Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:10 am

Steve..what about this idea....There isn't even any colour separate from it's source which is invisible pure transparent white light...(source unknown)

Colour is an optical illusion..a mirage appearance of invisible transparent LIGHT. Colour can only owe it's existence to PURE WHITE LIGHT
Colour has no existence in and of itself, it's made of it's source, aka INVISIBLE WHITE LIGHT.

In being invisible is how I am able to see ..via constrast...as and through an object known/seen...aka (mind/body mechanism) aka (duality) which is a mirage appearance within source itself aka Invisible Light (source unknown)

I or light is just another concept for Consciousness.

In being invisible is how Consciousness is able to see ..via contrast...as and through an object known/seen...aka (mind/body mechanism) aka (duality) which is a mirage appearance within Invisible Light (source unknown)

There is no centre of Consciousness that can be located as in being lots of locatable individual little consciousnesses..because it's invisible, it's everywhere all at once... like light.

The seen Steve, cannot and does not and has never existed separate from the seer. The seer is not the object it sees, the object is only KNOWN to the seer via contrast...the seer which cannot be seen by the object it sees... for the object is being seen, and that which is seen cannot itself see...for objects do not exist as separate things in and of themselves, they owe their illusory existence to the light only, the seen is an optical illusion of the only seer there is which is invisible LIGHT.



No Consciousness sees or knows LIGHT. IT IS the LIGHT...seeing and knowing itself objectively as and through colour. There is no colour aka contrast without the backlight of light itself aka the source of all colour...giving colour it's identity, as an illusory appearance of invisible white light...via the contrast.

In the absence of colour there is blackness, but even blackness is only possible because of LIGHT, light being the shadow castor.

The LIGHT that casts no shadow ON ITSELF...is the castor of all shadows...aka colour / including black.

.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by I Like Sushu » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 am

Don -

How not to use language:
Colour is an optical illusion.
A rainbow is an optical illusion, colour isn’t an ‘illusion’. These terms actually have technical meaning and use. The rest of what you wrote is merely drivel, or at best poetical/mystical jargon.

It would be dishonest of me not to point this out to anyine seduced by your whimsical use of terminology.

Reading the Tao Te Ching, the I Ching and/or The Analects doesn’t make you a wise sage. If that is something you’d like to talk about I’d be interested. The Tao Te Ching is an excellent text and worthy of scholarly study - there are dozens of different translations so don’t get caught up in whatever copy you own as the singular source of interpretation.

Note: I mean to sound harsh here. It’s worth reiterating what I’ve said elsewhere in the context of this thread though so you can analyse your own words at your own leisure - if you have the intention of expressing your thoughts moe clearly rather than relying on hidden analogies and wordplay.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:36 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 am
How not to use language.
A guide for linguistic prescriptivists? ;)

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:01 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 am

It would be dishonest of me not to point this out to anyine seduced by your whimsical use of terminology.

All terminology is an audible optical illusion of sound and light...source unknown.

There is no such thing as a rainbow, it's an artificially contructed image of the imagless, it's a concept known by consciousness the only knowing there is ..source unknown.

No one cares about empty principles anymore, get with the actual programme,to see there is no event happening at all in the programme itself just as there is no food inside the menu.

Do continue with arguing against the illusion that there is a ''someone'' living and knowing life, for that's all that is known.

.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:06 am

Skepdick wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:36 am
I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 am
How not to use language.
A guide for linguistic prescriptivists? ;)
Description is not the prescription.

No word can describe what IS..or..every word describes it.

There is no cure for insanity, there is no prescription in a prescription.

There is no insanity in the word insanity.

Bump!!!

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:09 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:06 am
Description is not the prescription.

No word can describe what IS..or..every word describes it.
I am not in the habit of describing what IS.

I am in the habit of describing what happens.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by I Like Sushu » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:12 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:01 am
I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:22 am

It would be dishonest of me not to point this out to anyine seduced by your whimsical use of terminology.

All terminology is an audible optical illusion of sound and light...source unknown.

There is no such thing as a rainbow, it's an artificially contructed image of the imagless, it's a concept known by consciousness the only knowing there is ..source unknown.

No one cares about empty principles anymore, get with the actual programme,to see there is no event happening at all in the programme itself just as there is no food inside the menu.

Do continue with arguing against the illusion that there is a ''someone'' living and knowing life, for that's all that is known.

.
Or, just maybe, buy a dictionary and look up ‘illusion’ - if all is an illusion then the term ‘illusion’ is ...? I guess you’d say “it’s an illusion” and perch yourself on a self-fashioned pedestal with a smug, know-it-all smile painted across your face.

You’ve used up my patience at least. The offer to discuss Tao Te Ching and such is still open though, just make the thread in ‘general philosophy’ I guess?

Until then ...

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:49 am

Skepdick wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:09 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:06 am
Description is not the prescription.

No word can describe what IS..or..every word describes it.
I am not in the habit of describing what IS.

I am in the habit of describing what happens.
Same thing.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:15 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:12 am

Or, just maybe, buy a dictionary and look up ‘illusion’ - if all is an illusion then the term ‘illusion’ is ...? I guess you’d say “it’s an illusion” and perch yourself on a self-fashioned pedestal with a smug, know-it-all smile painted across your face.
No it's not like that at all, like I said before to you... this discussion is all just free expression coming straight from the sources mouth itself, there is no actual script writer here...although many authors appear to be pouring straight out like an arrow from the great big inky deep itself...there is no actual script writer...the only script being written is what's pouring out of the void right now in realtime....there is no dress rehearsal, this is going live right here and now nowhere, ad-libbing is the only reality happening here, it's the voice of silence itself...The voice of the voiceless...

Care or care not about it, it's no skin of my nose..I simply do not depend on the opinions of others to be who I am. I'm freedom expressing itself in the form of words...I know there is nothing in the word, and nothing reading the nothing in the word...my definition of illusion is the illusion of knowledge being known by a ''someone''...this is the illusion ...in that IT aka knowledge IT is not some-thing to be known by someone. IT is the knowing that cannot be known. In essence you are that Knowing. All I know is I know nothing at all. It that being smug? who is being smug?
I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:12 am
You’ve used up my patience at least. The offer to discuss Tao Te Ching and such is still open though, just make the thread in ‘general philosophy’ I guess?

Until then ...
Your impatience to be patience is of no concern to me...continue to discuss Tao Te Ching one of the many branches of knowledge written and read by no one with me any time you like, there is nothing stopping you or me from listening to the sound of our own silence.



.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by I Like Sushu » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:34 am

You’ll now have the full force of my silence then :D

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:38 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:38 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:59 pm
There will be a band of wavelengths that have the basic Redness property.
Isn't that the fundamental problem? Where does the band start? Where does it end?

Without looking at the source code can you tell me which of these DOES NOT have the "redness" property you speak of?

███████████████████████████████████████

How about this?

███████████████████████████████████████

And this?

███████████████████████████████████████

what about this?

███████████████████████████████████████

This?

███████████████████████████████████████

And finally this?

███████████████████████████████████████
From my Experience of the Colors I would say that the first two look more like pure Red than the last four. I can see that you are just attenuating the Red component in each of the bands without mixing in any other Colors. There's no argument that you can make all kinds of Colors by varying the components. What you See is also highly dependent on the quality of your Monitor and Video Card. But the question is, regardless of which Band you are looking at: How does your Conscious Mind let you See that Color? Also, what are these Colors as things in themselves? Don't get distracted by the numbers just concentrate on the Colors themselves as Phenomena that exist somehow in the Universe we live in. These Color Band Phenomena may exist only in our Conscious Minds and not in the Physical Universe, but they somehow do exist and must be Explained.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:40 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:04 pm
By No Thing I assume you mean Consciousness is not a Physical Thing in the Physical World of Things. Consciousness is Not Matter, and Not Energy, and Not Space. I think that Consciousness might very well be a No Thing but I don't know if it is the only No Thing.
Of course it's the only No Thing.

What other No thing is known?


Where does my consciousness end and yours begin? ..you exist only because I exist, I exist only because you exist. You are my mirror and I am your mirror. Consciousness is a two way mirror reflecting the unknown no thing into a thing known.


“I am not what I think I am. I am not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am.”
We don't know enough about the Universe yet to be able to confidently say there are no other Not Things.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by SteveKlinko » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:51 pm

I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:00 am
Steve -

In reply to your last question ... NO. Or maybe you meant something different? I don’t know because you don’t, and haven’t, made yourself explicit enough. I’m only willing to guess so much.

If you don’t see that the concepts of ‘redness’ and ‘number/ness’ are ‘objects’ - in Husserlian terms - you don’t understand the point of the phenomenological investigation.

To add, you keep talking about ‘wavelengths’ yet these are ‘physical objects’ so you’re setting out the stall of ‘redness’ as both abstract and physical giving yourself an easy way to argue against any attempt to be nailed down. Either ‘redness’ is the wavelength or it isn’t. If it isn’t then does that mean red light isn’t red? See the issue here?
Red Electromagnetic Light has many Properties and one of them is Wavelength. However, Red Electromagnetic Light has no Property of Redness. The Redness is a creation of the Brain/Mind mechanism. The Brain/Mind mechanism presents the Redness Experience to us as a Surrogate for the Red Electromagnetic Light so that we can Detect the Red Electromagnetic Light.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:05 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:51 pm
Red Electromagnetic Light has many Properties and one of them is Wavelength. However, Red Electromagnetic Light has no Property of Redness. The Redness is a creation of the Brain/Mind mechanism. The Brain/Mind mechanism presents the Redness Experience to us as a Surrogate for the Red Electromagnetic Light so that we can Detect the Red Electromagnetic Light.
Steve, which wavelength is 'The Red Electromagnetic Light'?

You continue to ignore the fact that your mind associates a plethora of wavelengths with the experience of 'Redness'.

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Re: Insane Denial Of Conscious Experience

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:14 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:38 pm
What you See is also highly dependent on the quality of your Monitor and Video Card. But the question is, regardless of which Band you are looking at: How does your Conscious Mind let you See that Color? Also, what are these Colors as things in themselves? Don't get distracted by the numbers just concentrate on the Colors themselves as Phenomena that exist somehow in the Universe we live in. These Color Band Phenomena may exist only in our Conscious Minds and not in the Physical Universe, but they somehow do exist and must be Explained.
There is a circularity in your way of reasoning. I don't think I can help you out of it.

The question that you need to focus on (that you have dismissed) is this: How many colors can you see?

It is THE most important question because it explains how your mind quantizes light waves.
Last edited by Skepdick on Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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