proposition (1)
Re: proposition (1)
Prior to this post,
- there were 15 posts
- made by 7 posters
- voicing 11 different opinions on
- 1 topic.
Yep. We are philosophers.
- there were 15 posts
- made by 7 posters
- voicing 11 different opinions on
- 1 topic.
Yep. We are philosophers.
- waechter418
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:19 am
- Location: Costa Rica
- Contact:
Re: proposition (1)
I experience thoughts.
My mind.
- waechter418
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:19 am
- Location: Costa Rica
- Contact:
Re: proposition (1)
How about:
mind accumulates and transforms the manifestations of Consciousness - Self is the coordinate and core of mind
mind accumulates and transforms the manifestations of Consciousness - Self is the coordinate and core of mind
Re: proposition (1)
Re: proposition (1)
Agree (but, if you actually look you will find that: the one that thinks he/she experiences thought is also just a thought - in truth, the experiencer can not be found)
So thought experiences thought?
Or is what you call mind more than just a collection of thoughts?
How do you know this mind exists? Isn't it also just thought that states this "truth"?
And... maybe you actually mean consciousness and just call it mind?
Re: proposition (1)
By saying mind is a property of the brain, you mean a possession, or a quality?
If it is a possession, you did not describe it. Similarly to how one can say "These widget-hookers are mine." What are widget-hookers? the sentence gives no clue as to that.
If it is a quality, you are still hedging the defining of the concept. "My house is blue." Okay, but what's blue? Everyone knows what blue is. But here the question is what is mind/consciousness. Questioned in a way which presupposes none of us knows how it is defined. So it is not known, and you come and chime in to say mind / consciousness is / are a quality of the brain. Which tells nothing to a being what mind / consciousness is.
I think you are wrong in saying that your answer is the best. I think mine is. (Which was "none of us know what we are talking about.")
Re: proposition (1)
-1- wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:15 pmWe are all mincing words without a thought to reason.
In other words, I believe none of us knows what we are talking about.
In other words, we have strong opinions on things we care about, but know virtually nothing about.
In nondual terminology, "consciousness" is usually a synonim for the world/all existence/reality/being, experiencing itself/the Absolute. These are all synonimes, everything is consciousness and we are it.
"Mind" roughly refers to a part of the head of a living organism. So the individual mind is a "part" of consciousness, but also one with it without separation.
In Western philosophy English however, consciousness is usually used as a synonim for mind, because of our standard hallucination where we hallucinate that consciousness is "ours", that it's somehow limited to the individual too.
Re: proposition (1)
You have anything to back up these claims? I don't mean books by authorities. I mean by insight or by intuition. Logic. Reason.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:56 am In nondual terminology, "consciousness" is usually a synonim for the world/all existence/reality/being, experiencing itself/the Absolute. These are all synonimes, everything is consciousness and we are it.
"Mind" roughly refers to a part of the head of a living organism. So the individual mind is a "part" of consciousness, but also one with it without separation.
In Western philosophy English however, consciousness is usually used as a synonim for mind, because of our standard hallucination where we hallucinate that consciousness is "ours", that it's somehow limited to the individual too.
What you wrote seems to me as a text by one who bought into the currently modern (but in my opinion stupid) view of declaring consciousness to be a fantasm, an illusion.
I so don't buy that. If it's an illusion, then there is a mind that illudes it. And my mind is my mind. I don't share it with anyone else.
If someone kicks his dog, do you feel the dog's pain? If someone else other than you has an orgasm, do you feel the pleasure? If yes, you're a lucky guy as at any given time of the day there are literally tens of millions of orgasms going on concurrently.
Re: proposition (1)
Consciousness is not an illusion, anyone who claims that doesn't understand.-1- wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 amYou have anything to back up these claims? I don't mean books by authorities. I mean by insight or by intuition. Logic. Reason.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:56 am In nondual terminology, "consciousness" is usually a synonim for the world/all existence/reality/being, experiencing itself/the Absolute. These are all synonimes, everything is consciousness and we are it.
"Mind" roughly refers to a part of the head of a living organism. So the individual mind is a "part" of consciousness, but also one with it without separation.
In Western philosophy English however, consciousness is usually used as a synonim for mind, because of our standard hallucination where we hallucinate that consciousness is "ours", that it's somehow limited to the individual too.
What you wrote seems to me as a text by one who bought into the currently modern (but in my opinion stupid) view of declaring consciousness to be a fantasm, an illusion.
I so don't buy that. If it's an illusion, then there is a mind that illudes it. And my mind is my mind. I don't share it with anyone else.
If someone kicks his dog, do you feel the dog's pain? If someone else other than you has an orgasm, do you feel the pleasure? If yes, you're a lucky guy as at any given time of the day there are literally tens of millions of orgasms going on concurrently.
Re: proposition (1)
By mind, I mean the essence of any being/thing with the ability to experience and cause. I have an argument for the existence of mind: Consider a change in a system, A to B. A and B cannot coexist therefore A has to vanishes before B is caused. There is however nothing when A vanishes and B cannot possibly be caused by nothing. Therefore, there should exist a mind which experiences A and causes B.AlexW wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:49 amAgree (but, if you actually look you will find that: the one that thinks he/she experiences thought is also just a thought - in truth, the experiencer can not be found)
So thought experiences thought?
Or is what you call mind more than just a collection of thoughts?
How do you know this mind exists? Isn't it also just thought that states this "truth"?
And... maybe you actually mean consciousness and just call it mind?
Re: proposition (1)
-1-: You have anything to back up these claims?
-Atla- : Consciousness is not an illusion, anyone who claims that doesn't understand.
-1-: I thought that you wrote the red parts both.
How do you reconcile consciousness being a hallucination with consciousness being a non-hallucination?
And what is a nondual terminology?
At any rate you did not back up your post's claims with anything but saying people don't understand.
Re: proposition (1)
That's not what I wrote. We hallucinate that consciousness belongs to "us", to the "I", to the individual self, that it's somehow limited to the individual mind or the individual brain or something like that.-1- wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:23 pm-1-: You have anything to back up these claims?
-Atla- : Consciousness is not an illusion, anyone who claims that doesn't understand.
-1-: I thought that you wrote the red parts both.
How do you reconcile consciousness being a hallucination with consciousness being a non-hallucination?
And what is a nondual terminology?
At any rate you did not back up your post's claims with anything but saying people don't understand.
But in reality, consciousness is everywhere, it's the same as the world, it's not "ours". With some training one can get rid of the above hallucination.
(And of course 100% of all known evidence supports this view.)
Re: proposition (1)
Lots of evidence supports this view to be false.
If someone kicks his dog, do you feel the dog's pain? If someone else other than you has an orgasm, do you feel the pleasure? If yes, you're a lucky guy as at any given time of the day there are literally tens of millions of orgasms going on concurrently.
Do you have my thoughts? Do you have my feelings? Do you know when I am hungry, horny, tired, have to pee?
I so don't buy this "common consciousness" idea.
If, as you say, 100% of evidence supports this view, then you'd be able to give me three simple instances of the theory's claim, wouldn't you.
So I ask you to please give me three instances of evidence that supports your claim, inasmuch as it is "consciousness is everywhere, it's the same as the world, it's not "ours"".