I found it better to find out what the actual REASON IS, from them, so then they have gained some knowledge from them self, which is the best way for them to move forward.

The last thing, I found, that a person wants when they are 'down' is to be told things like; "You should not feel that way and it is better if you do this and do that".

When 'you', human beings, start REALLY Listening to each "other", then you will move forward, instead of moving down that downward spiral 'you' are ALL heading now.

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Lacewing
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Lacewing » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:27 am

Age wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:11 am
The last thing, I found, that a person wants when they are 'down' is to be told things like; "You should not feel that way and it is better if you do this and do that".

When 'you', human beings, start REALLY Listening to each "other", then you will move forward, instead of moving down that downward spiral 'you' are ALL heading now.
And here you are telling us what to do and what not to do.

Move "forward"? Don't move down the downward spiral we are ALL heading now? Ah yes, you think there is a single, linear path in our vast Universe! :lol: Sure... that makes a LOT of sense! :wink: Let's all get on THE path because there's SOMEWHERE TO GO... different and better than where we are, and we should GO THERE. We're evidently not where we're supposed to be, nor doing what we're supposed to be doing... according to Age. The Universe is just a big mess and Age can tell us how it's supposed to be!

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Lacewing
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Lacewing » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:11 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:38 pm
I’m getting confused about what you are saying to me
I was just repeating your words back to you to see if you could step back and observe/explore/explain the disparity between your claims. But I think you've indicated that you want to speak your mind in any given moment without worrying about consistency or continuity with anything else that you've said, is that right? :D

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:14 am

Age wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:11 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am
Atum wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
It completely depends within the individuals perspective of life from their experiences which has manifested whom they are today.

I see the point in living and why it would be worth it, but for me personally, I wish I was never born.
The principles of logic is, the conclusion is dependent on the first major premise.
Therefore if you allow your grounded premise of life from a dark chasm, that will infect the rest of your life towards destruction.
Note the common saying, 'you are what you believe'.
If 'you', veritas aequitas, actually accepted this yourself, then that would be great.
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:00 am
Therefore using philosophy, wisdom and rationality, it would be more wiser to use reason to force a change to your first premise with optimism rather than helplessness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
Thus one should not allow the idea and wish 'I wish I was never born' to intrude into one's inner consciousness.

The challenge here is to use one's 'higher' reason's faculty to manage and modulate [outwit] the lower emotional impulses.
I believe that is the reason why humans has evolved with a faculty of reason that is more refined than those of the primates and the rest of all animals.
And all 'you' are doing "veritas aequitas", in a sense, is just dismissing and rejecting what "another" says, and expecting them to change, into being what you want and expect them to be like.

If a person says some thing like this, then there is A REASON for it. I found it better to find out what the actual REASON IS, from them, so then they have gained some knowledge from them self, which is the best way for them to move forward.

The last thing, I found, that a person wants when they are 'down' is to be told things like; "You should not feel that way and it is better if you do this and do that".

When 'you', human beings, start REALLY Listening to each "other", then you will move forward, instead of moving down that downward spiral 'you' are ALL heading now.
Btw, I don't see this as an individual counselling session.
If so, then I would have approach it with reference to the specific conditions of the individual.

This is an open discussion forum addressing all who read the posts.
What I have proposed is the general theory, relying upon "using philosophy, wisdom and rationality, the end result is the first premise must be changed to a positive one rather than stuck with a pessimistic one.
Note my reference to 'wisdom' which implies a pragmatic approach to optimize the situation in accordance to the prevailing circumstances.

Btw, there are loads of self-developments programs for one to adopt and practice by imputing positive beliefs and attitudes to invoke positive changes.

You are merely an empty vessel who talk too much but provided no pathways to any solutions.

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