SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:34 pm
In the context of Consciousness we do not know if it Exists in the Physical World or Exists only in the Conscious World of our Minds.
Of course we know. You just introduced the word "minds" into the discussion in order to obfuscate the matter further.
P1. The Universe is ALL that exists ( Universe )
P2. Minds exist in the universe. (Minds ∈ Universe)
P3. Consciousness exists in minds (Consciousness ∈ Minds)
C. Therefore Consciousness exists in the Universe. (Consciousnes ∈ Universe)
Which part of Logic 101 is confusing you here?
You seem committed to making the Cartesian Dualism error like a 3 year old is committed to putting their hand on the hot stove over and over.
Do you even possess the instinct of learning from your mistakes?
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:31 pm
Agreed. Consciousness might be found to be some new Phenomenon of the Physical Universe.
OK... you are very confused. In the previous paragraph you were arguing against this very sentence. Now you are agreeing. It's must be hard being a sophist.
We can't find consciousness to be any "newer a phenomenon" than it already is. Consciousness is a phenomenon.
A phenomenon is defined as: a fact or situation that is observed to exist or happen, especially one whose cause or explanation is in question.
Consciousness doesn't get any more "phenomenal" than it already is.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:31 pm
Since It seems unlikely that something like Redness will be found to be made out of some type of Matter or some form of Energy or some aspect of Space, Science will have to acknowledge a new thing Called Redness as a thing in itself.
Well, you are doing science - acknowledge it then. If redness is a noumenon then it can't be a phenomenon, then you can't study it via the scientific method.
It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to explain redness, but you don't want to study it phenomenologically. How do you want to study it then?
But where your confusion really shines: if you already have direct and privileged access to a noumenon, then what explanation are you looking for?
A known noumenon is a contradiction of terms.