Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:08 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:52 pm

By asking how Neural Activity produces Redness I am implicitly asking the Deeper question of What is Redness in the first place.
The only question that needs answering is WHY do the '' how questions '' even arise and to WHOM are they arising to and WHY are they arising ?

And WHY don't the other sentient creatures ask questions?

WHY does a question arise in the first place is what really needs to be understood first.

Supposing the question ( how does the Neural Activity produce Redness and what is the Redness in the first place ) is answered. Then what? What will knowing the answer to a question do except create more known knowledge.

Have you noticed that the known cannot know anything and that all that is known is knowledge that knows nothing, informing itself of something which is no thing because things don't know.

Things can be known - but it cannot be known what knows a thing without making the not-knowing a thing known that cannot know anything.

All knowledge does is inform the illusory nature of reality.


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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:08 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:52 pm

By asking how Neural Activity produces Redness I am implicitly asking the Deeper question of What is Redness in the first place.
The only question that needs answering is WHY do the '' how questions '' even arise and to WHOM are they arising to and WHY are they arising ?

And WHY don't the other sentient creatures ask questions?

WHY does a question arise in the first place is what really needs to be understood first.

Supposing the question ( how does the Neural Activity produce Redness and what is the Redness in the first place ) is answered. Then what? What will knowing the answer to a question do except create more known knowledge.

Have you noticed that the known cannot know anything and that all that is known is knowledge that knows nothing, informing itself of something which is no thing because things don't know.

Things can be known - but it cannot be known what knows a thing without making the not-knowing a thing known that cannot know anything.

All knowledge does is inform the illusory nature of reality.


.
Then according to your thinking we should just give up the quest for knowledge. Simply stated, and Imaginary or not, the quest for knowledge is fun. This is what drives Scientists to do what they do.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:02 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 pm
Then according to your thinking we should just give up the quest for knowledge.
No, not give up, because the end of knowledge is the end of the questioneer, and you do not want to come to an end. That's why questions never cease. And while there is a need for a quest i on ..then questions will continue to arise ..but the answer does not want to be known, even though it is available right now when you stop re-questing the urge to quest ...when the i stops being on is when your answer will come quite automatically..

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 pm
Simply stated, and Imaginary or not, the quest for knowledge is fun. This is what drives Scientists to do what they do.
Exactly, and that is the only reason why we do it, it's the only way no thing can entertain itself...

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:02 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 pm
Then according to your thinking we should just give up the quest for knowledge.
No, not give up, because the end of knowledge is the end of the questioneer, and you do not want to come to an end. That's why questions never cease. And while there is a need for a quest i on ..then questions will continue to arise ..but the answer does not want to be known, even though it is available right now when you stop re-questing the urge to quest ...when the i stops being on is when your answer will come quite automatically..

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:14 pm
Simply stated, and Imaginary or not, the quest for knowledge is fun. This is what drives Scientists to do what they do.
Exactly, and that is the only reason why we do it, it's the only way no thing can entertain itself...

.
But from your point of view then, since you don't think there is an independently existing Universe, you cannot have any fun on the Quest.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:50 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 pm
But from your point of view then, since you don't think there is an independently existing Universe, you cannot have any fun on the Quest.
I can if the desire is there.

Intention is the rider of the will.

Where there's a will there's a way.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:50 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 pm
But from your point of view then, since you don't think there is an independently existing Universe, you cannot have any fun on the Quest.
I can if the desire is there.

Intention is the rider of the will.

Where there's a will there's a way.

.
But if you sincerely Understand that there is no external Universe to be understood, why would you ever go on the Quest.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:43 pm
But if you sincerely Understand that there is no external Universe to be understood, why would you ever go on the Quest.
I don't understand anything except what I only think I know even though I don't really know who or what or why there is thinking, or what thought is.

I don't deny there is an external universe, it's just that I have no actual access to it, because it feels like I am the one creating it here in what I already am... I know it instantly only as and when it arises in me, as it becomes known to me.

There is a consciousness aware of it's existence here, but I cannot experience that consciousness because I'm already being it.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:43 pm
But if you sincerely Understand that there is no external Universe to be understood, why would you ever go on the Quest.
I don't understand anything except what I only think I know even though I don't really know who or what or why there is thinking, or what thought is.

I don't deny there is an external universe, it's just that I have no actual access to it, because it feels like I am the one creating it here in what I already am... I know it instantly only as and when it arises in me, as it becomes known to me.

There is a consciousness aware of it's existence here, but I cannot experience that consciousness because I'm already being it.

.
Either you are the One Consciousness or I am the One Consciousness. This means that either you don't exist or I don't exist. I know I exist so I have to be skeptical of your existence. But this is by your way of thinking. By my way of thinking I say we all exist as individual entities.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm
Either you are the One Consciousness or I am the One Consciousness. This means that either you don't exist or I don't exist.
Every I is the same One Consciousness.

But how can ONE I be known?

The one consciousness here cannot know without the same one consciousness there reflecting back upon itself here informing it's existence as an image known..which is actually only ever known here ..as there is only a reflection of here appearing to be there separate from here...but the separation is an illusory split.

A known image there in the form of an object is made here in the subject as a conceptual knowledge known in what was previous unknown.

Consciousness cannot look at itself nor know itself directly without reflecting itself as an image known. ( aka a concept)

Consciousness can only be seen and known aka realised via the concept it knows. Consciousness can only be known to exist as a fictional concept that it itself has self created within itself.
In the same context a spider creates a web from the threads spun out of it's own being.

Consciousness can only become known to itself as and through it's own projected image of itself. The known image however has no knowledge of itself independantly of it's knower projecter projecting the image, because all images are already being known by the projector itself.

Consciousness knows itself as and through it's own mental construction as imaged, even though the image is just as empty as the one projecting it..it only appears to be full when it is given an identity aka a word, which is also empty because a word is just sound and light heard as words.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm
I know I exist so I have to be skeptical of your existence. But this is by your way of thinking. By my way of thinking I say we all exist as individual entities.
This is not known via the thinking intellect which obscures what is actally being pointed to...aka consciousness without an object.

Consciousness does not need an object to be, but an object needs consciousness to be, because an object is a reflection which needs a reflector that has to be first and fundamental prior to the reflection, and knows the reflection as and when it arises. The reflection is the mind which is objective aspect of consciousness already couched within consciousness ..mind can be latent or active...the mind can know itself via the thing it knows by identifying with it's own created known thing aka a concept known to it only..and is why knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality...because in essence all that is known is emptiness knowing itself, appearing to be full...aka some thing.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm
Either you are the One Consciousness or I am the One Consciousness. This means that either you don't exist or I don't exist.
Every I is the same One Consciousness.

But how can ONE I be known?

The one consciousness here cannot know without the same one consciousness there reflecting back upon itself here informing it's existence as an image known..which is actually only ever known here ..as there is only a reflection of here appearing to be there separate from here...but the separation is an illusory split.

A known image there in the form of an object is made here in the subject as a conceptual knowledge known in what was previous unknown.

Consciousness cannot look at itself nor know itself directly without reflecting itself as an image known. ( aka a concept)

Consciousness can only be seen and known aka realised via the concept it knows. Consciousness can only be known to exist as a fictional concept that it itself has self created within itself.
In the same context a spider creates a web from the threads spun out of it's own being.

Consciousness can only become known to itself as and through it's own projected image of itself. The known image however has no knowledge of itself independantly of it's knower projecter projecting the image, because all images are already being known by the projector itself.

Consciousness knows itself as and through it's own mental construction as imaged, even though the image is just as empty as the one projecting it..it only appears to be full when it is given an identity aka a word, which is also empty because a word is just sound and light heard as words.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm
I know I exist so I have to be skeptical of your existence. But this is by your way of thinking. By my way of thinking I say we all exist as individual entities.
This is not known via the thinking intellect which obscures what is actally being pointed to...aka consciousness without an object.

Consciousness does not need an object to be, but an object needs consciousness to be, because an object is a reflection which needs a reflector that has to be first and fundamental prior to the reflection, and knows the reflection as and when it arises. The reflection is the mind which is objective aspect of consciousness already couched within consciousness ..mind can be latent or active...the mind can know itself via the thing it knows by identifying with it's own created known thing aka a concept known to it only..and is why knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality...because in essence all that is known is emptiness knowing itself, appearing to be full...aka some thing.

.
Let me ask this: Do you believe that there is no Universe out there with 100 billion Galaxies and 100 billion Star systems in each Galaxy and a dozen Planets orbiting each Star?

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:47 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:41 pm
Let me ask this: Do you believe that there is no Universe out there with 100 billion Galaxies and 100 billion Star systems in each Galaxy and a dozen Planets orbiting each Star?
I know nothing of what is being me right now.

There is no knowledge of any thing without a word informing what I cannot know.

Whom is being informed?..I have no idea, except in this conception.

I know of no inside or outside of me...I am the zero point of infinity whose centre is everywhere, and whose circumference is nowhere. From source to source an endless spring. Circular to be precise.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:58 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:47 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:41 pm
Let me ask this: Do you believe that there is no Universe out there with 100 billion Galaxies and 100 billion Star systems in each Galaxy and a dozen Planets orbiting each Star?
I know nothing of what is being me right now.

There is no knowledge of any thing without a word informing what I cannot know.

Whom is being informed?..I have no idea, except in this conception.

I know of no inside or outside of me...I am the zero point of infinity whose centre is everywhere, and whose circumference is nowhere. From source to source an endless spring. Circular to be precise.

.
I guess that means yes.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:30 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:58 am
I guess that means yes.
It means everything you know is TRUTH...simply because you are knowing the thing you know.

You are the unknown author of your known story, it's a paradox divine. The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

.

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:30 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:58 am
I guess that means yes.
It means everything you know is TRUTH...simply because you are knowing the thing you know.

You are the unknown author of your known story, it's a paradox divine. The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

.

.
One is the loneliest Philosophy that there ever was ...

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Re: Consciousness IS - but it's NOT a ''Conscious Experience''

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:44 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:44 pm
One is the loneliest Philosophy that there ever was ...
Yep, one is the loneliest number, from one all else comes, many of the one, lonely, but not. The mind is an empty mirror ball.

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