That which is chaotic cannot be known.

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Systematic
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That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am

I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.

commonsense
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by commonsense » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:31 pm

Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am

I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success.
Money and power are measurements of success, not the only ones, but not mirages.
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome.
Success is a characteristic of past history and current status, regardless of the future.
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person.
No, only for people with OCD. Look it up on the DSM.
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
...life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
Or you might.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:08 pm

Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
1. Chaos is disorder.

2. Disorder is the absence of structure.

3. Structure is the unity of being. (For example a bird exists as a bird because of a unity of parts, a molecule as molecule, or any classification as a unified group of classifications as one).

4. Absence of structure, as chaos, is the absence of unity in being where one being exists as many beings that are not one. Chaos is separation, as fragmentation.

5. Chaos as fragmentation requires a multiplicity of parts of a whole separated from eachother; however these parts are whole in themselves, thus requiring chaos to occur through base units.

6. All base units at there relatively smallest appear as points, at there relatively largest are composed of points. The base unit of all phenomenon is a point in space.

7. The point is the fundamental particle of all phenomenon, with all phenomenon existing relativistically as a point in and of itself. This is considering, relativistically all parts are wholes in and of themselves and all wholes are parts of another whole. The constant nature of the part and whole is they both exist as and through point units.

8. Chaos as multiplicity is a multiplicity of point particles (not to be limited to the standard point particle concept in physics, but neither against it either). However this multiplicity of point oar it particles, grounded in a constant never changing unit, necessitates all chaos is strictly an approximation of order by observing one constant through infinite variation.

9. The variation of one point to another, with all points fundamentally being the same considering a point is a point, necessitates variation through the seperstion of points is the creation of space. This is grounded in the premise that one point turned to many requires the creation of space between the points much in the same manner where one point projecting away from another always requires a base linear direction of projection equivalent to time as a process of definition. The space between the points is the grounding of time, with eachother point being defined as a point through the other because of the space between them. Time is a process of definition in these respects with time requiring a form of multiplication and division making it synonymous too chaos.

10. Time is definition through multiplication/division of phenomenon, with these phenomenon existing as and through point particles, with multiplication and division resulting in the inherent multiplicity that is required for chaos to exists.

11. Chaos exists through multiplication/division, however the base nature of multiplication/division requires a change from one to many. "One to many", observed either in the number line, cell replication, or one word inverting to another, requires a base dualism as the movement from one to two. Chaos is grounded in dualism with this dualism being grounded in one act of inversion. Dualism as one act of separation thus necessitates a foundation in the linearprojection of one point to another. This linear projection requires chaos to be grounded in a simple line as a boundary of division, as evidenced by a simple point projecting to another point requires a base euclidean one directional linear movement. Chaos is definitive in nature, and results in definition.

12. Chaos as definitive, much in the same intuitive manner where we speak of "testing something by fire" or some trial of chaos giving "definition to one's character", necessitates chaos existing through a simple line because of its grounding in the projection of one state into many states through time. Chaos is linear and progressive in nature, thus reflecting certain chaotic factors in societal change due to the progressive nature of modern modes of being through ever variation technological and ethical changes.

13. Chaos is grounded in recursion, as the replication of points in space (with these points again being empirical or abstract as argued above.) This replication exists through a process of inversion one one to many and the many as one. Where 1 point may invert to many points, this process of inversion necessitate itself as a point relativistically either as a concept or empirical phenomenon (where "inversion" is strictly a point particle of a concept or the basic line is a simple point relative to much larger lines).

14. The point exists as nothing it itself in these respects and as such where it exists as 1 quantifiable phenomenon it also exists as 0 phenomenon considering the process of inversion is an absence of being conducive to zero. This can be observe quantitatively in math as "1=0", the Buddhist philosophical concept of "being is void", or the Christian (and pagan) theology of God Dying or becoming nothing through an act forgetting forgetting synonymous to death.

15. The basic point particle, or the point is a universal axiom and applies to all empirical and abstract phenomenon (whether observing a simple stone as compose of points or as a point at a distance or an argument existing as a rational point of awareness composed of other points of awareness), thus requiring order to be inevitable with chaos where chaos is less of a thing in itself but rather a state of definition.

16. Order is inevitable, but it is not necessary for being to exist being of its premise in the universal axiom of the "point (particle(s))".

commonsense
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by commonsense » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:15 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:08 pm
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
1. Chaos is disorder.

2. Disorder is the absence of structure.

3. Structure is the unity of being. (For example a bird exists as a bird because of a unity of parts, a molecule as molecule, or any classification as a unified group of classifications as one).

4. Absence of structure, as chaos, is the absence of unity in being where one being exists as many beings that are not one. Chaos is separation, as fragmentation.

5. Chaos as fragmentation requires a multiplicity of parts of a whole separated from eachother; however these parts are whole in themselves, thus requiring chaos to occur through base units.

6. All base units at there relatively smallest appear as points, at there relatively largest are composed of points. The base unit of all phenomenon is a point in space.

7. The point is the fundamental particle of all phenomenon, with all phenomenon existing relativistically as a point in and of itself. This is considering, relativistically all parts are wholes in and of themselves and all wholes are parts of another whole. The constant nature of the part and whole is they both exist as and through point units.

8. Chaos as multiplicity is a multiplicity of point particles (not to be limited to the standard point particle concept in physics, but neither against it either). However this multiplicity of point oar it particles, grounded in a constant never changing unit, necessitates all chaos is strictly an approximation of order by observing one constant through infinite variation.

9. The variation of one point to another, with all points fundamentally being the same considering a point is a point, necessitates variation through the seperstion of points is the creation of space. This is grounded in the premise that one point turned to many requires the creation of space between the points much in the same manner where one point projecting away from another always requires a base linear direction of projection equivalent to time as a process of definition. The space between the points is the grounding of time, with eachother point being defined as a point through the other because of the space between them. Time is a process of definition in these respects with time requiring a form of multiplication and division making it synonymous too chaos.

10. Time is definition through multiplication/division of phenomenon, with these phenomenon existing as and through point particles, with multiplication and division resulting in the inherent multiplicity that is required for chaos to exists.

11. Chaos exists through multiplication/division, however the base nature of multiplication/division requires a change from one to many. "One to many", observed either in the number line, cell replication, or one word inverting to another, requires a base dualism as the movement from one to two. Chaos is grounded in dualism with this dualism being grounded in one act of inversion. Dualism as one act of separation thus necessitates a foundation in the linearprojection of one point to another. This linear projection requires chaos to be grounded in a simple line as a boundary of division, as evidenced by a simple point projecting to another point requires a base euclidean one directional linear movement. Chaos is definitive in nature, and results in definition.

12. Chaos as definitive, much in the same intuitive manner where we speak of "testing something by fire" or some trial of chaos giving "definition to one's character", necessitates chaos existing through a simple line because of its grounding in the projection of one state into many states through time. Chaos is linear and progressive in nature, thus reflecting certain chaotic factors in societal change due to the progressive nature of modern modes of being through ever variation technological and ethical changes.

13. Chaos is grounded in recursion, as the replication of points in space (with these points again being empirical or abstract as argued above.) This replication exists through a process of inversion one one to many and the many as one. Where 1 point may invert to many points, this process of inversion necessitate itself as a point relativistically either as a concept or empirical phenomenon (where "inversion" is strictly a point particle of a concept or the basic line is a simple point relative to much larger lines).

14. The point exists as nothing it itself in these respects and as such where it exists as 1 quantifiable phenomenon it also exists as 0 phenomenon considering the process of inversion is an absence of being conducive to zero. This can be observe quantitatively in math as "1=0", the Buddhist philosophical concept of "being is void", or the Christian (and pagan) theology of God Dying or becoming nothing through an act forgetting forgetting synonymous to death.

15. The basic point particle, or the point is a universal axiom and applies to all empirical and abstract phenomenon (whether observing a simple stone as compose of points or as a point at a distance or an argument existing as a rational point of awareness composed of other points of awareness), thus requiring order to be inevitable with chaos where chaos is less of a thing in itself but rather a state of definition.

16. Order is inevitable, but it is not necessary for being to exist being of its premise in the universal axiom of the "point (particle(s))".
???

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:35 pm

commonsense wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:15 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:08 pm
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
1. Chaos is disorder.

2. Disorder is the absence of structure.

3. Structure is the unity of being. (For example a bird exists as a bird because of a unity of parts, a molecule as molecule, or any classification as a unified group of classifications as one).

4. Absence of structure, as chaos, is the absence of unity in being where one being exists as many beings that are not one. Chaos is separation, as fragmentation.

5. Chaos as fragmentation requires a multiplicity of parts of a whole separated from eachother; however these parts are whole in themselves, thus requiring chaos to occur through base units.

6. All base units at there relatively smallest appear as points, at there relatively largest are composed of points. The base unit of all phenomenon is a point in space.

7. The point is the fundamental particle of all phenomenon, with all phenomenon existing relativistically as a point in and of itself. This is considering, relativistically all parts are wholes in and of themselves and all wholes are parts of another whole. The constant nature of the part and whole is they both exist as and through point units.

8. Chaos as multiplicity is a multiplicity of point particles (not to be limited to the standard point particle concept in physics, but neither against it either). However this multiplicity of point oar it particles, grounded in a constant never changing unit, necessitates all chaos is strictly an approximation of order by observing one constant through infinite variation.

9. The variation of one point to another, with all points fundamentally being the same considering a point is a point, necessitates variation through the seperstion of points is the creation of space. This is grounded in the premise that one point turned to many requires the creation of space between the points much in the same manner where one point projecting away from another always requires a base linear direction of projection equivalent to time as a process of definition. The space between the points is the grounding of time, with eachother point being defined as a point through the other because of the space between them. Time is a process of definition in these respects with time requiring a form of multiplication and division making it synonymous too chaos.

10. Time is definition through multiplication/division of phenomenon, with these phenomenon existing as and through point particles, with multiplication and division resulting in the inherent multiplicity that is required for chaos to exists.

11. Chaos exists through multiplication/division, however the base nature of multiplication/division requires a change from one to many. "One to many", observed either in the number line, cell replication, or one word inverting to another, requires a base dualism as the movement from one to two. Chaos is grounded in dualism with this dualism being grounded in one act of inversion. Dualism as one act of separation thus necessitates a foundation in the linearprojection of one point to another. This linear projection requires chaos to be grounded in a simple line as a boundary of division, as evidenced by a simple point projecting to another point requires a base euclidean one directional linear movement. Chaos is definitive in nature, and results in definition.

12. Chaos as definitive, much in the same intuitive manner where we speak of "testing something by fire" or some trial of chaos giving "definition to one's character", necessitates chaos existing through a simple line because of its grounding in the projection of one state into many states through time. Chaos is linear and progressive in nature, thus reflecting certain chaotic factors in societal change due to the progressive nature of modern modes of being through ever variation technological and ethical changes.

13. Chaos is grounded in recursion, as the replication of points in space (with these points again being empirical or abstract as argued above.) This replication exists through a process of inversion one one to many and the many as one. Where 1 point may invert to many points, this process of inversion necessitate itself as a point relativistically either as a concept or empirical phenomenon (where "inversion" is strictly a point particle of a concept or the basic line is a simple point relative to much larger lines).

14. The point exists as nothing it itself in these respects and as such where it exists as 1 quantifiable phenomenon it also exists as 0 phenomenon considering the process of inversion is an absence of being conducive to zero. This can be observe quantitatively in math as "1=0", the Buddhist philosophical concept of "being is void", or the Christian (and pagan) theology of God Dying or becoming nothing through an act forgetting forgetting synonymous to death.

15. The basic point particle, or the point is a universal axiom and applies to all empirical and abstract phenomenon (whether observing a simple stone as compose of points or as a point at a distance or an argument existing as a rational point of awareness composed of other points of awareness), thus requiring order to be inevitable with chaos where chaos is less of a thing in itself but rather a state of definition.

16. Order is inevitable, but it is not necessary for being to exist being of its premise in the universal axiom of the "point (particle(s))".
???
Pick the point where your confusion begins...as in you started reading at one spot and got lost at another spot and cannot continue because of it.

Systematic
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:06 pm

commonsense wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:31 pm
1. Money and power are measurements of success, not the only ones, but not mirages.

2. Success is a characteristic of past history and current status, regardless of the future.

3. No, only for people with OCD. Look it up on the DSM.

4. Or you might.
1. Money and power are used to impose order on people, affecting only what people can control.

2. I am defining success as having the capacity to get what one wants to get. I am proposing that success in that narrow definition requires order beyond what factually exists, but there is the potential for order to be made from the chaos.

3. That the normal psyche is prepared to inhabit chaos does not make chaos desirable per se. And most of the adaptation of humanity to chaos requires profuse amounts of practice to master. .switch procedures when confuse people And

4. May the odds be ever in your favor III.

Systematic
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:29 am

Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:07 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:08 pm
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
1. Chaos is disorder.

2. Disorder is the absence of structure.

3. Structure is the unity of being. (For example a bird exists as a bird because of a unity of parts, a molecule as molecule, or any classification as a unified group of classifications as one).

4. Absence of structure, as chaos, is the absence of unity in being where one being exists as many beings that are not one. Chaos is separation, as fragmentation.

5. Chaos as fragmentation requires a multiplicity of parts of a whole separated from eachother; however these parts are whole in themselves, thus requiring chaos to occur through base units.

6. All base units at there relatively smallest appear as points, at there relatively largest are composed of points. The base unit of all phenomenon is a point in space.

7. The point is the fundamental particle of all phenomenon, with all phenomenon existing relativistically as a point in and of itself. This is considering, relativistically all parts are wholes in and of themselves and all wholes are parts of another whole. The constant nature of the part and whole is they both exist as and through point units.

8. Chaos as multiplicity is a multiplicity of point particles (not to be limited to the standard point particle concept in physics, but neither against it either). However this multiplicity of point oar it particles, grounded in a constant never changing unit, necessitates all chaos is strictly an approximation of order by observing one constant through infinite variation.

9. The variation of one point to another, with all points fundamentally being the same considering a point is a point, necessitates variation through the seperstion of points is the creation of space. This is grounded in the premise that one point turned to many requires the creation of space between the points much in the same manner where one point projecting away from another always requires a base linear direction of projection equivalent to time as a process of definition. The space between the points is the grounding of time, with eachother point being defined as a point through the other because of the space between them. Time is a process of definition in these respects with time requiring a form of multiplication and division making it synonymous too chaos.

10. Time is definition through multiplication/division of phenomenon, with these phenomenon existing as and through point particles, with multiplication and division resulting in the inherent multiplicity that is required for chaos to exists.

11. Chaos exists through multiplication/division, however the base nature of multiplication/division requires a change from one to many. "One to many", observed either in the number line, cell replication, or one word inverting to another, requires a base dualism as the movement from one to two. Chaos is grounded in dualism with this dualism being grounded in one act of inversion. Dualism as one act of separation thus necessitates a foundation in the linearprojection of one point to another. This linear projection requires chaos to be grounded in a simple line as a boundary of division, as evidenced by a simple point projecting to another point requires a base euclidean one directional linear movement. Chaos is definitive in nature, and results in definition.

12. Chaos as definitive, much in the same intuitive manner where we speak of "testing something by fire" or some trial of chaos giving "definition to one's character", necessitates chaos existing through a simple line because of its grounding in the projection of one state into many states through time. Chaos is linear and progressive in nature, thus reflecting certain chaotic factors in societal change due to the progressive nature of modern modes of being through ever variation technological and ethical changes.

13. Chaos is grounded in recursion, as the replication of points in space (with these points again being empirical or abstract as argued above.) This replication exists through a process of inversion one one to many and the many as one. Where 1 point may invert to many points, this process of inversion necessitate itself as a point relativistically either as a concept or empirical phenomenon (where "inversion" is strictly a point particle of a concept or the basic line is a simple point relative to much larger lines).

14. The point exists as nothing it itself in these respects and as such where it exists as 1 quantifiable phenomenon it also exists as 0 phenomenon considering the process of inversion is an absence of being conducive to zero. This can be observe quantitatively in math as "1=0", the Buddhist philosophical concept of "being is void", or the Christian (and pagan) theology of God Dying or becoming nothing through an act forgetting forgetting synonymous to death.

15. The basic point particle, or the point is a universal axiom and applies to all empirical and abstract phenomenon (whether observing a simple stone as compose of points or as a point at a distance or an argument existing as a rational point of awareness composed of other points of awareness), thus requiring order to be inevitable with chaos where chaos is less of a thing in itself but rather a state of definition.

16. Order is inevitable, but it is not necessary for being to exist being of its premise in the universal axiom of the "point (particle(s))".
Very rebellious. You have proven that you don't have to submit to my orders. But it was a suggestion -- not an imperative. Although, you do make an excellent point, in that, philosophy often degrades into imperatives/coercion.

Systematic
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am

Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
So to elaborate: The universe is ordered by the laws of physics and by geometric constraints--the theory that is known in all cases. You will never find a break in the cause and effect that corresponds to physics and geometry (I am lumping chemistry into physics).

In addition to the laws that are impossible to break, there is the changeable world that is so complex that it defies prediction. Think about grains of sand on the beach. There is a definite order to them. They don't hover, because they must obey the rules of gravity (physics). They don't will themselves to move, because they are inert.

But their order is highly random. There are an infinite amount of sizes and shapes of the grains of sand. So if you were to pick up a grain of sand (a cause) you might get any one of a variety of shapes and sizes (an unknown effect).

And if there be too many things that you cause that have an unknown effect, no one can predict it. So what I was proposing was to order the random and chaotic (sort of like the laws of physics impose order) so that you will know what the effects will be for different actions.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm

Systematic wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:07 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:08 pm
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
1. Chaos is disorder.

2. Disorder is the absence of structure.

3. Structure is the unity of being. (For example a bird exists as a bird because of a unity of parts, a molecule as molecule, or any classification as a unified group of classifications as one).

4. Absence of structure, as chaos, is the absence of unity in being where one being exists as many beings that are not one. Chaos is separation, as fragmentation.

5. Chaos as fragmentation requires a multiplicity of parts of a whole separated from eachother; however these parts are whole in themselves, thus requiring chaos to occur through base units.

6. All base units at there relatively smallest appear as points, at there relatively largest are composed of points. The base unit of all phenomenon is a point in space.

7. The point is the fundamental particle of all phenomenon, with all phenomenon existing relativistically as a point in and of itself. This is considering, relativistically all parts are wholes in and of themselves and all wholes are parts of another whole. The constant nature of the part and whole is they both exist as and through point units.

8. Chaos as multiplicity is a multiplicity of point particles (not to be limited to the standard point particle concept in physics, but neither against it either). However this multiplicity of point oar it particles, grounded in a constant never changing unit, necessitates all chaos is strictly an approximation of order by observing one constant through infinite variation.

9. The variation of one point to another, with all points fundamentally being the same considering a point is a point, necessitates variation through the seperstion of points is the creation of space. This is grounded in the premise that one point turned to many requires the creation of space between the points much in the same manner where one point projecting away from another always requires a base linear direction of projection equivalent to time as a process of definition. The space between the points is the grounding of time, with eachother point being defined as a point through the other because of the space between them. Time is a process of definition in these respects with time requiring a form of multiplication and division making it synonymous too chaos.

10. Time is definition through multiplication/division of phenomenon, with these phenomenon existing as and through point particles, with multiplication and division resulting in the inherent multiplicity that is required for chaos to exists.

11. Chaos exists through multiplication/division, however the base nature of multiplication/division requires a change from one to many. "One to many", observed either in the number line, cell replication, or one word inverting to another, requires a base dualism as the movement from one to two. Chaos is grounded in dualism with this dualism being grounded in one act of inversion. Dualism as one act of separation thus necessitates a foundation in the linearprojection of one point to another. This linear projection requires chaos to be grounded in a simple line as a boundary of division, as evidenced by a simple point projecting to another point requires a base euclidean one directional linear movement. Chaos is definitive in nature, and results in definition.

12. Chaos as definitive, much in the same intuitive manner where we speak of "testing something by fire" or some trial of chaos giving "definition to one's character", necessitates chaos existing through a simple line because of its grounding in the projection of one state into many states through time. Chaos is linear and progressive in nature, thus reflecting certain chaotic factors in societal change due to the progressive nature of modern modes of being through ever variation technological and ethical changes.

13. Chaos is grounded in recursion, as the replication of points in space (with these points again being empirical or abstract as argued above.) This replication exists through a process of inversion one one to many and the many as one. Where 1 point may invert to many points, this process of inversion necessitate itself as a point relativistically either as a concept or empirical phenomenon (where "inversion" is strictly a point particle of a concept or the basic line is a simple point relative to much larger lines).

14. The point exists as nothing it itself in these respects and as such where it exists as 1 quantifiable phenomenon it also exists as 0 phenomenon considering the process of inversion is an absence of being conducive to zero. This can be observe quantitatively in math as "1=0", the Buddhist philosophical concept of "being is void", or the Christian (and pagan) theology of God Dying or becoming nothing through an act forgetting forgetting synonymous to death.

15. The basic point particle, or the point is a universal axiom and applies to all empirical and abstract phenomenon (whether observing a simple stone as compose of points or as a point at a distance or an argument existing as a rational point of awareness composed of other points of awareness), thus requiring order to be inevitable with chaos where chaos is less of a thing in itself but rather a state of definition.

16. Order is inevitable, but it is not necessary for being to exist being of its premise in the universal axiom of the "point (particle(s))".
Very rebellious. You have proven that you don't have to submit to my orders. But it was a suggestion -- not an imperative. Although, you do make an excellent point, in that, philosophy often degrades into imperatives/coercion.
Yes, you are absolutely correct about imperatives...or rather authority statements.

Take the fallacy of authority for example...this is an authority statement.

All philosophical argument, as an act of creation, is a statement of order where existence acts as it's own authoritative structure over the absence of being "void", by it's own nature. In these respects it takes on a Neitzchian expression of the will by form alone.

Platonic forms, observes the trillemic nature of all arguments, are inseparable from an irrational will with this irrationality being a synonym to "continuum" where all forms are irrational in the respect of this continuous nature is never fully define.

I may have to elaborate this point.
Last edited by Eodnhoj7 on Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:30 pm

Systematic wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am
Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
So to elaborate: The universe is ordered by the laws of physics and by geometric constraints--the theory that is known in all cases. You will never find a break in the cause and effect that corresponds to physics and geometry (I am lumping chemistry into physics).

In addition to the laws that are impossible to break, there is the changeable world that is so complex that it defies prediction. Think about grains of sand on the beach. There is a definite order to them. They don't hover, because they must obey the rules of gravity (physics). They don't will themselves to move, because they are inert.

But their order is highly random. There are an infinite amount of sizes and shapes of the grains of sand. So if you were to pick up a grain of sand (a cause) you might get any one of a variety of shapes and sizes (an unknown effect).

And if there be too many things that you cause that have an unknown effect, no one can predict it. So what I was proposing was to order the random and chaotic (sort of like the laws of physics impose order) so that you will know what the effects will be for different actions.
There are an infinite number of straight lines, however there is no same line because the difference in length. Each length is a ratio or part of the original line; hence all lines are fractals/fractions of the original.

The chaos is a variation, but this variation is a repetition of the same phenomenon considering each line on it's own is effectively still the same line...it only differs relative to another line.

Chaos is multiplictiy of the same phenomenon. Unity is order. Thus the dualism between order and chaos is a dualism in properties of measurment: unity and multiplicity.

Prediction is an observation of order by the observation of recurssion, where the repetition of certain patterns effectively necessitate one underlying pattern.

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A_Seagull
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by A_Seagull » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:45 pm

Systematic wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:50 am
I believe that we, the human race, have been mistaken in our quest for money and power. Those two are the mirages of success. We cannot be successful in any endeavor of which we cannot know the outcome. It might just vanish tomorrow. The only way to know the outcome ahead of time is for there to be order. The only way for there to be order, is for humanity to forge order from the chaos. Order is the true gold. Order ensures success to any sensible person. Otherwise logic is useless for all but puzzles, and life is just a box of chocolates; and you might not like what you get.
You seem to be lost.

Impenitent
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Impenitent » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:15 pm

the air one breathes is filled with myriads of constantly moving immeasurable molecules - pure chaos from moment to the next

if that chaotic entity was absent, one would certainly know it, albeit momentarily...

-Imp

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:25 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:15 pm
the air one breathes is filled with myriads of constantly moving immeasurable molecules - pure chaos from moment to the next

if that chaotic entity was absent, one would certainly know it, albeit momentarily...

-Imp
Yeah, point particles = atoms ...Lucretius: "The Nature of Things"

These points represent everything from your standard physical particle, to objects moving in a distance, with objects up close representing the same framework of under a different context of the object itself.

For example dots of light (planet) in the context of the night sky, dots at a distance (stones) in a field, the dot at a distance (grains) in the stone observe all distance is an observation of size with the context being some form of plane and a dot in a distance (point particle) observed within the context of the element as a plane.

This in turn observes the point particle acting as a field which contains the elements as point, with the element acting as a plane which compose the rock as a point, with the rock forming the plane where the planet is a point, with the planet acting as a plane where the sky is observed as a set of points.

The dots of planets, stones, grains exist as planets in a different respect and a point/plane dualism occurs.

The observer as composed of all of these phenomenon in turn is both a point of awareness and a boundless field do to the continuum of awareness grounded in the empty nature of though necessary for assumption to occur.

In these respects chaos, or formlessness under a perceivable multiplicity, necessitates the grounding of awareness itself. Much in the same manner the more axioms, points of reality, one is aware off effectively leads to a state of an obscure formless mass of information; the simple point when continually individuated effectively results in an infinite number of points that again resume a formless boundless plane.

This necessitates an inherent alternation not just within consciousness, under the nature of measurement as both one and many axioms as points of awareness (where awareness itself is a point), but with the nature of reality itself.

The continual alternation between the point and the boundless plane necessitates an inherent order where reality is grounded in movement. One state of being is directed to another and this direction is the form through which movement maintains its continuous nature.

One state to another, observed through time as time, is linear and exists as a process of defintion where each axiom as both a point of awareness and plane (conducive to an image). This represents the basic dualism or contradiction through heraclitian tension of opposites as being the source of movement.

This repetition of the state moving back to a variation of its original nature, maintains this original state thus necessitating a circle.

This occurs both in empirical reality and in consciousness, thus representing chaos or formlessness through an inherent multiplicity, as fundamentally being empirical and zietgiest "mass" as aristotelian potentiality through which order as a process of actualization (aristotle) as individuation (Jung) occurs.

Thus the grounding of chaos fundamentally occurs in the same forms which produce order and process of convergence and divergence as synthesis is the grounding of reality.

The subjective state, as both chaotic and formless, and the objective state, as both order and form, are fundamentally one and the same but manifest themselves assymetrical through the quantity and quality of the triad.

Systematic
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:32 am

Impenitent wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:15 pm
the air one breathes is filled with myriads of constantly moving immeasurable molecules - pure chaos from moment to the next

if that chaotic entity was absent, one would certainly know it, albeit momentarily...

-Imp
Lungs with circulating blood are the order that makes the chaotic air breathable.

Systematic
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Re: That which is chaotic cannot be known.

Post by Systematic » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:27 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm

Yes, you are absolutely correct about imperatives...or rather authority statements.

Take the fallacy of authority for example...this is an authority statement.

All philosophical argument, as an act of creation, is a statement of order where existence acts as it's own authoritative structure over the absence of being "void", by it's own nature. In these respects it takes on a Neitzchian expression of the will by form alone.

Platonic forms, observes the trillemic nature of all arguments, are inseparable from an irrational will with this irrationality being a synonym to "continuum" where all forms are irrational in the respect of this continuous nature is never fully define.

I may have to elaborate this point.
Order, including the forms, is arbitrary. But it seems better than chaos to have arbitrary order, arbitrarily fashioned to capacity. It's my opinion that capacity is better than incapacity. It's my opinion that it's rational. And it's my opinion that rationality is better than irrationality. If I be incorrect, then all who have obeyed will have wasted their own time. But destruction of capacity can be achieved using capacity. So it still seems the better wager to accomplish first. Certainly easier to eliminate than its opposite.

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