Univalence wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 7:45 pm
Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 6:01 pm
Your kidneys example illustrates my point.
They don't illustrate your point.
They illustrate my point.
Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 6:01 pm
The fact that people do have kidneys (or at least one) means that what they believe or claim to know about their possession of at least one kidney has no bearing on the truth of the assertion 'people have at least one kidney'. There is a fact of the matter, because there is a feature of reality.
PRECISELY!!!
The fact that people do have morality means that what they believe or claim to know about their possession of morality has no bearing on the truth of the assertion 'people have morality'. There is a fact of the matter, because there is a feature of reality.
Hence. Morality is objective. Like kidneys.
Please have a good think about these factual assertions. Does any of them strike you as odd?
1 (Most) people have at least one kidney.
2 (Most) people have morality.
3 Kidneys are objective.
4 Morality is objective.
Now please have a good think about these questions.
5 Is having a kidney the same as having morality? (Or a cold, or a mortgage, or doubts?) (I assume you know what a category error is.)
6 Can a real thing, such as a kidney, be objective? What does that mean? Does it just mean that a kidney is a real thing?
7 Does 'having morality' mean having certain moral opinions and not other moral opinions? Or does it just mean 'having moral opinions'?
Now, as I've asked before, stop substituting 'people have morality' for 'murder is wrong', which is the moot question here. Though it needs clarification, I''ll accept '(most) people have morality' as a true factual assertion - which is a fact. The claim that I reject this is a straw man.
Now please have a good think about these assertions. (In them, 'right' and 'wrong' mean 'morally right or wrong'.)
8 If people believe murder is wrong, then murder is wrong: the assertion 'murder is wrong' is a fact.
9 If people believe capital punishment is right, then capital punishment is right: the assertion 'capital punishment is right' is a fact.
10 If people believe homosexuality is wrong, then homosexuality is wrong: the assertion 'homosexuality is wrong' is a fact.
11 If people believe eating animals is right, then eating animal is right: the assertion 'eating animal is right' is a fact.
Do you agree with all of these assertions? If so, do you think that what people believe is morally right or wrong is factually morally right or wrong?