Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
gaffo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:47 amrationally-consistent Atheist can say nothing at all about the concepts "good" or "evil."
not true at all!
Good!
Then you can prove me wrong if you can provide even one counterexample, in this kind of way.
The basic Atheist premise is this: "No gods exist." Or, if you prefer, "I lack belief in gods." Or maybe, "I believe in no gods." It makes no difference to what I'm about to say next: they all go to the same point.
The basic Atheists premise means this: that the universe exists without an objective reason or purpose for its existence. Nobody 'intended" anything by creating it, because there's no God. Fair enough?
Well, if there is no intention behind the origin of the universe, then there is also no objective purpose for the things in it. Like the universe itself, they are accidental products of an accidental process, and nothing more.
yes that my view - as person. and athiest.
the later does not define my character.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
If we are accidental product of an accidental universe, then there is no sense in which we can call ourselves or our actions "evil" or "good."
nonsequiter on your part.
man is a moral animal via evolution -as a socialing moral animal - if we lacked morals we would have died out a million years ago.
so reason we are still Tribal/racist/sexist - instead of Global. tech has now outsized our moral DNA.
not saying man is immoral, he us just tribal/racist/sexist - fear of the "other".
we will soon be able to make "man" not tribal - via gen engineering, but imo such product is not longer man in my view.
I have more kin whit a racist human (my GF is not of my race - not that anyone care - vegs makes it a point that i posted she is black 5 times in the last 2 yrs here -s o whatever).
my point is racists are human - though tribal (and good - but not so much being tribal racists) - but still human and worthy of comdemning/educating.
the "next" being via gen engineering may not be human enough to me to relate to nor care about as a "brother".
Nature - natural evolution breeds "one of our own"..................."good" overall.
the next - gentic engineering, will not.
BTW - i do feel for the affect of globalism, i helps mexicans/bangalise while making american working folks poorer,
i can relate, i'm poor too but afiirm natural selection as making us all humans - and globalisation helping others while hurting me moneywise.
as to gen engineered future folks, no, not so kin to call them as folks like me.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
Therefore, Atheism has no way to speak intelligibly of "evil."
nonesence.
man is a socail aminmal via his evolutionary DNA.
any acts that threaten surivival of the collective is "evil"
so murder is "evil"
but not in case of war and self defence - why those cases are not viewed as "evil"? - refer to man the social trible animal per survival ot the collective via evolution.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
For then, no such thing can exist. All there is, is what
is. It's neither right nor wrong: it just
is, it just exists.
no, man is a moral animal - moraliity (and old tribalism/racism - fear of the other) is made in his DNA as the social animal he is.
and the animal - I'm an animal too - not self dissparagement, just stating the fact - and so as a social animal/man was born with "good"/"moral" DNA - like almost all of us human animals.
dochsund included - though a total asshole and unactualized person - his DNA is as moral (maybe more "moral" than mine - who knows.
yes even racist filth have the same moral genes as the rest of us - they are not in accord to self-knowledge, but of the same moral nature as the rest of us).
Dachsund prob had a bad childhood and born with the short staff.............who know or cares (I know his kind, they are at war with themselves - and not evil, just cowards making the rest of us pay for ther self hate).
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
Murder is not right, but it's not wrong.
depends upon motive and circumstances.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
Rape is not right, but not wrong.
ibid. though with less charity off hand on this particular.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
Torture is not right, but not wrong.
ibid, same as rape. most folks will confess to make the pain stop, even if 1 of ten make a true confession rather than a false one to make the pains stop.
I do not condone torchure for any reason myself - even if 1 - in 10 result in a true confession and prevents future death.
but that is just my view - noting false confessions outnumber true one on this accord
(and noting i value a Just Republic (rule of law) - American - instead of a thugocrity).
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
Achievements are not good, but not bad. Kindness is not good, but not bad. Wisdom is neither good nor bad. Nor is anything.
Now, how would you disprove that?
??
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm
It would be easy. Just show that one of these things is the kind of thing that an Atheism would be morally obligated to do by his Atheism.
It would be like this:
"Because the universe is an accidental byproduct of accidental forces, therefore, murder is evil."
But how could any rational person make sense of that?
you bigotry remains, Athiesm only denies your God as existing.
it offers no morality in any way.
your disparagement make me sick to my stomach.
You needn't be dramatic.
I'm not "disparaging" anything. I'm just going step by step, according to Atheism, and showing you where it leads. If you think you can take it to a different destination, show why that's rational. I'd be fine with that.
[/quote]
You are as racist as dochsund in your own way Sir.
look within, your understanding of the nature of Athiesm is WRONG.
Atheism is only a denial of in your belief in your God - nothing more.
some are immoral - same number of immoral as in your camp (if you wish to wage a Jihad - do to toward your asshole Christians wishing death on all others - instead of asshole in my Athiest camp).
if you are of goodwill you will do so, instead of assuming we all hate your God - most of us don;t and couldn't care less, so do - fine - wage your war against then - while you do so against your asshole Christians (you know who they are!). leave me out of it. I'ma peace loving Athiest not at war with your God - be he exist or not.