are you suggesting that light travels on shelves? the ether will be shattered...
-Imp
Thought is Sourced in what is always this Immediate Nondual Thoughtless Unknown Irrefutable Presence of Being.
Only 'thoughts' are known. There is no knowledge of the thinker of thought because the thinker too is a thought.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:39 am Except of course if what you you say is true then you couldn't know it is as what you say is just a thought. That is, Kant would then be right and any idea about what the Noumena is, Awareness, a Sim 'God', etc is just metaphysical wishful thinking. Unless of course I have got the wrong end of your stick and you are not proposing this 'Awareness' as an entity outside of us?
You ARE the Awareness..aka Consciousness. How would it be "outside" of us???Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:39 am Except of course if what you you say is true then you couldn't know it is as what you say is just a thought. That is, Kant would then be right and any idea about what the Noumena is, Awareness, a Sim 'God', etc is just metaphysical wishful thinking. Unless of course I have got the wrong end of your stick and you are not proposing this 'Awareness' as an entity outside of us?
I know I am a conscious awareness, I also know there is at least one other awareness conscious like me but DAM, and presumably you, appear to be claiming that there is only one Awareness in reality and in fact it and that is reality. As such I think it nonsense. But maybe I am misunderstanding what is being claimed?Ramu wrote:
You ARE the Awareness..aka Consciousness. How would it be "outside" of us???
The fact you can use "me" should make you blush but maybe I have the wrong end of your schtick, so are you claiming that there is only this Awareness in reality and in fact reality is this Awareness and there is nothing else other than this Awareness? If so then I think it absolute nonsense as any 'Awareneas' needs an other to be aware of.Dontaskme wrote:...
The statement made that there is an assumed 'Awareness' as an entity outside of us? makes absolutely no sense to me.
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There is only one Consciousness. Not two or more just One. Call it Awareness, Source, Being or God. This is not a Theological argument. I'm not by ANY means arguing for the Christian version of God...i.e.the man with the White beard in the clouds who is separate from us and judges us. I'm talking about Non duality. Source as formlessness. You are that Source. There is only One. It is infinite and eternal. It was not born nor will it die. It's not "out there somewhere". It's right here right now right in front of you. However those stuck in the materialist/physicalist paradigm will never get it.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pmI know I am a conscious awareness, I also know there is at least one other awareness conscious like me but DAM, and presumably you, appear to be claiming that there is only one Awareness in reality and in fact it and that is reality. As such I think it nonsense. But maybe I am misunderstanding what is being claimed?Ramu wrote:
You ARE the Awareness..aka Consciousness. How would it be "outside" of us???
Don't confuse "nothing" with non existence. Nothing is No Thing. It's not non existence. The No Thing is so empty that it fills up with Everything. Two sides of the same coin that is Being.surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 pm
There is no knowledge of the thinker of thought because the thinker is a thought too
I can just about understand this as a concept [ it is very counter intuitive ] but I do not think it is how reality actually is
Everything cannot merely be an illusion arising out of nothing because then it would literally mean nothing truly existed
Existence is an eternal state and since existence cannot not exist then absolute nothing cannot exist too
A true state of absolute nothing in reality could never be sustained just because it would be too unstable
I'll give you an analogy. Someone could ask about an image on a TV: There is Electronics inside the TV that makes this Image but how does the Electronics do that? Your answer would be to say: The Electronics IS the Image. I would say Big Explanatory Gap.Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:44 pmPerfect transference. I think a psychologist would have fun with you. My analogies are fine. It is you that is obfuscating. You can try to counter obfuscate but my points remain.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:40 amThese analogies are Diversions and Obfuscations from the question. Gravity and War have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Specifically with regard to Conscious Experience: What is the Redness of Red? I reject your belief that Science cannot study this. When you say: Nothing is going to show "ACTUAL consciousness" you are professing to know something about Consciousness that you don't really know. There is nothing that rings more hollow than the statement: Neural Activity is Consciousness. There is a huge Explanatory Gap in that statement and it is mind boggling that you don't see it.Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:08 pm
What sort of proof is going to satisfy you? None.
Neural activity is consciousness.
Nothing is going to show "ACTUAL consciousness". All science is representation. War & Peace does not show actual War. A falling apple does not show actual gravity. Trump does not show actual thinking.
Yes of course science can study consciousness. What I said is that it cannot DIRECTLY "Show" it. It cannot show it anymore than it can show gravity. And obfuscate how ever much you like that is what science does; its a system of metaphors and representations.
Neural activity is consciousness. Please demonstrate a gap! I won't hold my breath.
Because acceleration towards a large mass is gravity is what science has given us, and it is perfectly consistent with my statement on neural activity.
It's a very poor analogy.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:27 pmI'll give you an analogy. Someone could ask about an image on a TV: There is Electronics inside the TV that makes this Image but how does the Electronics do that? Your answer would be to say: The Electronics IS the Image. I would say Big Explanatory Gap.Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:44 pmPerfect transference. I think a psychologist would have fun with you. My analogies are fine. It is you that is obfuscating. You can try to counter obfuscate but my points remain.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:40 am These analogies are Diversions and Obfuscations from the question. Gravity and War have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Specifically with regard to Conscious Experience: What is the Redness of Red? I reject your belief that Science cannot study this. When you say: Nothing is going to show "ACTUAL consciousness" you are professing to know something about Consciousness that you don't really know. There is nothing that rings more hollow than the statement: Neural Activity is Consciousness. There is a huge Explanatory Gap in that statement and it is mind boggling that you don't see it.
Yes of course science can study consciousness. What I said is that it cannot DIRECTLY "Show" it. It cannot show it anymore than it can show gravity. And obfuscate how ever much you like that is what science does; its a system of metaphors and representations.
Neural activity is consciousness. Please demonstrate a gap! I won't hold my breath.
Because acceleration towards a large mass is gravity is what science has given us, and it is perfectly consistent with my statement on neural activity.
So you really do think saying that the Electronics IS the Image is a good Explanation? Go try to fix a TV with that kind of understanding.Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:31 pmIt's a very poor analogy.SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:27 pmI'll give you an analogy. Someone could ask about an image on a TV: There is Electronics inside the TV that makes this Image but how does the Electronics do that? Your answer would be to say: The Electronics IS the Image. I would say Big Explanatory Gap.Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:44 pm
Perfect transference. I think a psychologist would have fun with you. My analogies are fine. It is you that is obfuscating. You can try to counter obfuscate but my points remain.
Yes of course science can study consciousness. What I said is that it cannot DIRECTLY "Show" it. It cannot show it anymore than it can show gravity. And obfuscate how ever much you like that is what science does; its a system of metaphors and representations.
Neural activity is consciousness. Please demonstrate a gap! I won't hold my breath.
Because acceleration towards a large mass is gravity is what science has given us, and it is perfectly consistent with my statement on neural activity.
The TV image (as seen by spectators) is analogous to the speech and gestures of the human body, which are all generated by neural activity.