Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Sculptor
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:00 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:50 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:40 pm
I think you might want to direct your verbal diarrhoea at another person.
I apologise for trying to educate you.
I am well ahead of you.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am

Skepdick wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:54 am
I ask the question after 20 years of trying to answer it myself with my own studies. I give up, I can't answer it
Well, did you arrive at any wrong answers? How many?

You may not have answered the question, but did you make any progress that we need to know about?
Any work that you've left behind where we can pick up from?

What did you try?
What worked?
What didn't work?
Zero answers.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:55 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:58 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:31 am
The whole industry of Science itself does not know How to Begin Answering any question involving Conscious Experience.
That's because there is no one asking the question. If there was then it would also have the answer. Can't have a question without an answer, else the question wouldn't even arise, all questions arise based on the knowledge that is already available created by this false sense of separate self who invented it.

Only the sense of a separate self can ask questions, ...there is no such entity as a separate knowing entity except the belief via the thought there is...already couched within the consciousness you are that is all pervading as embodied awareness. There is an awareness of self as a conceptually known body, but there is no way awareness can experience itself as the concept self it is aware of...for there is no awareness in a concept to experience itself.

.
Hmm ... If there is only One Consciousness then I could see what you are saying.

Skepdick
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:18 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am
Skepdick wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:54 am
I ask the question after 20 years of trying to answer it myself with my own studies. I give up, I can't answer it
Well, did you arrive at any wrong answers? How many?

You may not have answered the question, but did you make any progress that we need to know about?
Any work that you've left behind where we can pick up from?

What did you try?
What worked?
What didn't work?
Zero answers.
Why didn't any of your attempts produce even a wrong answer?

SteveKlinko
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:52 pm
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:18 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am
Skepdick wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am

Well, did you arrive at any wrong answers? How many?

You may not have answered the question, but did you make any progress that we need to know about?
Any work that you've left behind where we can pick up from?

What did you try?
What worked?
What didn't work?
Zero answers.
Why didn't any of your attempts produce even a wrong answer?
ok I give up. The totality of my Arguments and Speculations about all this, and the Machine Consciousness Experiment that I have conducted, can be found at http://TheInterMind.com

Skepdick
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:01 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:58 pm
Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:18 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 am
Zero answers.
Why didn't any of your attempts produce even a wrong answer?
ok I give up. The totality of my Arguments and Speculations about all this, and the Machine Consciousness Experiment that I have conducted, can be found at http://TheInterMind.com
That's a lot of monologue.

Are you trying to tell me that the only attempt towards answering the question was to "thinking hard" about it?

Were you aware that philosophical methods (of the kind that you are using in your pursuit) have been shown to be ineffective for arriving at any 'truth' more than 300 years ago?

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:02 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:01 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:58 pm
Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:18 pm

Why didn't any of your attempts produce even a wrong answer?
ok I give up. The totality of my Arguments and Speculations about all this, and the Machine Consciousness Experiment that I have conducted, can be found at http://TheInterMind.com
That's a lot of monologue.

Are you trying to tell me that the only attempt towards answering the question was to "thinking hard" about it?

Were you aware that philosophical methods (of the kind that you are using in your pursuit) have been shown to be ineffective for arriving at any 'truth' more than 300 years ago?
I reject your Religious Belief using 300 year old logic that Truth cannot ultimately be attained.

Skepdick
Posts: 1472
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:14 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:02 pm
I reject your Religious Belief using 300 year old logic that Truth cannot ultimately be attained.
Nice deflection, but we aren't talking about Truth. We are talking about your ability to answer the question: What is consciousness?

I was asking you about any retrospective and introspective insights on why you've been unable to make any progress towards answering the question.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. And you do seem rather insane and dogmatic about your methodology. Despite its demonstrable failure.

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:55 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:14 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:02 pm
I reject your Religious Belief using 300 year old logic that Truth cannot ultimately be attained.
Nice deflection, but we aren't talking about Truth. We are talking about your ability to answer the question: What is consciousness?

I was asking you about any retrospective and introspective insights on why you've been unable to make any progress towards answering the question.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. And you do seem rather insane and dogmatic about your methodology. Despite its demonstrable failure.
The reason why I can't figure it out is that I'm not smart enough. But it appears that every Human on this planet is also not smart enough.

Skepdick
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:55 pm
The reason why I can't figure it out is that I'm not smart enough. But it appears that every Human on this planet is also not smart enough.
Your self-pitty is not really getting us any closer to an answer.
It only raises more questions: What does it mean to be smart?

And you are still going around in circles without providing any useful information here... you are no closer to telling us why all the answers we have so far are wrong. How do you know that the answer is wrong?

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:55 pm
The reason why I can't figure it out is that I'm not smart enough. But it appears that every Human on this planet is also not smart enough.
Your self-pitty is not really getting us any closer to an answer.
It only raises more questions: What does it mean to be smart?

And you are still going around in circles without providing any useful information here... you are no closer to telling us why all the answers we have so far are wrong. How do you know that the answer is wrong?
Let's just say that if everyone became Smarter then maybe someone would be able to answer the Question. In any case being Smart is not relevant to the Question: How does Neural Activity produce Conscious Experience?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:55 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:58 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:31 am
The whole industry of Science itself does not know How to Begin Answering any question involving Conscious Experience.
That's because there is no one asking the question. If there was then it would also have the answer. Can't have a question without an answer, else the question wouldn't even arise, all questions arise based on the knowledge that is already available created by this false sense of separate self who invented it.

Only the sense of a separate self can ask questions, ...there is no such entity as a separate knowing entity except the belief via the thought there is...already couched within the consciousness you are that is all pervading as embodied awareness. There is an awareness of self as a conceptually known body, but there is no way awareness can experience itself as the concept self it is aware of...for there is no awareness in a concept to experience itself.

.
Hmm ... If there is only One Consciousness then I could see what you are saying.
Consciousness is one, it’s not a matter of if..it IS

Skepdick
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:26 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm
Let's just say that if everyone became Smarter then maybe someone would be able to answer the Question.
It's not good enough to say it.

How would we assert whether we are, in fact, getting smarter?
How smart do we need to be in order to answer the question?
How would we know when the question is answered?

SteveKlinko
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:44 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:26 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm
Let's just say that if everyone became Smarter then maybe someone would be able to answer the Question.
It's not good enough to say it.

How would we assert whether we are, in fact, getting smarter?
How smart do we need to be in order to answer the question?
How would we know when the question is answered?
Ok here's one for you: What is the meaning of How and How can you come to understand the meaning of What.

Skepdick
Posts: 1472
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:57 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:44 pm
Ok here's one for you: What is the meaning of How and How can you come to understand the meaning of What.
Ohhhhh. I thought we are busy engaging in actual problem-solving. Turns out you've been engaging in sophistry.

I can play that game too...

Define "meaning".

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