The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

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commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:04 pm
roydop wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:04 pm
If one were to produce the simplest model of the process of evolution, what would that be? ...
Darwin's.

But knock yourself out, https://www.slideshare.net/fer.reche/ma ... -evolution
Good answer. Darwin’s model is complete, accurate, elegant and robust.

However, not quite the right answer: I think most would not say it’s simple.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:37 am

commonsense wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:04 pm
roydop wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:04 pm
If one were to produce the simplest model of the process of evolution, what would that be? ...
Darwin's.

But knock yourself out, https://www.slideshare.net/fer.reche/ma ... -evolution
Is it possible to view the slides with English subtitles?
This is not my post. I had no trouble viewing the slides and had no need for subtitles. You may be able to surmise who is the author of the question about subtitles by looking at other posts about the slideshow.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:40 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:47 pm
commonsense wrote: Is it possible to view the slides with English subtitles?
Not sure what you mean? If I click on the slide show I see mathematical equations with English titles.
The quoted question is not mine.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:43 am

commonsense wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:57 pm
Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:47 pm
commonsense wrote: Is it possible to view the slides with English subtitles?
Not sure what you mean? If I click on the slide show I see mathematical equations with English titles.
Oh. I cannot run the slideshow at present. I assumed it would be labeled in the same language that appears on the launch page. I'll try dropping my firewall.
THE ABOVE IS NOT MY POST.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:44 am

commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 am
roydop wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:33 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:51 pm


Yeah, you are on track, I will create a thread on this. All evolution is: "variation" which occurs through all linearly observed phenomena where in progressing past there origins (ie the number line in this case) and inherent "multiplicity" occurs.
Sounds like you know what you're talking about. I have been waiting for someone to validate and confirm this for a long time. Even my good friend, who has a PhD (literally) in biology wouldn't confirm this for me. Maybe because I laid out the whole wacky theory at once and she didn't want to give me a starting point.

I need this confirmed, as a large part of my theory is based on the premise that 1-9 could be interpreted as a model of evolution. Even better if it were to be proved that it is the simplest model possible of the process of evolution. I intuit it is. One that could be still interpreted by a certain level of sentience as relating to evolution.
At first I concurred with the foregoing. Then I fretted that we may have stopped short of the model we sought.

The number system may be too simple to be a model that represents evolution. Are we accounting for the attributes of 1 that are of sufficient value to be retained by 2 in the process of evolution?

Are you thinking that I am mucking up a simple but adequate model? I’d say that the number line merely shows a progression—an ordered one at that. Where is the random incidence of attributes that are beneficial to survival? Shouldn’t our model be simple but not incomplete in its representation?

Instead of a given number progressing into a different number, I propose that a number must change into another version of itself.

Without any claim to have produced the best simplest model of evolution, I would rather make use of the assignment operator ( = ) from coding languages:

x = x + n where x and n are any numbers > 0

This model allows us to select any genetic parent ( x ) to produce a randomly new genetic offspring ( x + n ). This model is also fairly simple.

But I am only guessing at this. Surely there are problems I’ overlooked. Can you delineate these problems for me?
Yes, these are my thoughts.

wtf
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by wtf » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:36 am

commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 am
Good answer. Darwin’s model is complete, accurate, elegant and robust.
This thread seems to have drifted from computational complexity. But on the subject of evolution, my understanding -- and I'm no biologist -- is that Darwin's theory is no longer considered correct or complete; and that modern evolutionary theory is somewhat different. Is that correct?

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:38 pm

wtf wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:36 am
commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 am
Good answer. Darwin’s model is complete, accurate, elegant and robust.
This thread seems to have drifted from computational complexity. But on the subject of evolution, my understanding -- and I'm no biologist -- is that Darwin's theory is no longer considered correct or complete; and that modern evolutionary theory is somewhat different. Is that correct?
On my behalf (and that of Arising), let me say: oops.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:42 pm

Computational complexity? Wasn’t that discussed and dismissed in the thread on complexity theory?

Skepdick
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by Skepdick » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:04 pm

commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:42 pm
Computational complexity? Wasn’t that discussed and dismissed in the thread on complexity theory?
It's the same topic.

Any 'game' which can be conceptualised as rule-based iterations is subject to computational complexity.

And you can measure various aspects of the execution of evolutionary algorithms to make real-world predictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computati ... ry_biology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_algorithm
Last edited by Skepdick on Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wtf
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by wtf » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:27 pm

commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:42 pm
Computational complexity? Wasn’t that discussed and dismissed in the thread on complexity theory?
Oh sorry, wrong thread. Still, isn't it the case that modern evolutionary theory is somewhat different than Darwin's original formulation?

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Sculptor
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:01 pm

roydop wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:04 pm
If one were to produce the simplest model of the process of evolution, what would that be?

Would it not be the number system?

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

Each progressive number arises from the "base" provided by the previous numbers, just as the emergence of a new species arises from the base of the source species, all the way back.

There is a tendency to overthink/overcomplicate this. Remember, the query is: What is the simplest model of the process of evolution?
What do the numbers mean?

The simplest model of evolution is more like survival means persistence. Which says much more than a string of integers, which, in this case means nothing whatever.

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Sculptor
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by Sculptor » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:13 pm

wtf wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:36 am
-- is that Darwin's theory is no longer considered correct or complete; and that modern evolutionary theory is somewhat different. Is that correct?
Parts of Darwin's original construction such as pangenesis through gemmules was abandoned before he died.
But his central plank of Darwin's evolutionary theory, natural selection, remains the central plank of all evolutionary theory. The rest are embellishments and footnotes.

commonsense
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:12 pm

wtf wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:27 pm
commonsense wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:42 pm
Computational complexity? Wasn’t that discussed and dismissed in the thread on complexity theory?
Oh sorry, wrong thread. Still, isn't it the case that modern evolutionary theory is somewhat different than Darwin's original formulation?
Yes. It is my understanding that modern evolutionary theory incorporates natural selection, population mathematics, genetic evolution and more into a synchronous theory. However, my limited understanding has already proved it self wrong.

Skepdick
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by Skepdick » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:01 pm
The simplest model of evolution is more like survival means persistence.
Survival has a non-trivial amount of chance involved.

The animal that persisted to learn swimming survived the flood.
The animal that persisted to cooperate, whilst planning to learn to swim next week... didn't.

The animals that possessed 'just the right' traits to survive selection is more apt.

It's trivially why the Lindy effect is a good heuristic. Something that has survived entropy for so long, has developed an immunity to the dice of natural selection. Jellyfish... learn from them.

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Sculptor
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Re: The Number System as a Model of The Process of Evolution

Post by Sculptor » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:16 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 pm
Sculptor wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:01 pm
The simplest model of evolution is more like survival means persistence.
Survival has a non-trivial amount of chance involved.

The animal that persisted to learn swimming survived the flood.
The animal that persisted to cooperate, whilst planning to learn to swim next week... didn't.

The animals that possessed 'just the right' traits to survive selection is more apt.

It's trivially why the Lindy effect is a good heuristic. Something that has survived entropy for so long, has developed an immunity to the dice of natural selection. Jellyfish... learn from them.
Evolution has nothing to do with chance.

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