Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Sculptor
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Sculptor »

Dubious wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:09 pm There can be no "proven purpose" to life.
Absolutely right especially the 'proven' part. There never was or will be a defined purpose to life as if there were some preexisting paradigm which envelops the living with a meaning external to themselves. There never was a manual or roadmap which defines the objectives of existence. Purpose like god always existed as OUR question and never as a response from a Source.

Therefore the best an agnostic can do regarding any perennial uncertainty is to say the glass remains half empty allowing the question to repeat itself in all of its historic formats by those to whom a proper Wittgensteinian silence was never an option.
Thank god there is one person on this fucking Forum that makes sense.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Walker

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:25 pm I made no claim
Funny. I could have sworn you said that you were certain there was "no proven purpose" to life.

But it seems you weren't so certain after all. And now you say you didn't say it at all.
You can fuck off like everyone else in the Forum of morons
I'm sorry your visit with us has been disappointing.

We wish you well.
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Sculptor
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Re: Walker

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:56 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:25 pm I made no claim
Funny. I could have sworn you said that you were certain there was "no proven purpose" to life.

But it seems you weren't so certain after all. And now you say you didn't say it at all.
You can fuck off like everyone else in the Forum of morons
I'm sorry your visit with us has been disappointing.

We wish you well.
I refuted a claim; I made no claim
Stop stalking me, you perv
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Lacewing
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Re: Immanuel Can

Post by Lacewing »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:21 pm To I.C.: Stop stalking me, you perv
:lol:

I.C. oozes a certain slimy goo that he not only swims in and coats everything with, but he is thoroughly intoxicated with it himself. He is his own god-like being, and seems to fantasize about others seeing him that way too. Instead, he simply serves as a warning for the rest of humankind.
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Sculptor
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Re: Immanuel Can

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:04 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:21 pm To I.C.: Stop stalking me, you perv
:lol:

I.C. oozes a certain slimy goo that he not only swims in and coats everything with, but he is thoroughly intoxicated with it himself. He is his own god-like being, and seems to fantasize about others seeing him that way too. Instead, he simply serves as a warning for the rest of humankind.
Gosh this is the second person today that makes some sense. I was about to leave. Might stay for the side show.
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Lacewing
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Re: Immanuel Can

Post by Lacewing »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:41 pm I was about to leave. Might stay for the side show.
Don't go! There may be a lot of absurdity to wade through, but it's valuable to have more people who challenge it and make fun of it. Who knew a philosophy forum could be so good for laughs?
surreptitious57
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by surreptitious57 »

There is no purpose to life because it is a purely mechanistic process. Human beings want there to be a purpose in order to validate their own
existence. But the Second Law Of Thermodynamics doesnt care about your feelings and will eventually kill you just like it kills everything else

We are no more special than any other life form is - we just think we are because we dont like death very much
In reality we are simply the descendants of three and a half billion year old bacteria and so are not special at all
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Lacewing
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Lacewing »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:14 pm We are no more special than any other life form .../... we are simply the descendants of three and a half billion year old bacteria
That's beautiful!

I suspect that "spirit" of some sort flows throughout all of the physical, but the physical forms that serve as vessels in all sorts of ways don't seem uniquely important by themselves.
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henry quirk
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"We are no more special than any other life form is"

Post by henry quirk »

I disagree, but am not inclined to dispute self-assessments. If you truly see yourself as no better than a :cat:, :dog:, or :cow:, I'm not gonna fight you on it.
Dubious
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:01 pmAwww....come on! You promised me "absolute proof."
How could I have promised you anything? My initial response was to sculptor.

This is what I wrote:
Absolutely right especially the 'proven' part. There never was or will be a defined purpose to life as if there were some preexisting paradigm which envelops the living with a meaning external to themselves. There never was a manual or roadmap which defines the objectives of existence. Purpose like god always existed as OUR question and never as a response from a Source.

Therefore the best an agnostic can do regarding any perennial uncertainty is to say the glass remains half empty allowing the question to repeat itself in all of its historic formats by those to whom a proper Wittgensteinian silence was never an option.

It remains “absolutely right” in the sense that nothing has been proven by way of Purpose and even less why there should even be one!

What has, in fact, been “proven” so far is that nothing in our existence has been shown to be commensurate to any such plan during the entire history of the human race.

As requested if you know something that others aren’t aware of or even provide a substantive reason why any kind of purpose should exist in our being here without necessarily naming what that purpose would be then please do so.

Unfortunately by your response not a single palpable reason or explanation was provided negating what so far – since humans have become conscious – has been unobtainable. If we can’t even provide a reason as to WHY something should be, how can we ever know what it is?

Not requiring as absurd as proof just a few “sustainable” reasons as to what Purpose there is to our existence aside from the ones WE create making it a psychological imperative rather than an actual one.

...but so far you’ve provided nada as always proving ONLY what you want to believe in which both logic and history offer unacceptable conclusions if they suborn your beliefs. Nothing new here!

If I’m wrong then why not gather your revelations and confute everything I and others have written abrogating Purpose as some extraneous construct serving humans? Go for it!

Until then our own consciousness must devise its own palliatives or simply give it no consideration at all, maintaining, as mentioned, a Wittgensteinian silence on the subject.

Our PURPOSE now, as I see it, is to continue living on the planet without forcing it to become our enemy...not to mention being an ABSOLUTE necessity allowing big brain philosophers such as thou to continue the saga what purpose there is or means to the human race.
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Lacewing
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Lacewing »

There are many religious teachings and stories that describe reincarnation as happening instantly in some cases. This would point to the potential of fetuses being vessels, if a soul/spirit could use them at the moment of birth.

Nature seems to show that there are an abundance of physical forms for spirit to inhabit and experience through... and if one physical form fades away, another arises. Whatever the amazing soul/spirit energy is that flows throughout and animates all... it does not have to be tied to a particular physical form.

So when such energy manifests through a human form, it seems melodramatic to apply such ego-centered, small-minded laws to it. Why not equally respect ALL that spirit flows through? Why not see ALL as divine in that way? And why not recognize that the divine isn't limited by human laws?
Last edited by Lacewing on Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dubious
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Re: "We are no more special than any other life form is"

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:41 pm I disagree, but am not inclined to dispute self-assessments. If you truly see yourself as no better than a :cat:, :dog:, or :cow:, I'm not gonna fight you on it.
That must be a relief to everyone!
Walker
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Re: Walker

Post by Walker »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:28 pm
Walker wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:09 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:59 pm You are insane.
There used to be a sculptor on the forum and in some ways you sound like him, in other ways you do not.

Because life is the measure, the purpose, and the meaning of existence then opposing life is insane although necessary* as proven by the fact of its existence. Therefore by this criterion and in the context of topic, abortion advocates are insane.

* as a result of causation
Where is your proof that life has a purpose what what is it?
Rather than reply with a “huh?” this question has been studied for possible meanings. Since your refusal to answer IC’s rather simple, direct, and honest questions have established a sliming precedence with approval, I too shall forego the answering of questions but without impotent bleating.

You misquoted, which means you’re either careless with your thoughts or devious, however a natural attraction to intellectually frustrated thread saboteurs would indicate the former is required for the latter.

Life is the purpose of existence, as originally stated, then subsequently misquoted.

The proof that the purpose of existence is life is the existence of life, which can only be proven to life by life. Death is the proof that death exists, however what dies? Life cannot die, that’s an oxymoron. The body dies, which raises the existential question answered by Sri Ramana Maharshi, are you exclusively this body that eventually dies?

Implication? Rocks and stars and such which are not alive, but also as much a part of the universe as humankind, have existence, have no life, and therefore have no inherent purpose although a human has the capacity to infer causation that feeds the inherent compulsion to make everything fit.

This is why an existing foetus certainly has an inherent purpose, the inherency made more obvious since the lil’ fetus person can’t yet delusionally report the news. That inherent purpose is to fulfill its stage of human development (life), which requires no thought, and naturally leads to the next stage of human development, and so on.
Walker
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Re: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?

Post by Walker »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:14 pm Whatever the amazing soul/spirit energy is that flows throughout and animates all... it does not have to be tied to a particular physical form.
Is that code for God?
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Sculptor
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Re: Walker

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:15 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:28 pm
Walker wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:09 pm
There used to be a sculptor on the forum and in some ways you sound like him, in other ways you do not.

Because life is the measure, the purpose, and the meaning of existence then opposing life is insane although necessary* as proven by the fact of its existence. Therefore by this criterion and in the context of topic, abortion advocates are insane.

* as a result of causation
Where is your proof that life has a purpose what what is it?
Rather than reply with a “huh?” this question has been studied for possible meanings. Since your refusal to answer IC’s rather simple, direct, and honest questions have established a sliming precedence with approval, I too shall forego the answering of questions but without impotent bleating.

You misquoted, which means you’re either careless with your thoughts or devious, however a natural attraction to intellectually frustrated thread saboteurs would indicate the former is required for the latter.

Life is the purpose of existence, as originally stated, then subsequently misquoted.

The proof that the purpose of existence is life is the existence of life, which can only be proven to life by life. Death is the proof that death exists, however what dies? Life cannot die, that’s an oxymoron. The body dies, which raises the existential question answered by Sri Ramana Maharshi, are you exclusively this body that eventually dies?

Implication? Rocks and stars and such which are not alive, but also as much a part of the universe as humankind, have existence, have no life, and therefore have no inherent purpose although a human has the capacity to infer causation that feeds the inherent compulsion to make everything fit.

This is why an existing foetus certainly has an inherent purpose, the inherency made more obvious since the lil’ fetus person can’t yet delusionally report the news. That inherent purpose is to fulfill its stage of human development (life), which requires no thought, and naturally leads to the next stage of human development, and so on.

Where is your proof that life has a purpose what what is it?
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