All religion begins with this notion:

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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HexHammer
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by HexHammer » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:11 pm

-1- wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:09 pm
This is just another, simpler but equally precise, perhaps even poetic, way of describing the notion that religions begin with.
Ok you say religion is nonsense, which I may agree with some of the way, but do you have proof that there are no god?

The prophecies seems very real to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH6Qu-UtV8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoul4k8XNeg

I Like Sushu
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by I Like Sushu » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:19 am

osgart wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Something that has meaningful coherency is intended and purposed to function for a reason.

The existence of a written letter 'A' demands meaningful coherency to exist and that demands human agency.

So too, the existence of organized life demands meaningful coherency and that demands intentional agency likewise.

I, a human life form, am analogous to the writing of the letter 'A'. The human form expresses intentionality in its construction, and purposes specific to its cause.

Meaningful Sense does not come from nonsense.

Therefore consciousness is in fact fundamental.

If consciousness is fundamental then an eternal source of it exists because meaningful coherence cannot come from incoherence, nor can it come from nonsense.
What do you make of Geertz’s definition of “religion”?

osgart
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by osgart » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:45 pm

I Like Sushu wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:19 am
osgart wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Something that has meaningful coherency is intended and purposed to function for a reason.

The existence of a written letter 'A' demands meaningful coherency to exist and that demands human agency.

So too, the existence of organized life demands meaningful coherency and that demands intentional agency likewise.

I, a human life form, am analogous to the writing of the letter 'A'. The human form expresses intentionality in its construction, and purposes specific to its cause.

Meaningful Sense does not come from nonsense.

Therefore consciousness is in fact fundamental.

If consciousness is fundamental then an eternal source of it exists because meaningful coherence cannot come from incoherence, nor can it come from nonsense.
What do you make of Geertz’s definition of “religion”?
His definition of Religion is one that makes religion out to be dishonest manipulation using facts that create a seem of reality, so as to control people i would say.

All i am saying is that many religious people sincerely hold to their convictions for honest reasons. They may or may not be deluded.

Both cases obviously happen.

Its all philosophical presupposition to me whether it be religion or naturalism.

My stance is that nothing is proven or disproven about whether or not there is an intelligent agent who creates life.

For me an intelligent agent is a far cry from there being a God. How has anybody tested for intelligence in nature? Its simply ridiculed and ignored without any such tests.

I Like Sushu
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by I Like Sushu » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:11 am

Osgart -

His definition can be applied to “money” or “language” too if you look closely. Generally I view it as a definition of human nature. He does write several pages of explanation. He doesn’t mention ‘controlling people’ anywhere in his book as far as I remember.

Anyway, how about Eliade? The Sacred and The Profane is a great book. I really like the use of the term “hierophant” to talk of the interaction of humans with the material world and how it relates to the cosmological view of the universe.

osgart
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by osgart » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:11 am
Osgart -

His definition can be applied to “money” or “language” too if you look closely. Generally I view it as a definition of human nature. He does write several pages of explanation. He doesn’t mention ‘controlling people’ anywhere in his book as far as I remember.

Anyway, how about Eliade? The Sacred and The Profane is a great book. I really like the use of the term “hierophant” to talk of the interaction of humans with the material world and how it relates to the cosmological view of the universe.
Sounds like an interesting book contrasting the religious experience with that of the non religious. Perhaps it seeks to understand the motives, and behaviours of religious people. The mystical experience can be quite powerful. The sacredness of certain spaces and places can hold special subjective meanings. And the profane is to not consider anything sacred i gather. Non religious people have mystical experiences too though.

My interest in it would be , what reasons and convictions lead a religious person to the pursuit of sacredness?

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-1-
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by -1- » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:48 am

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:11 pm
-1- wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:09 pm
This is just another, simpler but equally precise, perhaps even poetic, way of describing the notion that religions begin with.
Ok you say religion is nonsense, which I may agree with some of the way, but do you have proof that there are no god?

The prophecies seems very real to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH6Qu-UtV8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoul4k8XNeg
I have no proof that there are gods or not. Impossible to prove either way.

No evidence of god(s) have been found in recent times. The records of old are unreliable, and a question of faith, not of proof.

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HexHammer
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by HexHammer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:41 am

-1- wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:48 am
I have no proof that there are gods or not. Impossible to prove either way.

No evidence of god(s) have been found in recent times. The records of old are unreliable, and a question of faith, not of proof.
Contrary to science, a prophet hat to prove his worth with more reliable methods by foretelling the future with high success rate, else he will be stoned.

gaffo
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Re: All religion begins with this notion:

Post by gaffo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:17 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:21 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:57 am
osgart wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:01 pm

If consciousness is fundamental then an eternal source of it exists
not if you are a Solipsist.
Or did you mean to say, "...if I'm a solipsist!" :lol:
Yes! thanks for the correction!

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