SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:11 pm
This is why I always say that Scientists are going to have to think in new ways to crack the Problem of Conscious Experience.
Have you ever heard the saying "Defining the problem is half the solution?"
I am not sure why conscious experience is a problem to you...
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:41 pm If I had any idea then I could not say that Science has Zero Understanding about Consciousness.
Steve, do you think that if Science could see Consciousness then maybe that might help them Understand what it is?
.
I have thought that Science will some day be able to measure actual Conscious Experience, not just the Neural Correlates of Experience. When Science can do that Science will not only be helped by that but Science will have unlocked the door to Consciousness. This is just Speculation but it is all we can do given the state of our understanding of Consciousness at this time.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:11 pm
I think that ultimately when Science itself develops further, that it will in the end discover the what ARE of everything.
2nd time now. Science never has and never will discover what things ARE.
Science only discovers how things behave/interact in relation to other things.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:11 pm
This is why I always say that Scientists are going to have to think in new ways to crack the Problem of Conscious Experience.
Have you ever heard the saying "Defining the problem is half the solution?"
I am not sure why conscious experience is a problem to you...
That is revealing. The fact that you don't think Conscious Experience is even a Problem must mean that you are a Physicalist/Materialist.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:11 pm
I think that ultimately when Science itself develops further, that it will in the end discover the what ARE of everything.
2nd time now. Science never has and never will discover what things ARE.
Science only discovers how things behave/interact in relation to other things.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:25 pm
That is revealing. The fact that you don't think Conscious Experience is even a Problem must mean that you are a Physicalist/Materialist.
Well, you asked "What is consciousness" and claimed that it is a problem, so I'll ask you a much much simpler question: What is a problem?
I don't label myself with any philosophical position in particular. To speak of one's beliefs is unempirical nonsense. Least you tell me how to test somebody's "physicalism/materialism".
It's even less useful than knowing your zodiac sign. At least that helps me approximate your birthday. Your philosophical position tells me fuckall about you.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:11 pm
I think that ultimately when Science itself develops further, that it will in the end discover the what ARE of everything.
2nd time now. Science never has and never will discover what things ARE.
Science only discovers how things behave/interact in relation to other things.
I release Science from that Box.
Yet you offer nothing better as a way of learning about the world?
Like I said: you want answers, but you have no strategy, or even a vaguest of ideas on how to get them.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:41 pm If I had any idea then I could not say that Science has Zero Understanding about Consciousness.
Steve, do you think that if Science could see Consciousness then maybe that might help them Understand what it is?
.
I have thought that Science will some day be able to measure actual Conscious Experience, not just the Neural Correlates of Experience. When Science can do that Science will not only be helped by that but Science will have unlocked the door to Consciousness. This is just Speculation but it is all we can do given the state of our understanding of Consciousness at this time.
What about Consciousness, can Science see it..to then known exactly what it is they are measuring?
What I mean is, can Science know what anything is unless they've first seen / or looked at it?
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:17 pm
Ok, so what KNOWS the phenomenon labeled ''Consciousness''?
42.
The first problem of "consciousness" (as far as I can tell) is to determine whether it's an actual phenomenon, or if it's just a linguistic artefact.
The simplest thought experiment goes like this: Suppose that consciousness does exist, what change do you expect to observe in the universe if consciousness suddenly disappeared?
Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:35 pm
In other words no science, no number system, no classification system could have told Mary what Red LOOKS LIKE, until she saw it with her own eyes.
Non-sequitur.
I think you might want to look up the meaning of this phrase and understand it if you want me to take you seriously.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:37 pm
I think you might want to look up the meaning of this phrase and understand it if you want me to take you seriously.
If you want to be taken seriously, you ought to re-examine why that phrase was on-point.
The simplest thought experiment goes like this: Suppose that consciousness does exist, what change do you expect to observe in the universe if consciousness suddenly disappeared?
But to assume consciousness can disappear or exist ..the ''thought'' (consciousness) must first be known.
So now we have a ''thought'' the ''thought of consciousness''
Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:37 pm
I think you might want to look up the meaning of this phrase and understand it if you want me to take you seriously.
If you want to be taken seriously, you ought to re-examine why that phrase was on-point.
