Karl Marx: Man & Mind

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Philosophy Now
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Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Philosophy Now » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:26 pm

Matt Qvortrup argues that Marx still inspires those longing for a better world.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/131/Karl_Marx_Man_and_Mind

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henry quirk
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"In the beginning was the word, and Marx had a way with them like no other."

Post by henry quirk » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:50 pm

Saint Max was better (in every way [and Marx knew it]).

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Tue May 07, 2019 4:02 am

Marx's :"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!” is not a blueprint for utopia... it is a recipe for tyranny.

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henry quirk
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"it is a recipe for tyranny"

Post by henry quirk » Tue May 07, 2019 2:43 pm

Absolutely.

Lots of ways to climb down into that pit, but the surest way to simply 'fall' is to seriously take anything Marx offered.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Arising_uk » Thu May 09, 2019 9:26 pm

A_Seagull wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:02 am
Marx's :"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!” is not a blueprint for utopia... it is a recipe for tyranny.
Not really as this was the blueprint.

"In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labour, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labour, has vanished; after labour has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"

And the idea was not really Marx's, Becker said it in 1844, Blanc in 1851,
Morelly in 1755,

"I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.
II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.
III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.".

Even the Bible gets in on the act,

"Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Thu May 09, 2019 9:54 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:26 pm
A_Seagull wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:02 am
Marx's :"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!” is not a blueprint for utopia... it is a recipe for tyranny.
Not really as this was the blueprint.

"In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labour, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labour, has vanished; after labour has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"

And the idea was not really Marx's, Becker said it in 1844, Blanc in 1851,
Morelly in 1755,

"I. Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as capital goods, except the things for which the person has immediate use, for either his needs, his pleasures, or his daily work.
II. Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.
III. Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.".

Even the Bible gets in on the act,

"Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."
And who will make the decisions in this communist utopia? The charlatans, the liars , the cheats and the tyrants.

Like I said,, it is a recipe for tyranny.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Arising_uk » Thu May 09, 2019 11:52 pm

A_Seagull wrote: And who will make the decisions in this communist utopia? The charlatans, the liars , the cheats and the tyrants.
Why would there be someone other than each individual making the decision of whom to co-operate with in such a system? Communism in such a model is pretty close to libertarianism without the profit motive.
Like I said,, it is a recipe for tyranny.
How so?

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henry quirk
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A_uk, there ain't nuthin' libertarian about this...

Post by henry quirk » Fri May 10, 2019 1:28 am

Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.

...or this...

Every citizen will be a public man, sustained by, supported by, and occupied at the public expense.

Oh, there's some left-libertarian strains that might think that's all peachy, but -- like antifa 'anarchists' -- they're just commies in drag.

#

"profit motive"

A glorious thing: individual self-interest.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Fri May 10, 2019 4:58 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:52 pm
A_Seagull wrote: And who will make the decisions in this communist utopia? The charlatans, the liars , the cheats and the tyrants.
Why would there be someone other than each individual making the decision of whom to co-operate with in such a system? Communism in such a model is pretty close to libertarianism without the profit motive.
Like I said,, it is a recipe for tyranny.
How so?
If each individual makes their decisions for themselves, then you have democracy and not communism.

And : :"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' .. would not apply.

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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Impenitent » Fri May 10, 2019 11:02 pm

No, If each individual makes their decisions for themselves, then you have individual autonomy and not democracy.

if the majority enforces their "collective" will on you, you have democracy

-Imp

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Sat May 11, 2019 4:32 am

Impenitent wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:02 pm
No, If each individual makes their decisions for themselves, then you have individual autonomy and not democracy.

if the majority enforces their "collective" will on you, you have democracy

-Imp
People can choose have to have a collective authority. Especially if they have a degree of control over it.

Impenitent
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Impenitent » Sun May 12, 2019 10:07 pm

we voted, you're our slave

democracy

-Imp

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Sun May 12, 2019 10:13 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:07 pm
we voted, you're our slave

democracy

-Imp
No you didn't!!

Impenitent
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by Impenitent » Sun May 12, 2019 10:40 pm

yes we did. we voted, your stuff is now community stuff- especially your money

-Imp

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A_Seagull
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Re: Karl Marx: Man & Mind

Post by A_Seagull » Mon May 13, 2019 12:21 am

Impenitent wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:40 pm
yes we did. we voted, your stuff is now community stuff- especially your money

-Imp
Only in your dreams.

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